|
On September 06 2012 02:17 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I think it's a good idea to build a lot of cases today to get as much info as possible. We absolutely need to be more focused tomorrow and not all go vote on different people.
Ok I can get aboard with this. Soon I will make a case against someone who has been off everyone's radar recently. He still strikes me as very suspicious though.
|
If it’s a standard early lurk accusation then why mention it?
Yes I did throw around connections and because of that I now know that both you and killing are far less likely to be scum. Remember there are town motivations for accusing people especially early day one when you don’t have much to go on. You can look at the reactions and see how people respond or ignore things. For example, Xatatos just re-entered the thread and didn’t mention a thing about the accusations against him. Whereas both you and killing have without giving me much to go on(in way of mafia reads).
I tend to scum hunt differently because if I can confirm enough people town logically the rest must be mafia. Then you can look at the people remaining and go from most suspicious to least.
Of course I find the argument weak there was almost no argument strong at all day one. Wouldn’t lynch cubu because cubu was an easy day two lynch. I have been taking a risk with killing insinuations however due to that and the responses I have gotten as I said in the last through posts he is getting more and more town like. Opposed to Xatatos.
I doubt it is still the best course of action to vig shoot kville. While it is odd to go from random to logical and clear. (something I should try doing it seems) Maybe he got a prod from one of the mods about the rules? Not sure if that happens (and it would only happen as town) also if he does start posting like this then we should be able to find something out quickly. Stutters is still under the radar, this is not mindless agreeing this is fact. Happy about your comment on killing
Turns out I need to go so I will cut this off here and be back later.
|
On September 06 2012 07:36 JacobStrangelove wrote:
If it’s a standard early lurk accusation then why mention it?
Yes I did throw around connections and because of that I now know that both you and killing are far less likely to be scum. Remember there are town motivations for accusing people especially early day one when you don’t have much to go on. You can look at the reactions and see how people respond or ignore things. For example, Xatatos just re-entered the thread and didn’t mention a thing about the accusations against him. Whereas both you and killing have without giving me much to go on(in way of mafia reads).
I tend to scum hunt differently because if I can confirm enough people town logically the rest must be mafia. Then you can look at the people remaining and go from most suspicious to least.
Of course I find the argument weak there was almost no argument strong at all day one. Wouldn’t lynch cubu because cubu was an easy day two lynch. I have been taking a risk with killing insinuations however due to that and the responses I have gotten as I said in the last through posts he is getting more and more town like. Opposed to Xatatos.
I doubt it is still the best course of action to vig shoot kville. While it is odd to go from random to logical and clear. (something I should try doing it seems) Maybe he got a prod from one of the mods about the rules? Not sure if that happens (and it would only happen as town) also if he does start posting like this then we should be able to find something out quickly. Stutters is still under the radar, this is not mindless agreeing this is fact. Happy about your comment on killing
Turns out I need to go so I will cut this off here and be back later.
Who are you talking to?
Can you try harder to make your posts understandable? Like if you are replying to something make it clear what you are replying to.
|
Ok, I dont really like the way this is going. We've had people going on hunts left and right last 24h with really no focus recently. While I did agree that leaving Kville for a while and discussing other targets in parallell was a good idea, I wasnt really expecting the amount of accusation being thrown around at people.
For the remaining 24h of D2, I think it would be good if everyone could focus on 1-2, maybe 3 targets that they consider possible voting targets. Then we can get a minor grounp or players, maybe 3-4 or them who would be main suspects. Kinda like we did D1. Obviously we didnt really do it on purpose, but I think it was good we mostly focused on about 5 players D1 (WeeTee, Drazak, Kville, Cubu, Stutters). We can then let them defend themselves and choose a voting target appropriately.
Feel free to share other suspicions (I've shared mine of Xatalos for example), but try to focus on your main targets. Im not gonna push for a vote on Xatalos even though Im kinda suspicious of him.
I am however gonna push for a vote on Kville. I think all those accusations going on last 24h has given him too much breathing room. To me he still acted 100% anti-town D1, he still hasnt answered a lot of questions about his behaviour, nor has he attempted to explain why he considered his behavious to be advantageous for the town. Kville is also a low-risk/low-reward vote, which I consider a good thing. Should he flip town, we really havent lost anyone who is helping us, and it will increase of chances on hitting a mafia on D3. Lynching a more high-risk target will put us in a seriously bad spot going into D3 should we mislynch. We also run the risk of losing both the mislynch plus another good contributor N2, like we lost Thrawn. We will obviously be forced into a high-risk lynch anyway on D3 should Kville flip town, but at least theres a chance of not having to go there if we start with a low-risk lynch today and hit home.
