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On November 24 2012 07:12 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:07 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 06:59 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 24 2012 06:46 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 06:43 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 24 2012 06:40 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 06:24 Keirathi wrote:On November 24 2012 06:21 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 06:19 Keirathi wrote:On November 24 2012 06:17 TheChronicler wrote:
I still like a Sandro lynch. My problem eith him is that I think he knows too much. He's also got the most people consolidated on him. How the fuck does that make him scum? It doesn't? Why read into it like that? You were giving reasons for why you wanted to lynch him. Our goal is to lynch scum. Therefore the bolded part of your post is completely, 100% irrelevant. So why did you even say it? No, I was giving reasons for a Sandro lynch. There's a difference there. It went 1) reason I think he's scum 2) reason I think he's still a good lynch candidate you mean you'd lynch for reasons OTHER than being scum? ##Vote: TheChroniclerp.s. I've been skimming the thread, Chronicler is very scummy looking, I'll be back in 5ish hours to, you know, actually play the game instead of sitting by the sidelines. You don't take other people's opinion into account when choosing who to lynch? This is really flimsy reasoning for voting me. You're suggesting that the scummiest player is the one with the most votes. That's ludicrous and is a terrible way to determine who you want to lynch. I don't think it's an unfair suggestion to say that the person with the most votes is the one who is currently thought of as most scummy. I didn't say he's scum because he has votes. I said he was a good candidate because a lot of people find him scummy and you can therefor lynch him. If your problem is that a Sandro lynch seems too easy then you need to say that. Right now you're misrepresenting what I'm saying and I have to wonder why. My problem with sandro's lynch is that I don't think he is scum. My problem with your reasoning to lynch him is that they aren't centered around him being scum.
This is a response to clarity as well.
So you guys are saying we should all just vote willy nilly not taking into account who major lynch candidates are? My reason for voting him is that he seems to know too much, in my opinion. I justify further votes on him by saying he's a major lynch candidate.
Onto acro.
On November 24 2012 07:09 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 06:52 TheChronicler wrote:
Haha, I kind of want to because I think it would shock people, but I'm not going to give out my identity. I chose to smurf for a reason. Please stop asking me to reveal. My defense hasn't been erratic. Where has it been erratic? I think you latched onto Z-Bo's posting and instead of looking at how you were wrong you're clinging to how you could possibly be right. No. Your defense has been erratic, because you are not being logical. You are basically reacting in exactly the opposite way I would expect you to react. I point out a very clear contradiction and you say "there is no contradiction". It's not scummy, it's not townie, it's erratic. If I believe you are honest in not seeing how your behaviour clearly flipflops between two completely different viewpoints, then a lot of the reasons I think you're scum drops away. And THAT is what I am trying to assess by allowing you a chance to give me some meta-information. Anybody have a clue who this guy is? In addressing you directly, not that I believe there is much point, I will explain the two contradictions in my own words, rather than through your quotes. Contradiction 1: - Your plan calls for town reads, the more the merrier. - You tell people you don't want them to share town reads. Reasons for town to do this: their brain is switched off. Reasons for scum to do this: present a plan! It's the townie thing to do. Stop people from sharing town reads! It's an easy way to look like you're contributing without contributing. Easymode scumcruise under the radar. Whoops, I forgot about my plan. Contradiction 2: - Dudes, I have an awesome plan - Okay guys, I am going to vote for Syllo, because he is doing the OPPOSITE of what I wanted, and what I wanted was bad. - Dudes, my plan was always awesome! Reasons for town to do this: their brain is switched off. Reasons for scum to do this: not well thought-out post-hoc rationalization of an easy sheep vote to blend in. Yes, your vote was a sheep. Say all you like that you were an early adopter, but I absolutely disagree: you came in after Marv and his sheeples were already on there. That vote flew COMPLETELY under the radar, thus the very definition of blending.
Ok, you're going to say there's a contradiction here, but there isn't. You need to think about the game more.
In response to 1.
My plan never called for town reads. Again, there is no contradiction here. My plan called for certain reads, and something I think sylo could have done better was to come in after our success and emphasize how not all his picks were his town reads and that he was really suspicious of one of his picks. I don't actually know why he didn't do that. He's now painted a giant target on all of the group. He's acting like the resources of town are infinite.
In response to 2.
