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On January 10 2012 23:52 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 23:11 Tyrran wrote:On January 10 2012 21:56 Cwave wrote:
Why i ask is because i find it a given you post protown stuff as ... town.
To articulate it and stress it that you are gonna be pro-town leads me to believe you are forcing yourself to do pro-town stuff. You should read Steamship Mafia Day 1. If townies only posted pro-town stuff, this game would be so much easier. On January 10 2012 22:10 syllogism wrote:Tyrran: is this the reason you find jackal scummy? Jackal 58 for being overly agressive on pamar with no real case behind it, and Palmar because i found your case solid. Now that Palmar flipped demon, you still think he is a good lynch today? Sorry, there is no way you can honestly believe that. What I did not like on Jackal filter is that he hardly gave any reasoning for his hyper agression. He tunnelled on palmar, and did not even had the sligthtest reaction when MrWiggle made a solid case on Palmar. This is wy he looks scummy to me. It was better towards the end of day 2, and Palmar flipped scum, so i was about to let go on him, but then he does exactly the same thing on dirkzor day 2. Should you ask me if we should lynch him now, I'd answer no. Both Cwave and risk are more scummy. Yet I want to keep an eye on him. You'll get used to me. Palmar was obv scum. Nothing Wiggles said either expanded nor contradicted my belief that Palmar was scum. Dirkzor is also scum. It's also obvious to me why. I explained part of it day 1. His lack of interest or caring if he lynches town or scum that is evident from one of his only posts during this day cycle merely reinforces my beliefs. I assume you guys read the same drivel from the same people I do. I lack the ability and desire to write a thesis on everybody I see as scummy. I point it out and assume you guys are smart enough to see it too with out me interjecting 300 lines of rhetoric and hyperbola.
Jackal, given what you have read so far,
do you think that assuming people in this thread can be relied upon to figure out what is scummy benefits town at all?
could you please make an effort to help people make the correct lynch today?
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On January 16 2012 20:30 Blazinghand wrote:
The other thing this means is that town has 5 votes, angels have 2 votes, and the demons have 3 votes, including mine.
This means that the town cannot win a vote today unless we have the help of one of the scum teams. I have some nominal control over my vote until the demons mess with it, meaning that assuming they're afraid of WIFOM or something, they probably won't actually manipulate my vote since they're afraid of giving something away. Their goal is to kill an angel or the DH today and get up to 4 votes out of 8 or 7 tomorrow, controlling the town vote.
;_; i'm unclear on where to go here guys
By lynching any scum, we are helping the other team. Rigth now, as it has been stated before, our best chance to win is to lynch an angel and hope that the DT manage to kill a demon.
I'm afraid Syllo was seer, and with no angel check, we are in trouble. You said you had a non-dark sense last nigth. Now that you have claimed, I think you should tell us who it is. It cant be the DT, and HoD is likely the sage ( either that or the angeglic observer). There are at least two ( possibly 3) angels left, and 2 VT left. A non dark read is an at least 50% chance of being an angel. While not enough for lynching, I think we should have a close look at your non dark sense.
Concerning the layabout case. Even if HoD is the observer and not the sage, layabout being twisted is a very strong Demon tell. But we can deal with him at night ( Demons have no protection against DH). For the lynch, let's focus on a angel.
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On January 17 2012 05:07 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 20:30 Blazinghand wrote:
The other thing this means is that town has 5 votes, angels have 2 votes, and the demons have 3 votes, including mine.
This means that the town cannot win a vote today unless we have the help of one of the scum teams. I have some nominal control over my vote until the demons mess with it, meaning that assuming they're afraid of WIFOM or something, they probably won't actually manipulate my vote since they're afraid of giving something away. Their goal is to kill an angel or the DH today and get up to 4 votes out of 8 or 7 tomorrow, controlling the town vote.
;_; i'm unclear on where to go here guys By lynching any scum, we are helping the other team. Rigth now, as it has been stated before, our best chance to win is to lynch an angel and hope that the DT manage to kill a demon.
I'm afraid Syllo was seer, and with no angel check, we are in trouble. You said you had a non-dark sense last nigth. Now that you have claimed, I think you should tell us who it is. It cant be the DT, and HoD is likely the sage ( either that or the angeglic observer). There are at least two ( possibly 3) angels left, and 2 VT left. A non dark read is an at least 50% chance of being an angel. While not enough for lynching, I think we should have a close look at your non dark sense.
Concerning the layabout case. Even if HoD is the observer and not the sage, layabout being twisted is a very strong Demon tell. But we can deal with him at night ( Demons have no protection against DH). For the lynch, let's focus on a angel. Hey guys why don't we ignore the fact that i am an excellent target for the DH because i have yet to make a real contribution to the thread and instead have the DH KILL THE MOST PROTOWN PLAYER IN THE THREAD INSTEAD OF ME
(psst i am town and a dh hit would kill me)
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How about one of you lazy expletive removed makes an actual case against me rather than saying that scum suspect number 1 and probable Angel of Death HoD said layabout was twisted and i think that layabout giving a time that he would re-cast his vote by was him soft - claiming corrupted town so he must be a demon.?
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This is what you need to consider Layabout.