I really didnt plan to start my serious case Kville as early as this. I would have like to wait until closer to the deadline to try and find more clues. Main reason Im already voting now is that I wanna get a bit of focus back to people, get people voting, reacting to votes and only discussion the most relevant, say, 3-5 targets.
To make it clear: Im voting on Kville in the voting thread now.
|
On September 06 2012 07:39 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:36 JacobStrangelove wrote:
If it’s a standard early lurk accusation then why mention it?
Yes I did throw around connections and because of that I now know that both you and killing are far less likely to be scum. Remember there are town motivations for accusing people especially early day one when you don’t have much to go on. You can look at the reactions and see how people respond or ignore things. For example, Xatatos just re-entered the thread and didn’t mention a thing about the accusations against him. Whereas both you and killing have without giving me much to go on(in way of mafia reads).
I tend to scum hunt differently because if I can confirm enough people town logically the rest must be mafia. Then you can look at the people remaining and go from most suspicious to least.
Of course I find the argument weak there was almost no argument strong at all day one. Wouldn’t lynch cubu because cubu was an easy day two lynch. I have been taking a risk with killing insinuations however due to that and the responses I have gotten as I said in the last through posts he is getting more and more town like. Opposed to Xatatos.
I doubt it is still the best course of action to vig shoot kville. While it is odd to go from random to logical and clear. (something I should try doing it seems) Maybe he got a prod from one of the mods about the rules? Not sure if that happens (and it would only happen as town) also if he does start posting like this then we should be able to find something out quickly. Stutters is still under the radar, this is not mindless agreeing this is fact. Happy about your comment on killing
Turns out I need to go so I will cut this off here and be back later.
Who are you talking to? Can you try harder to make your posts understandable? Like if you are replying to something make it clear what you are replying to.
Agreed. Use the quote button to show who you are talking to or specifically state it. Makes it much more understandable. Noticed the same thing in this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 19:22 JacobStrangelove wrote:I HAVE looked through those filters and because if it I want more people to do the same. It's obvious I am the big one going at killing at least so I am in a spot if he is lynched and flips town. Despite almost nobody thinking he is scum (after his list post day one people all thought he was town{not going to start the lists are easy to hide behind stuff again}) Also I don't think I am latching on to other peoples reads if I am going for killing and Xato. (xato maybe but you must realise almost everyone has been accused so almost everyone thinking the same could be a bandwagon move). The reason I am putting the pressure on Killing and Xato so much is so they explain what is going on. Assuming you are not mafia the likelyhood of one of them being one is high. So I agree we should put the heat on him that is what I have been trying to do. I haven’t commited to Xato as I am waiting for a response. Your and thrawns stutters read does make sense... motivation over activity. Whose analysis was I latching onto there? The only analysis part I latched onto was the first line. From kush going for Xatalos onwards that was all mine. (With exception to the wagon when tired up part) I am confirming parts of other people’s analysis that makes sense. Also the case against kush isn’t strong, as I said before you (not bad wagoning I promise...) It leaves more reason to Drazak being scum than Kush. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 18:12 JacobStrangelove wrote:
Kush is getting pushed on by Darzak who had both the people against him lynched. This makes it more likely that he is scum than kush is but we shouldn't fall into the trap if thinking kush is confirmed town just because thrawn thought so. I probably should point out that part of the reason I had a town read for WeeTee is that I happen to know his style (see his first post where he mentions it’s good to see me) and it reeks of town. With this (although he may have fooled me) I thought Xatatos read of WeeTee when Stutters was available strange. Also with killing he is sceptical of “meta” reads Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 23:57 KillingTime wrote:
My point was that I did not think your town reads added much to the thread, partly because I am very sceptical of "meta" reads at this point given that we all have 3 or less games.
Sure but its more information, that can only be helpful. If WeeTee fits his meta (he does) and he fits the meta I know he is unlikely to be scum. This and the fact that he had to leave due to time problems(although that may have been after my time line is a little messed up) then surely stutters were a better lynch. For this reason I have been thinking that killing is mafia sudo protecting stutters. Since the focus is on me now I need to say The Killing /xatalos thing was simply a hypothesis I was using to draw them out. (It was based on someone else’s analysis yes) It drew out Killing and he responded well. (although it was list like) So I am simply waiting for Xatalos to reenter the thread. If he reenters the thread and doesn’t post good responses I will turn the dogs in my head towards him.