You seem to not understand that someone can place the voices of the many over his own. This is not a contradiction. I think my plan was good, I still think it is. No one else does. As I said earlier, do you want me to continue to harp in the thread posting useless content since no one is going to accept my idea? That's what it looks like you want me to do, and I can't figure out why.
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On November 24 2012 07:18 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:12 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 06:54 syllogism wrote:On November 24 2012 06:44 Hapahauli wrote:@ nl_clarityI'm not sold on Sandro or your 2nd case on him. Your 2nd case talks a lot about "faking enthusiasm," but his change in eagerness is explainable in many other ways as well. Also, I believe that him giving up the election at the end doesn't make sense with scum objectives: Regarding Sandroba
Along similar lines as the read on GoodKarma, him completely abandoning his campaign and sheeping on Syllo doesn't make much sense from a scum perspective. Why guarentee a strong town player complete control over party selections? Makes no sense as scum. While his activity dipped down today, the day is still young, and I can't blame people for lack of activity on Thanksgiving. Whaddy'a think? I don't think Sandroba is in the US currently and I believe very few people celebrate thanksgiving in Brazil. Also some of you people aren't giving my ability to read sandroba nearly enough weight What does thanksgiving have to do with it? He said he spent all night at a girl's place (not that that explains his absence during the day, but he was largely absent during the D1 as well). Syllo: is it normal for Sandro to work during the day and play in the evenings/night? Or does he, like me, spend the entire day at work procrastinating by F5ing the thread and poring over filters? If the latter, his absence is indeed weird. I don't feel comfortable using that kind of meta knowledge against him (ie. knowledge I have obtained due to talking him a lot outside the game). This answer doesn't confirm or deny whether that is true, because I do not know the answer unless I convert time zones and think about it more. He can disappear for long periods of time even as town, but the case against him isn't that he disappeared even though a lot of people are attempting to portray it as such.
Okay. Do you remember any game where you and Sandro were opposite alignments?
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On November 24 2012 07:18 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:17 Dienosore wrote:
Anyone else find it strange that Sandro hasn't actually accused anyone of being scummy? He's done about 10 different town reads, but no mafia reads. Closest he came to calling someone scummy was me. Please note that even his townreads lack reasoning.
Almost like he knows too much. Shocking...
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@ TC
Yes. Consolidating is something you do later in the cycle, not early. We still have plenty of time, so if you are town spending your time finding scummy things that haven't been pointed out yet is way better than sheeping onto someone and thinking you've contributed.
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On November 24 2012 07:24 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:18 syllogism wrote:On November 24 2012 07:12 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 06:54 syllogism wrote:On November 24 2012 06:44 Hapahauli wrote:@ nl_clarityI'm not sold on Sandro or your 2nd case on him. Your 2nd case talks a lot about "faking enthusiasm," but his change in eagerness is explainable in many other ways as well. Also, I believe that him giving up the election at the end doesn't make sense with scum objectives: Regarding Sandroba
Along similar lines as the read on GoodKarma, him completely abandoning his campaign and sheeping on Syllo doesn't make much sense from a scum perspective. Why guarentee a strong town player complete control over party selections? Makes no sense as scum. While his activity dipped down today, the day is still young, and I can't blame people for lack of activity on Thanksgiving. Whaddy'a think? I don't think Sandroba is in the US currently and I believe very few people celebrate thanksgiving in Brazil. Also some of you people aren't giving my ability to read sandroba nearly enough weight What does thanksgiving have to do with it? He said he spent all night at a girl's place (not that that explains his absence during the day, but he was largely absent during the D1 as well). Syllo: is it normal for Sandro to work during the day and play in the evenings/night? Or does he, like me, spend the entire day at work procrastinating by F5ing the thread and poring over filters? If the latter, his absence is indeed weird. I don't feel comfortable using that kind of meta knowledge against him (ie. knowledge I have obtained due to talking him a lot outside the game). This answer doesn't confirm or deny whether that is true, because I do not know the answer unless I convert time zones and think about it more. He can disappear for long periods of time even as town, but the case against him isn't that he disappeared even though a lot of people are attempting to portray it as such. Okay. Do you remember any game where you and Sandro were opposite alignments?
I'm almost 100% certain Marv or someone else answered this.
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
On November 24 2012 07:18 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:17 Dienosore wrote:
Anyone else find it strange that Sandro hasn't actually accused anyone of being scummy? He's done about 10 different town reads, but no mafia reads. Closest he came to calling someone scummy was me. Please note that even his townreads lack reasoning.
