Alright, so I've read up on Syllo's check on me, and I have to conclude that I was bus-driven with a scum player who actually was targeting djodref. I didn't get a roleblock notification, I was told that my action did not succeed because phagga's rolename was not Golem.
Guys, think about this for a minute before you do something you'll all regret. Right now you're lynching me because of Syllo's investigation, but you have to admit that I was the obvious target for framing, bus driving, and other anti-investigation roles.
Other than that, the main reason for lynching me is that "my role doesn't seem like a normal town role." I agree with that, but that doesn't indicate anything about my alignment - this is a greymist game, that's the kind of thing he delights in.
So please, if someone wants to actually make a case on me based around my filter, do so - but maybe if no one can do that you guys will take the hint and figure out that i'm town.
On December 03 2012 16:54 syllogism wrote: That's why I'm waiting until S&B flips because people who he has allegedly targeted have experienced some weird things (Oats not receiving a heal and now something messing with you).
good point.
SnB, anything else you wanna claim about your ability? Besides the fact that you attacked me with it like an idiot. Let me be clear, without any other aspect of your claim to explain what is happening to your targets I will vote you.
I thought I was healing you. We've been over this already. I admit I failed when I didn't figure out how my role actually works, but I never have told you anything but the truth.
On November 29 2012 22:12 strongandbig wrote: I decided to put this in a separate post, it's my take on the goodkarma case that promethelax put out. I think goodkarma definitely is the right person to be scrutinizing right now given how the party turned out. Since acro and keir were in the party, its failure doesn't automatically make goodkarma scum; but it should put him right under the microscope.
On November 29 2012 12:43 iamperfection wrote: also i think proms case is very strong and coupled with the fact of the mission failure and his shit lurker shoot list i think gk is scum
this is a pretty good summary, the case is good even without taking the mission failure into account.
I don't like GK's response to a few points in the case. I'm not going to quote the whole back-and-forth here, because I really don't have time to dig through the quote nesting. I'll just post what I don't like about the response:
I think he's ignoring the part where he told people not to setup speculate, and then later ignored his own advice. It's not that setup speculation is inherently scummy in a closed setup like this, but giving global advice at the start of the game is an easy way to make yourself look townie and scum like to do it; but if a townie gives this kind of advice it's because they really believe it, whereas scum don't and are therefore much more likely to ignore their own advice later when the thread sentiment moves in that direction.
GK claims there is a town motivation for asking in the thread whether party members are kill immune. I agree that there is a motivation for asking what happens if a party member is killed but asking whether the party members can be killed is information that only helps scum imo.
I also don't like how gk is insisting that "not shooting toad" would've been a better move for town. toad could easily be lying about being bulletproof, occam's razor says he most likely is, and if we'd been able to take toad down with vigshots we could've used today's lynch to much better effect.
On the other hand, I don't think the phagga association thing is a big deal even if GK is scum, I could see a scum easily doing that with a townie (since they know their read will be right).
On November 29 2012 13:59 Promethelax wrote: Okay, you've replied. I've explained my points. I'm going to stop helping you shit up the thread now.
Other players: I'd like your comments on GK's claim and what that does/doesn't do to exonerate him. I'd also like those of you who haven't weighed in on it yet to tell me what you think of him from my case.
This is an interesting point. I'm inclined to believe that GK did actually shoot drazerk, it seems unlikely that scum would claim this and then just shout "what now counterclaim me bro". (or if GK is scum, it could've been anyone on the scum team.)
From the early damage reports, it seems possible that the scum team was spreading their kp around pretty liberally, and given drazerk's claimed abilities it's possible they put some of it on him if they thought he was sk. Alternatively, it's possible that GK has a vig-ish role and chose town targets that looked scummy to set up a fakeclaim, that wouldn't be surprising.
So I really don't see how this claim clears GK. At first I was going to say "it probably means that GK and drazerk aren't scum buddies because then they wouldn't know where that damage came from and they would have to risk a counterclaim," but then I realized that if they are scum buddies it's entirely possible and likely that drazerk just lied about taking that damage. So I don't see how this claim clears anybody.
At the moment I have been decently convinced that GK is scum, but I'm going to vote toad because he's claimed scum in the thread and we should kill the scum right in front of us.