At that point it was kinda clear you werent talking to Sonis, but not without actually checking back on what was written before, which shouldnt be needed. But still no reason not to do it. As kush said this time though Im not really 100% sure on who you're talking to.
|
On September 06 2012 07:49 Kreb wrote:
Ok, I dont really like the way this is going. We've had people going on hunts left and right last 24h with really no focus recently. While I did agree that leaving Kville for a while and discussing other targets in parallell was a good idea, I wasnt really expecting the amount of accusation being thrown around at people.
I agree we should limit our discussion to three people for the last 24 hours. But the last 24 hours haven't started yet so I think it's ok for people to still basically give suggests as to who those three people should be.
|
For instance if I had to pick three it would be drazak, killing, and xatalos. I'm going to try to get my reasoning in for drazak and killing before the 24 hour mark.
|
On September 06 2012 08:03 kushm4sta wrote:
For instance if I had to pick three it would be drazak, killing, and xatalos. I'm going to try to get my reasoning in for drazak and killing before the 24 hour mark.
I'll chime in that my main three targets would be Kville, Stutters, Xatalos. Nothing which has changed last 24h really, but might be a good idea to make it clear once more,
|
On September 06 2012 08:01 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:49 Kreb wrote:
Ok, I dont really like the way this is going. We've had people going on hunts left and right last 24h with really no focus recently. While I did agree that leaving Kville for a while and discussing other targets in parallell was a good idea, I wasnt really expecting the amount of accusation being thrown around at people.
I agree we should limit our discussion to three people for the last 24 hours. But the last 24 hours haven't started yet so I think it's ok for people to still basically give suggests as to who those three people should be.
For us in EU, it pretty much has :p
When I wake up it will be 18h left or so. So I preferred getting the info out now rather than then, especially since I'll be at work 8h tomorrow.
|
fuckin euros man...
I think kville is a bad choice to focus on. He has not posted enough to discuss meaningfully, and considering his meta I think he is a null read.
Also we gain nothing by lynching him, whether he flips red or green, because his lynch is a matter of policy more than anything else.
If we cannot come to a consensus on someone more active to lynch, then maybe he can be our default lynch or somthing. So yeah I'm not saying we shouldn't lynch him but I am saying we shouldn't talk about him.
Stutters has been lurking hard day 2. His recent kville accusations have been very safe. At this point kville is the safest person to suspect, just because his play has been so WTF. However, I do appreciate his recent contributions on kville's metagame and I think that was a good post. I'm ok with stutters as a focus but I would prefer someone else.
However I think we can all at least agree that xatalos needs some looking at for the last 24 hours. People should say if they want to lynch him or not and why.
|
Someone else I want to get people's thoughts on are drazzak. He is a semi-lurker and all around bad poster. So losing him would not mean losing good town, unlike a lynch on xatalos.
His attack on me seems scummy for various reasons.. possibly defending his scumbuddy by attacking his scumbuddy's attacker.
Also I would like to make a post about the drazzak xatalos connection. If you read the filter xatalos has a history of defending drazzak and calling his posts good when they really aren't.
On September 04 2012 00:05 Xatalos wrote:
I also don't think drazak is Mafia. The typical reaction for pressured Mafia is to get angry, aggressive or desperate, but in my eyes, he has tried to be genuinely helpful - giving away a lot of unnecessary information in case he actually was Mafia. The somewhat frustrated tone in his posts also points more to town than Mafia.
When i read this i was like ...huh? Drazak's defense of thrawn's vote actually made him seem more suspicious to me. I would not call him genuinely helpful at all.
It seems very out of place reading xatalos' filter that he would be that accepting of drazak.
|
As someone outside of the kush/drazak argument, I think you're both overreacting.
Kush: I agree with you drazak isnt an amazing poster overall. But that why you can take his accusations more lightly. I dont think anyone jumped onto Drazaks wagon on you Kush, did they? You should be feeling pretty safe given the opinions people post about you. You're also making conditional accusations. "If Xatalos is scum, Drazak might be trying to cover for his buddy". While its a possibility, theres absolutely not reason to ever go for Drazak in that case. Your focus should be on Xatalos and getting a mafia flip on him, which then would confirm your suspicions.