My maps confirm this. I have him showing aggression towards you, distrust towards Risk.Nuke, and intense aggression towards Prom. Other than those three squiggles, though, everything else has been inbound.
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On November 24 2012 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ TC
Yes. Consolidating is something you do later in the cycle, not early. We still have plenty of time, so if you are town spending your time finding scummy things that haven't been pointed out yet is way better than sheeping onto someone and thinking you've contributed.
Almost like when I said Sandro knew too much and eKeir latched onto the end of my post trying to make me look scummy then disappeared.
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On November 24 2012 03:12 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 03:05 Acrofales wrote:
Okay, I went through Sandro's filter, and other than his absence at some key moments I cannot find anything scummy. He seems to be playing pretty standard for him, calling people town with no reason given. However, I am looking forward to him waking up and starting to play again.
Another thing to keep in mind is that from a game-setup point of view it is very very risky to put people like Sandro+Syllo on opposite alignments. Not quite as bad as Coag+Jackal (and the only game I've played with both of them DrH stuck both of them on the scumteam), but not something you can do without making a very serious consideration, as they are well-known for having each other's number. I don't want to let this weigh too heavily, because meta-speculation about the host is really dodgy ground, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
Syllo+Sand: do you have a recent (last half a year or so) game where you were opposite alignments? 3rd party doesn't count. Haha. I've literally not been able to help myself considering sand/syllo/kita as some sort of superblock and I know that when I've found one of them scummier I've moved another down as less scummy for no reason. One of the reasons I trusted in my vote in syllo was that sandroba called him definitely townie. Of all the possible alignments of the two of them, the only situation that would be worrying in is a sand/syllo scumteam, which I dismissed internally, for no particularly good reason... yeah. Acro, syllo was town and sandroba was scum in Liar Game mafia, but it was a PM game so take what you will. I am disquieted by syllo's lack of thread presence today, and I want kita to show up and answer for himself. sandroba we just gotta wait for atm.
Right here. Sorry about the spam.
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On November 24 2012 07:24 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:18 syllogism wrote:On November 24 2012 07:12 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 06:54 syllogism wrote:On November 24 2012 06:44 Hapahauli wrote:@ nl_clarityI'm not sold on Sandro or your 2nd case on him. Your 2nd case talks a lot about "faking enthusiasm," but his change in eagerness is explainable in many other ways as well. Also, I believe that him giving up the election at the end doesn't make sense with scum objectives: Regarding Sandroba
Along similar lines as the read on GoodKarma, him completely abandoning his campaign and sheeping on Syllo doesn't make much sense from a scum perspective. Why guarentee a strong town player complete control over party selections? Makes no sense as scum. While his activity dipped down today, the day is still young, and I can't blame people for lack of activity on Thanksgiving. Whaddy'a think? I don't think Sandroba is in the US currently and I believe very few people celebrate thanksgiving in Brazil. Also some of you people aren't giving my ability to read sandroba nearly enough weight What does thanksgiving have to do with it? He said he spent all night at a girl's place (not that that explains his absence during the day, but he was largely absent during the D1 as well). Syllo: is it normal for Sandro to work during the day and play in the evenings/night? Or does he, like me, spend the entire day at work procrastinating by F5ing the thread and poring over filters? If the latter, his absence is indeed weird. I don't feel comfortable using that kind of meta knowledge against him (ie. knowledge I have obtained due to talking him a lot outside the game). This answer doesn't confirm or deny whether that is true, because I do not know the answer unless I convert time zones and think about it more. He can disappear for long periods of time even as town, but the case against him isn't that he disappeared even though a lot of people are attempting to portray it as such. Okay. Do you remember any game where you and Sandro were opposite alignments?
Off the top of my head games where I was town and he was mafia: liar game (pm game, but I figured him out day 1), pypi (pm game, this was mostly won based on setup/role related reasons, he was ignored for a while). I was mafia in personality and responsibility, while he was town.
You aren't going to find anything useful in those games
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On November 24 2012 07:27 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ TC
Yes. Consolidating is something you do later in the cycle, not early. We still have plenty of time, so if you are town spending your time finding scummy things that haven't been pointed out yet is way better than sheeping onto someone and thinking you've contributed. Almost like when I said Sandro knew too much and eKeir latched onto the end of my post trying to make me look scummy then disappeared.
