Newbie Mini Mafia XXVI - Page 25

On September 04 2012 21:44 thrawn2112 wrote:


I'm not exactly sure what you want me to chime in on but I'll talk about scumhunting priorities that you and stutters seem to be arguing about.

In XXIV, there was a massive shit-flinging fight between shady and I. There were people who thought shady was being completely illogical, and there were people who though I was being completely illogical. The vote was closely split between shady and I and shady ended up getting lynched. But the people who voted for either of us voted on the premise that illogical posting = scum. There weren't any good scum-motive explanations for either shady or my actions and the votes were completely based on "well this guy says dumb stuff." Then D2 I got lynched and flipped vigilante, and once again nobody was voting based off scum-motive suspicions. The case against me was that my vig claim was unbelievable, and there was an association case against me because another player and I had made extremely similar posts at the exact same time which made people think that we were in conversation with each other as scum. Meanwhile there was a player who had been saying extremely illogical stuff, but most people gave him a town read because they thought there'd be no way that a scum would be so illogical. His actual actions/votes were so extremely scummy throughout the whole game. However, people ignored that because they were spending too much time trying to make reads based on the quality of his posts, when instead they should have been looking at his motives behind the posts. The point is motives>quality of posts in terms of importance to making reads.

That was the reason I favored lynching stutters over cubu. They both were heavy lurkers without much actual contribution in the few posts they had made. The people who voted for cubu did it because the quality (reasoning, writing style, and relevance to the thread) of stutter's posts was much higher than cubu's. So in their eyes, having low quality posts (see my earlier definition of quality) makes you look scummy. I didn't think that was a good assumption to make, and I preferred voting stutters because stutters had done less scumhunting than cubu. At the time of deciding between the two, the only scumhunting stutters had done was the very last paragraph of this post. Cubu of course hadn't done as much scumhunting as most poeple, but his contributions towards finding scum were more than what stutters gave. It was a vote based on motives instead of quality... somebody who doesn't scumhunt (ask questions, state what you find scummy, accuse people with FOS and such) is not a town player.

On September 02 2012 23:09 KillingTime wrote:
When we call for an “active” thread - I think what we mean is players making logical cases and then responding to them.

Here are my current reads so far. I would consider them weak ( esp as we have players who have hardly/not posted yet), but if they are not addressed in later play then I will be concerned - :

Scummy:
SonicDeathMonkey: I appreciate your efforts to keep the thread ordered and moving along. But, that is a nice null read at best. Your posting reads too much like scum trying to push others along without much substantive play in the hope that it will create a nice wagon to jump on or an outspoken townie you can target. You must stop trying to play threadcop and post some original reads with better reasoning.

JacobStrangelove: Almost every post in your filter thus far is wishy washy and lacking in any content - your conclusion on lynching lurkers? It comes down to instinct. On nolynch day one: You disagree(only acceptable response to that dumb question) - but do “know what you mean”. On my first post? “Maybe it was pointless.. but on the flip side”. You have managed to be active without any content on even the most innocuous of debates - scummy until you get more involved with the thread.

WeeTee - I agree with thrawn that only a fluffy first post, is now hard to justify now that there has been some discussion. Needs to follow up with a better second post. Weetee can stand in for anyone else who has not posted as well, at this point we have enough of a thread that just a fluff post is not a good entrance.


Towny:
thrawn
Xatalos
Both have posted good content, logically reasoned.

Unsure:
Kushm4sta’s posting so far confuses me. I need to think about them more/see what else he posts before I develop any kind of read.

Fluff:
- I have never watched the TV show the flavour for this game is based on - so please don’t make any jokes and expect me to understand them.

On September 03 2012 16:21 KillingTime wrote:
Good morning all - ATM the player who I am most suspicious of is the one who has attempted to make a contribution to the thread but did so with a post that gave us no opinions or information that we didn't already have. I want to see if he is capable of at least trying to make posts that are interesting/valuable or if he is scum and just trying to skirt around beeing seen as a "lurker". I don't want the to be any trains started without one of them being Him because his style suggests so far that he might just come back and jump on one at the back.

##Vote WeeTee

On September 03 2012 23:57 KillingTime wrote:
I kind of feel that a kville lynch would be similar to a kush lynch. We seem to agree that for a mafia to go out and make the d1 posts that kush did would be very gambley/spaz mafia play. Well, the same thing surely applies to Kville - I don't like the fact he is lurking like a submarine - but at this point, given how every active player has repeatedly stressed that they want town to be posting - the total refusal of kville to do that kind of makes me think there are better lynch targets (atleast for d1, d2 is a different story and kville is certainly going to need a good explanation and good d2 play if he does survive).

On a percentage basis I think it is more likely that cuba or weetee or stutters (who never asked those "questions" he was promising) or drazak are scum who have realised their mistake and are trying to cover for it - rather than kville who is being such a blatant lurk.

Weetee says that "In my opinion my previous post is succinct of my town reads and its what I wanted to say which should be valued by everyone as a whole"

My point was that I did not think your town reads added much to the thread, partly because I am very sceptical of "meta" reads at this point given that we all have 3 or less games. I could persuaded to change my vote off you given that others have not agreed with me, but to do so I do need to hear from you not about who you think is town - but who you think is scum!

On September 04 2012 05:32 KillingTime wrote:
Weetee are you around? I made a request earlier for you to do some scumhunting and I would really like to see some before the deadline/I comment more...

I am ignoring Kville for the moment... I think the quality of his posts is self evident, but he is just a distraction atm.