Drazak: No offense, but you havent posted the most contributing posts. And your case on Kush to me is a weak case. As far as I can remember now, there hasnt been much support for your case, actually rather the opposite with people claiming townreads on Kush. I'd advice you to drop your case, if nothing else for the purpose of getting a more focused discussion since theres pretty much no chance there will be a Kush lynch D2.
|
So can we come to a consensus about people we want to focus investigation on? Xatalos and who else? I like drazak but kreb doesn't it seems like. Any other input on the matter?
Again I want to avoid lurkers who don't really have much to talk about.
|
On September 06 2012 08:53 kushm4sta wrote:
He is a semi-lurker and all around bad poster. So losing him would not mean losing good town, unlike a lynch on xatalos.
I have a hard time seeing how that argument isnt best used on Kville. He is the definition of a not good town (if he is town).
Also, people gave you towncred for your kinda unjustified attack on me. To me, drazaks attack on you is similar. I understand it might not look the same from the point of view as the attacked person. But just as people thought you had honest (but miguided) intentions on your attack on me, I definitely think drazak also has honest and misguided intentions with the attack on you. You're not having much more reason to turn things back onto drazak than I did have to turn things nack onto you. But I never did that.
|
I'll also post my other townread on Drazak. Maybe Im over-analyzing things, but this one little part of a sentence actually had me fairly conviced. Let me explain:
Page 14 if you wanna re-read.
What had happened before was:
Thrawn had made a case on Drazak.
Drazak had responded with a bunch on replies.
I pointed out Drazaks defense being lackluster.
The drazak pointed out this:
On September 03 2012 20:43 drazak wrote:
I only mention a no-lynch in direct reply to what kushm4sta said, reread his post. Sorry if I'm being defensive, not sure how that's a senseless claim considering what kushm4sta said. Everything I've said has made me infinitely more useful on D2 compared to someone like kville, I have a lot to analyze, and you'll have more info. lynch me now and your future lynches get harder.
See what Im getting at? Probably not. The key thing to me is this:
Sorry if I'm being defensive
That really had me thinking. Let me explain. That little phrase expresses the feeling of guilt. First of all, there is absolutely no reason for a mafia to feel genuine guilt at this point. He is being attack from one front (thrawn) and then has his defense kind of destroyed from another front (me). What is the feeling you get as mafia then? Desperation? Maybe. Resignation? Maybe. Anger? Maybe. Guilt? Hell no. For this to be a mafia-move, it has to be a planted feeling. A purposedly planted feeling to fool us.
So, it it possible it was? To me, no. Because purposedly placing a feeling on guilt there is a pretty damn crafty move. And had drazak been a crafty mafia, he would never have put himself in that situation to begin with. He would never have replied so badly to Thrawns accusations had he been a crafty mafia.
So whats more likely?
A) He got taken by surprise by thrawns accusations, immediately tried to defend himself, but upon seeing my post kinda talk down on his defense feelt guilt and the need to excuse himself.
B) Purposedly responded badly to thrawns accusation. Then upon seeing my comment gladly noticed that "hey, now is the perfect time to apologize for my bad defense, surely someone will make a read on me thats its genuine guilt and i'll look townish".
Am I over-anazyling things? Maybe. But to me drazak is looking town at least.
|
On September 06 2012 09:22 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 08:53 kushm4sta wrote:
He is a semi-lurker and all around bad poster. So losing him would not mean losing good town, unlike a lynch on xatalos.
I have a hard time seeing how that argument isnt best used on Kville. He is the definition of a not good town (if he is town). Also, people gave you towncred for your kinda unjustified attack on me. To me, drazaks attack on you is similar. I understand it might not look the same from the point of view as the attacked person. But just as people thought you had honest (but miguided) intentions on your attack on me, I definitely think drazak also has honest and misguided intentions with the attack on you. You're not having much more reason to turn things back onto drazak than I did have to turn things nack onto you. But I never did that.
My attack on you was not unjustified and not misguided. Your post was a piece of shit and very suspicious and I wanted you to post more.
|
On September 06 2012 09:47 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 09:22 Kreb wrote:On September 06 2012 08:53 kushm4sta wrote:
He is a semi-lurker and all around bad poster. So losing him would not mean losing good town, unlike a lynch on xatalos.