You just told me something, I told you you were wrong, and you immediately agree and use my logic to make yourself look good?
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On November 24 2012 07:30 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:27 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ TC
Yes. Consolidating is something you do later in the cycle, not early. We still have plenty of time, so if you are town spending your time finding scummy things that haven't been pointed out yet is way better than sheeping onto someone and thinking you've contributed. Almost like when I said Sandro knew too much and eKeir latched onto the end of my post trying to make me look scummy then disappeared. You just told me something, I told you you were wrong, and you immediately agree and use my logic to make yourself look good?
Its me telling you to read my filter and see that I did go read Sandra's filter and point out why I thought he was scummy.
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On November 24 2012 07:32 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:30 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 24 2012 07:27 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ TC
Yes. Consolidating is something you do later in the cycle, not early. We still have plenty of time, so if you are town spending your time finding scummy things that haven't been pointed out yet is way better than sheeping onto someone and thinking you've contributed. Almost like when I said Sandro knew too much and eKeir latched onto the end of my post trying to make me look scummy then disappeared. You just told me something, I told you you were wrong, and you immediately agree and use my logic to make yourself look good? Its me telling you to read my filter and see that I did go read Sandra's filter and point out why I thought he was scummy.
That's great. So are you agreeing with me that taking other people's vote into consideration early during the cycle is a bad idea?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
kita has seemed awfully non-urgent about finding scum given he has until like now to try to guess the right lynch for today :/
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On November 24 2012 07:35 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:32 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 07:30 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 24 2012 07:27 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ TC
Yes. Consolidating is something you do later in the cycle, not early. We still have plenty of time, so if you are town spending your time finding scummy things that haven't been pointed out yet is way better than sheeping onto someone and thinking you've contributed. Almost like when I said Sandro knew too much and eKeir latched onto the end of my post trying to make me look scummy then disappeared. You just told me something, I told you you were wrong, and you immediately agree and use my logic to make yourself look good? Its me telling you to read my filter and see that I did go read Sandra's filter and point out why I thought he was scummy. That's great. So are you agreeing with me that taking other people's vote into consideration early during the cycle is a bad idea?
Did you even read what I posted, or did Keir tell you to come into the thread and jump on me? I never said anything about consolidation. What is it with this game? Contradictions that don't exist, misrepresentation galore. All I said was that Sandro was a viable candidate.
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If I post anything in the next 6 hours, lynch me. Night all.
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On November 24 2012 06:47 TheChronicler wrote:
Ebwop: cute how all my attackers keep going afk. Can't really hold them accountable since I'm gone for long periods of time, too, but it is annoying.
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On November 24 2012 07:30 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:24 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 07:18 syllogism wrote:On November 24 2012 07:12 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 06:54 syllogism wrote:On November 24 2012 06:44 Hapahauli wrote:@ nl_clarityI'm not sold on Sandro or your 2nd case on him. Your 2nd case talks a lot about "faking enthusiasm," but his change in eagerness is explainable in many other ways as well. Also, I believe that him giving up the election at the end doesn't make sense with scum objectives: Regarding Sandroba
Along similar lines as the read on GoodKarma, him completely abandoning his campaign and sheeping on Syllo doesn't make much sense from a scum perspective. Why guarentee a strong town player complete control over party selections? Makes no sense as scum. While his activity dipped down today, the day is still young, and I can't blame people for lack of activity on Thanksgiving. Whaddy'a think? I don't think Sandroba is in the US currently and I believe very few people celebrate thanksgiving in Brazil. Also some of you people aren't giving my ability to read sandroba nearly enough weight What does thanksgiving have to do with it? He said he spent all night at a girl's place (not that that explains his absence during the day, but he was largely absent during the D1 as well). Syllo: is it normal for Sandro to work during the day and play in the evenings/night? Or does he, like me, spend the entire day at work procrastinating by F5ing the thread and poring over filters? If the latter, his absence is indeed weird. I don't feel comfortable using that kind of meta knowledge against him (ie. knowledge I have obtained due to talking him a lot outside the game). This answer doesn't confirm or deny whether that is true, because I do not know the answer unless I convert time zones and think about it more. He can disappear for long periods of time even as town, but the case against him isn't that he disappeared even though a lot of people are attempting to portray it as such. Okay. Do you remember any game where you and Sandro were opposite alignments? Off the top of my head games where I was town and he was mafia: liar game (pm game, but I figured him out day 1), pypi (pm game, this was mostly won based on setup/role related reasons, he was ignored for a while). I was mafia in personality and responsibility, while he was town. You aren't going to find anything useful in those games
You're right. I didn't 
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 24 2012 07:37 marvellosity wrote:
kita has seemed awfully non-urgent about finding scum given he has until like now to try to guess the right lynch for today :/
I made it pretty clear that I got got pulled into a family movie.