I think the best bet for actually killing scum today is to kill goodkarma. Unlike me, there actually is a real case on him, and it's one that hasn't been answered to anything near my satisfaction. So ##vote: goodkarma
On December 04 2012 03:20 strongandbig wrote: Alright, so I've read up on Syllo's check on me, and I have to conclude that I was bus-driven with a scum player who actually was targeting djodref. I didn't get a roleblock notification, I was told that my action did not succeed because phagga's rolename was not Golem.
Guys, think about this for a minute before you do something you'll all regret. Right now you're lynching me because of Syllo's investigation, but you have to admit that I was the obvious target for framing, bus driving, and other anti-investigation roles.
Other than that, the main reason for lynching me is that "my role doesn't seem like a normal town role." I agree with that, but that doesn't indicate anything about my alignment - this is a greymist game, that's the kind of thing he delights in.
So please, if someone wants to actually make a case on me based around my filter, do so - but maybe if no one can do that you guys will take the hint and figure out that i'm town.
On December 03 2012 16:54 syllogism wrote: That's why I'm waiting until S&B flips because people who he has allegedly targeted have experienced some weird things (Oats not receiving a heal and now something messing with you).
good point.
SnB, anything else you wanna claim about your ability? Besides the fact that you attacked me with it like an idiot. Let me be clear, without any other aspect of your claim to explain what is happening to your targets I will vote you.
I thought I was healing you. We've been over this already. I admit I failed when I didn't figure out how my role actually works, but I never have told you anything but the truth.
You see, it's not just that your ability doesn't seem townlike, it's the way you've handled the use of your ability AND the fact that you "didn't care that much" about confirming your assumptions when it came to your abilities. Even ignoring all of that you have been practically useless all game, didn't bother telling us you were going to be away for a couple of days until you were LITERALLY AT THE AIRPORT and a lackluster defense of any accusation thrown at you.
Yeah, it fits, but I can come up with any number of scenarios that fit but none of them would make as much sense as snb being scum. That doesn't mean you shouldn't continue, snb, but I don't see you talk yourself out of getting lynched at this point.
On December 04 2012 04:01 iamperfection wrote: s&b does have a point about a possible bus driver type role.
How many bus drivers do you think scum has?
And if it was a town role, why did they use it on phagga, whom s&b said he was going to target at syllo's (?) request? And if it was a townie, why haven't they claimed it?
On December 04 2012 04:01 iamperfection wrote: s&b does have a point about a possible bus driver type role.
I mean it's possible, but too many things are adding up against SnB. He has a really strange role-claim, and he hasn't done anything to establish himself as townie. I also found his "Phagga is town but not town enough for me to include him in a party" case as pretty sketchy.
On December 04 2012 04:01 iamperfection wrote: s&b does have a point about a possible bus driver type role.
How many bus drivers do you think scum has?
And if it was a town role, why did they use it on phagga, whom s&b said he was going to target at syllo's (?) request? And if it was a townie, why haven't they claimed it?
the "frame bus" was much more like a framer than a bus driver, it's quite possible they have that and also a real bus driver
And i don't think they used it on phagga, I think they used it on me - so one of them, who was going to shoot djodref, actually got roleblocked+tracked by syllogism
On December 04 2012 04:01 iamperfection wrote: s&b does have a point about a possible bus driver type role.
How many bus drivers do you think scum has?
And if it was a town role, why did they use it on phagga, whom s&b said he was going to target at syllo's (?) request? And if it was a townie, why haven't they claimed it?
i have no clue Keirathi.
and if it was a town role they should obviously claim it in my view.
On December 04 2012 03:20 strongandbig wrote: Alright, so I've read up on Syllo's check on me, and I have to conclude that I was bus-driven with a scum player who actually was targeting djodref. I didn't get a roleblock notification, I was told that my action did not succeed because phagga's rolename was not Golem.
Guys, think about this for a minute before you do something you'll all regret. Right now you're lynching me because of Syllo's investigation, but you have to admit that I was the obvious target for framing, bus driving, and other anti-investigation roles.
Other than that, the main reason for lynching me is that "my role doesn't seem like a normal town role." I agree with that, but that doesn't indicate anything about my alignment - this is a greymist game, that's the kind of thing he delights in.