I have a hard time seeing how that argument isnt best used on Kville. He is the definition of a not good town (if he is town). Also, people gave you towncred for your kinda unjustified attack on me. To me, drazaks attack on you is similar. I understand it might not look the same from the point of view as the attacked person. But just as people thought you had honest (but miguided) intentions on your attack on me, I definitely think drazak also has honest and misguided intentions with the attack on you. You're not having much more reason to turn things back onto drazak than I did have to turn things nack onto you. But I never did that. My attack on you was not unjustified and not misguided. Your post was a piece of shit and very suspicious and I wanted you to post more.
You're going pretty off topic so I'll reply in spoilers. On topic: Dont you agree Kville is the definition of a not good town?
+ Show Spoiler +My post was two sentences agreeing on stuff like 3 people already agreed on. Then another 1 sentence of what I would do later (which for some reason several players auto-assumed I would not fulfill. I was accused of not fulfilling a commitment before there was even time to fulfill it). Thrawn also said it was unjustified, others pointed it out to, though maybe with with that wording.
Stop using that aggressive tone. Calm down. You are making it only harder for yourself to focus and for the rest of us too. I dont want this to start into a dicussion about what happened 10h into D1. Thats over
|
On September 06 2012 09:42 Kreb wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'll also post my other townread on Drazak. Maybe Im over-analyzing things, but this one little part of a sentence actually had me fairly conviced. Let me explain: Page 14 if you wanna re-read. What had happened before was: Thrawn had made a case on Drazak. Drazak had responded with a bunch on replies. I pointed out Drazaks defense being lackluster. The drazak pointed out this: On September 03 2012 20:43 drazak wrote:
I only mention a no-lynch in direct reply to what kushm4sta said, reread his post. Sorry if I'm being defensive, not sure how that's a senseless claim considering what kushm4sta said. Everything I've said has made me infinitely more useful on D2 compared to someone like kville, I have a lot to analyze, and you'll have more info. lynch me now and your future lynches get harder. See what Im getting at? Probably not. The key thing to me is this: Sorry if I'm being defensive That really had me thinking. Let me explain. That little phrase expresses the feeling of guilt. First of all, there is absolutely no reason for a mafia to feel genuine guilt at this point. He is being attack from one front (thrawn) and then has his defense kind of destroyed from another front (me). What is the feeling you get as mafia then? Desperation? Maybe. Resignation? Maybe. Anger? Maybe. Guilt? Hell no. For this to be a mafia-move, it has to be a planted feeling. A purposedly planted feeling to fool us. So, it it possible it was? To me, no. Because purposedly placing a feeling on guilt there is a pretty damn crafty move. And had drazak been a crafty mafia, he would never have put himself in that situation to begin with. He would never have replied so badly to Thrawns accusations had he been a crafty mafia. So whats more likely? A) He got taken by surprise by thrawns accusations, immediately tried to defend himself, but upon seeing my post kinda talk down on his defense feelt guilt and the need to excuse himself. B) Purposedly responded badly to thrawns accusation. Then upon seeing my comment gladly noticed that "hey, now is the perfect time to apologize for my bad defense, surely someone will make a read on me thats its genuine guilt and i'll look townish". Am I over-anazyling things? Maybe. But to me drazak is looking town at least.
That whole thing about guilt.. not following it, not buying it. Guilt is a very complex emotion and I do not think you can base his innocence off of one sentence that you somehow read as guilt.
Looking for other people to chime in on what they think of drazak. Also does someone follow what kreb is saying here?
this quote is lolz
He is being attack from one front (thrawn) and then has his defense kind of destroyed from another front (me).
His defense was not a defense. The post you praise was just copying an argument I made, which did not even take into account if he was mafia or not.
He had no real defense to destroy.. and to say you "destroyed" it like some master logician picking apart his arguments is an overestimation of both drazzak and yourself.
|
On September 06 2012 09:58 Kreb wrote:
On topic: Dont you agree Kville is the definition of a not good town?
First sorry for being a dick I was pissed off in that moment about something else.
Second yeah kville is really bad town, but he acted bad town in another game as well and he was town. Therefore acting like bad town doesn't make him mafia. It's just a null read. I don't want to lynch someone who has a null read.
|
On September 06 2012 07:39 kushm4sta wrote:
Who are you talking to?
Can you try harder to make your posts understandable? Like if you are replying to something make it clear what you are replying to.
Hey I was in a hurry 10 min before the train left. I was talking to sonic. Will read and bbl.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