Enemy of the State. You'd think we could at least pick something from this decade -_-
I'm caught up in the thread, but it doesn't look like I'll have a fail proof decision in the next hour.
Right now I'm looking at sandroba, Cave, and two other individuals. More to come.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Acro darling, kita me up please.
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On November 24 2012 04:59 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 04:41 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 02:57 phagga wrote:Ok, now that I've gone through Goodkarma's filter, I know why I thought he might be scum. When you look through his filter, literally the first half of it he almost only talks about what town should do, what people should do (with the one exception of his very first ingame post). There is a ton of stuff that just does not bring town anywhere. He looks like he is contributing, but nothing is really helping town. Also, the tone of his posts seems so neutral, as if he was emotionally completely detached. This is probably what others described as "constructed", for me it is just strange because it seems he does not care at all. The best example for this is this post: On November 22 2012 00:01 goodkarma wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader. As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town? He says he is upset, and calls it a scandal, which means it must have pissed him off. Bbut the tone of the post does not feel this way, it rather sounds as if he actually does not care. Then, this post is an improvement. I actually liked that post from him, even if it was a bit long and overexplaining. But then he posted that he would have Sandroba on his team, and I was really confused by that. Afterwards, it seems back to the old ways for him. When I look at his posts from today, it is mostly defending himself, a vote and post to sandroba, that's it. Tl;dr: Too much fluff, a single scum read on the Bus of the day, looks emotionally detached. Now, it is possible that this is his normal way of playing/writing, I am not familiar with his meta. However, for the above reasons, Goodkarma stands on the scummy side for me. Goodkarma:I see you have voted Sandroba. Can you name me up to three other people you also find suspicious, and why? I don't need a whole case, a short explanation what you think is scum motivated in their play would suffice. This is pretty interesting. GK is in fact detached as scum, as from his LVII filter, but I think that his much higher activity is fairly town-oriented, he's prodding around and asking questions. While he does seem detached and has taken the "lecturer tone", I don't see this necessarily be mafia-oriented, due to his activity. After checking his filter, though, there is one thing that I don't really understand, and I would like him to answer this. He goes from:
A brief note on Dieno: He is playing so badly that many would consider him likely town, as newbie scum tend to play far more cautiously. However, the persistence and singlemindedness with which he's been pushing his campaign (even after repeatedly being warned) and shitting up the thread leaves enough doubt in my head to exclude him. As a newbie town trying to improve he would have changed his gameplan long ago, as a troll he would be more, well, trolly, and as a newbie who doesn't give a shit he would have given up. How he's been playing is just plain sad, to the point where I wonder if what he's been doing is deliberately anti-town as a scum. He most definitely could be town, but I would rather not take such a risk on such an unknown.
To: On November 22 2012 21:49 goodkarma wrote:
Okay, I have finalized my team. It will be of an unusual composition (of the semi-lurker variety). Since mafia needs to influence party compositions in this game it is to their advantage to be proactive and not lurking. As such, I have chosen those I see as both pro-town and semi-lurking. These individuals I feel have been semi-lurking while contributing genuinely to the thread their own thoughts and opinions about the current game mechanics and other players. These are currently my strongest town reads.:
In no particular order:
1) Djo
2) phagga
3) dieno (only because dieno has made a role-claim I am inclined to cautiously believe...)
I will be around the next thirty minutes, and will review the thread briefly afterwards in about six hours. Please discuss any thoughts or concerns you have of these players before then. Fairly quickly (in around 7 hours). @goodkarma I would like to know what made you change your mind heavily on dienosore. I don't think that's very clear from your filter. You mention his roleclaim, so was that solely it? Please explain. Yes, it had solely to do with his roleclaim. I maintain what I said in the earlier post, but what makes him a town read for me is how absolutely stupid it would be for him to fakeclaim frog (of all people) as scum. Scum would have to fear a counter-claim, and as a newbie scum I'm very skeptical he'd have made such a move on his own.
I asked. Scum get fake claims. Do you still feel the same?
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EPT