So please, if someone wants to actually make a case on me based around my filter, do so - but maybe if no one can do that you guys will take the hint and figure out that i'm town.
On December 03 2012 16:59 Promethelax wrote:
On December 03 2012 16:54 syllogism wrote: That's why I'm waiting until S&B flips because people who he has allegedly targeted have experienced some weird things (Oats not receiving a heal and now something messing with you).
good point.
SnB, anything else you wanna claim about your ability? Besides the fact that you attacked me with it like an idiot. Let me be clear, without any other aspect of your claim to explain what is happening to your targets I will vote you.
I thought I was healing you. We've been over this already. I admit I failed when I didn't figure out how my role actually works, but I never have told you anything but the truth.
You see, it's not just that your ability doesn't seem townlike, it's the way you've handled the use of your ability AND the fact that you "didn't care that much" about confirming your assumptions when it came to your abilities. Even ignoring all of that you have been practically useless all game, didn't bother telling us you were going to be away for a couple of days until you were LITERALLY AT THE AIRPORT and a lackluster defense of any accusation thrown at you.
I'll admit, my play this game has been terrible, and I'm sorry for it. I shouldn't have joined the game when I was going to be gone, but in my own defense there was no way to know that this would be the single most active game in TL mafia history. It's just practically impossible to even keep up, much less to seriously contribute.
But scummy? How do any of the things you said push a scum agenda or distinguish between "scum" and "bad town player"? Once I got used to thinking of my ability in a certain way, it didn't occur to me to question it later on when I could actually take some time to think about the game.
On December 04 2012 04:21 iamperfection wrote: s&b i think you should do one of those list posts with your thoughts on all the players in the game.
do those ever actually help?
i can if you really think it would help, but usually all those things do is make the person posting them look like a scum desperate to put together something that looks like a contribution
On December 04 2012 04:21 iamperfection wrote: s&b i think you should do one of those list posts with your thoughts on all the players in the game.
do those ever actually help?
i can if you really think it would help, but usually all those things do is make the person posting them look like a scum desperate to put together something that looks like a contribution
Well if you are town, any effort/analysis to prove that would help.
I am not good with that bussing stuff. Who would have been the target of the bus? There would have been two targets, right? The person to buss and the destination person?
On December 04 2012 04:21 iamperfection wrote: s&b i think you should do one of those list posts with your thoughts on all the players in the game.
do those ever actually help?
i can if you really think it would help, but usually all those things do is make the person posting them look like a scum desperate to put together something that looks like a contribution
On December 04 2012 04:21 iamperfection wrote: s&b i think you should do one of those list posts with your thoughts on all the players in the game.
do those ever actually help?
i can if you really think it would help, but usually all those things do is make the person posting them look like a scum desperate to put together something that looks like a contribution
put it this way if you dont do anymore analysis on the remaining players you are claiming scum
On December 04 2012 04:45 phagga wrote: I am not good with that bussing stuff. Who would have been the target of the bus? There would have been two targets, right? The person to buss and the destination person?
Bus driver changes everything that happens to person A with what happens to person B and vice versa.
Therefore, SnB is claiming that there is an unknown person who was targeting Djodreff with KP, who instead got roleblocked by Syllo instead of SnB. Nothing was targeting the other person, so SnB got off clear.
It is a pretty damned mundane use of a bus. I certainly wouldn't bus scum with a scumspect townie unless I was expecting DTs... and the only DTs in this game who have so far given info are TC, who has no more gold and myself, a 3P who had a 1-shot.
So... that leaves me without a good protective reason for bussing SnB and only the setting-him-up part is left.
Compare this with such things as using the bus on someone like Oatsmaster or Clarity who could expect to get healed and a scum on the other side, or bussing damage from a townie (or scum) likely to get hit by vigis, such as CJ or GoodKarma, onto somewhere it actually matters to scum (like Oatsmaster or Clarity).
The most likely explanation is SnB is scum, he targeted Djodref instead of Phagga and is now trying to bullshit his way out of it.
Oh, add that to some setup speculation: Greymist stated in the "mafia mechanics bot thing" thread that he deals with roleblocks before busses. This is the standard way of doing it, btw, because if you do roleblocks AFTER busses you can get some really paradoxical situations.
EPT