On September 04 2012 06:31 KillingTime wrote:
I assume EOD is "evening of deadline"?

Yawn - Ok... I am going to ignore Kville for the moment because his posting is useless.

At this point I am happy to get on Kush's Cubu wagon. He has made a cogent case for why Cubu is a decent lynch and has offered up a plausible reason (meta) why he prefers him to Weetee. I have said already that I am sceptical of the value of meta in a newbie game, but looking back at the thread I can't honestly say I have a better case on Weetee than Kush does on Cubu and all day 1 reads are fairly weak by necessity.

Weetee still remains in my mind though and I certainly will want to examine him again D2. He has ignored/not seen/not yet answered my request, but I assume he will see it when he comes to vote soonish assuming he does not want to get modkilled. As I will be asleep for the lynch - gl town.

On September 05 2012 17:57 KillingTime wrote:
@Kreb: I would consider  kush & sonic (who i suspect d1 but for weak reasons and who has played well since then) to be the most town players at the moment, with Kreb & drazak someway behind them. They are all active and seem to be trying to help town. But many of them seem to be abit at loggerheads so I want to go through filters this afternoon and see whether I still agree with these reads.

I agree my post last night was broad/reluctant. That is because I broadly agree about kville, but really hope we can do better because even if kville is mafia he is the weakest member of the mafia as well in terms of finding the whole mafia team.

In terms of those I am suspicious of at the moment:

Weetee/imcasey - No change since my last post when I said they were null for the moment (perhaps jacob did not read that post?) and that the need for replacement might have explained what I found scummy about them, but that I would be watching closely. I am not sure how this can be seen as “bandwagoning with xtalos” as Jacob has suggested. If you look at Xatalos’s vote he voted for Cubu early, when I was still voting for wetee.. which hardly seems like bandwagon activity to me.

Jacob - I am trying hard to be objective about you and not fall into an OMGUS trap just because you are pushing me. But, I really dislike your play-style, posts like this one: seem to be designed just to confuse townies while saying almost nothing of value. At this point in the game town has very little information, so we can dream up any number of scenarios to second guess the mafia actions, I don’t think that kind of theorycrafting will help us catch scum.

Your current argument seems to be that Xatalos & I are/were attempting to bus weetee/imcasey because I was more suspicious of him (unknown alignment) over cubu (confirmed town) on d1. I find this argument hard to understand and it seems more driven by your suspicions/attempts to smear me.

Xatalos - I don't know what to make of the fact that jacob is pushing him alongside me. But, I would like him to explain why he thinks that Stutters695 is a much weaker case than imcasey, given that the need to be replaced seems to count in Weetees/imcaseys favour but not in his on d1 and there has been little from either of them on d2.

Kville/Stutters - yep these two guys exist, not much more you can say about either unless stutters decides to be helpful (I have no hope with kville)

On September 06 2012 18:51 JacobStrangelove wrote:
I am going to reply to sonic in this post as quoted


I am just saying he was mostly lurking day one but he had reasons. Sure he might be mafia with these same reasons but we are talking about real reasons that really happened. After that he has been much more active and helpful, this was not the extent of it though read the post right above this and you see my comment about pushing such a solid townie at the time. This said there has been some discussion over kush at the moment now that things have calmed down. (will get to this later)



Fair enough.



I will list the townish people most I have given reasons for before.
Sonic
Myself!
Imcasey
Drazak
Killingtime(but I am watching him with a 10 foot pole)
Kreb
This leaves
Stutters
Kville
xatalos
and kush just now (who I am becoming aware of)
Looking at this list kush defends stutters by avoiding talking about him (see drazaks post) this also leaves us seeing xatalos semi defending stutters. Kville is nowhere.

See with a list like this town and scum you can see the links. A kush stutters xalalos team could be the answer. I would vote stutters instead of kville as if we vote kville we get nothing from he flip but you can see what we would gain from a stutters flip.

HOWEVER stutters just posted turning my thoughts to confusion. To be open I will post this the way it was going to be but including stuff referring to the stutters thing.
He says we won’t gain from a stutters flip if he flips town. If he flips scum however we would gain everything. So he says lynch killing. If killing flips mafia then I am probably confirmed town “yay” but if he flips green town town will instant lynch me. Which if stutters is mafia would win the game. Also would like to point out that a lynch on kville reveals nothing as well.
Associative cases are pretty bad I must admit but they can provide a little information.



I was attacking killingtime because he seemed to be ignoring the things I said about him in favour of just posting reads. The reason I town read you is you seem to have responded better initially so I temporarily town read you. I was getting frustrated as his semi avoidant approach however as the game went on he started replying in a manner that I would expect. The reason I attacked you and killing time so much is I realised you both thought in the same manner so

1. If you were both mafia we were screwed unless I could force you to make a slip early.
2. By attacking him I could have more to look at
3. If I could confirm you guys town it would make scum hunting so much easier.

It wasn’t so much about scum slips you had made (I was just nitpicking) it was about forcing the two most scary people. Into a situation they probably would. Part of the reason I think he is town now is I haven’t found anything unusual in his postings. (Apart from a growing annoyance of me which is to be expected and I apologise for) Although there might be something in stutters case just now.

Drazak seems to be having the same idea

Although just a note kush is known for overreaction for no apparent reason.
Yeah I understand, I was just really short for time at the time and wanted to get a post in reply up.

On a side note how long till lynch? I think the night period messed up my internal clock.