Is anyone counter-claiming HoD? No.
frankly there's no reason not to counter claim if you are the sage and HoD is not, you're role is worth lynching the AoD ( roleblocked no AoD kill) to reveal and you would already have 3 reads.
Was wiggles likely to be the Sage? No. there was no purgatory last night so the channeler is dead and RoL was scummy, he made a plan that was anti-town, he lurked all game, did no scumhunting besides tunneling BH and claimed VT earlier in the thread. RoL was not the real channeler so by the process of elimination we can assume that Wiggles was.
The way I see it you are pushing for a lynch on the person that could do the most damage to demons, you were protecting Palmar earlier in the game, and the twist doesn't help yourself either (why would they want to twist you?)
Unless somebody else claims sage there is no reason to lynch HoD and you should stop tunneling on him and push a candidate more likely to flip scum.
@BH: I would be interested in hearing your non-dark read.
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Shit
Fuck
Bull
Crap
ARGH!
That lay was twisted and HoD targeted him just seems to good to be true. That way HoD did not have to come up with another statement that could or could not be right. I think he got lucky on the grack claim, or his team (angels) knew he wasnt a demon because the acolyte tried to kill him and it was then safe to say he got Not demon.
RoL claimed Channeler because angels knew our plan to put HoD in purgatory (which of course wouldn't happen). They hoped it would confuse town enough to let HoD live today and lynch someone else.
##Vote HoD
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Eh... hold that thought. I won't vote yet... No hammer time yet
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On January 17 2012 05:02 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 23:52 Jackal58 wrote:On January 10 2012 23:11 Tyrran wrote:On January 10 2012 21:56 Cwave wrote:
Why i ask is because i find it a given you post protown stuff as ... town.
To articulate it and stress it that you are gonna be pro-town leads me to believe you are forcing yourself to do pro-town stuff. You should read Steamship Mafia Day 1. If townies only posted pro-town stuff, this game would be so much easier. On January 10 2012 22:10 syllogism wrote:Tyrran: is this the reason you find jackal scummy? Jackal 58 for being overly agressive on pamar with no real case behind it, and Palmar because i found your case solid. Now that Palmar flipped demon, you still think he is a good lynch today? Sorry, there is no way you can honestly believe that. What I did not like on Jackal filter is that he hardly gave any reasoning for his hyper agression. He tunnelled on palmar, and did not even had the sligthtest reaction when MrWiggle made a solid case on Palmar. This is wy he looks scummy to me. It was better towards the end of day 2, and Palmar flipped scum, so i was about to let go on him, but then he does exactly the same thing on dirkzor day 2. Should you ask me if we should lynch him now, I'd answer no. Both Cwave and risk are more scummy. Yet I want to keep an eye on him. You'll get used to me. Palmar was obv scum. Nothing Wiggles said either expanded nor contradicted my belief that Palmar was scum. Dirkzor is also scum. It's also obvious to me why. I explained part of it day 1. His lack of interest or caring if he lynches town or scum that is evident from one of his only posts during this day cycle merely reinforces my beliefs. I assume you guys read the same drivel from the same people I do. I lack the ability and desire to write a thesis on everybody I see as scummy. I point it out and assume you guys are smart enough to see it too with out me interjecting 300 lines of rhetoric and hyperbola. Jackal, given what you have read so far, do you think that assuming people in this thread can be relied upon to figure out what is scummy benefits town at all? could you please make an effort to help people make the correct lynch today?
After 2 non flips I'm not sure of anything anymore. What I feel strongest about is that Blazinghand, Refallen and Grack are town. I know I am and I'm hoping HoD is. As I said before if he is in reality the AoD we're pretty screwed. That leaves Bluelightz, Dirkzor, Tyrran, Zephirdd and you as scum combinations. Entirely possible one of you is town as well. I don't know what RoL, Wiggles or Syllo were. Syllo I thought was town. RoL and Wiggles could be anything. All we know with with 100% certainty is Palmar was a demon. Of those 5 I have listed I still see Dirkzor as a demon and Bluelightz as a probable angel. Refallen I believe thinks it's the opposite. If HoD is indeed town he makes an excellent case on you. However if he's right you're a demon. If you are a Demon then it becomes a question of balance. If both scum teams are at 2 v 2 I think the Demon team has the advantage. If it is 3 v 2 Angels then yes an Angel needs to be lynched today. Finding scum in a game where half the flips are revealed is difficult. Trying to determine which faction those you think are scum belongs to is even harder. If I had a gun to my head and had to pick a player to lynch today it would be Bluelightz. Because I think he is an Angel and we have yet to see an Angel flip.
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hmm... I think a bluelightz lynch is a very weird lynch at this point. With so much info on layabout/HoD I think it would be better to figure out which one of them is scum - if not both?
I just thought i had figured it out with my above post but as soon as i posted it something else came up and folded my theory.
I'm just lost.
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HoD has not been cleared of (what was a very strong chance) being the AoD.
Lame speculation based argument that you seem to prefer to analysis:
+ Show Spoiler +Syllogism believed that Mr. Wiggles was the sage.Syllogism believed that HoD was an Angel.
If syllogism was a demon then the demons could have twisted him and 100% protected him from an angel hit.
If syllogism was an angel then the angels had no reason to kill him.
The plus channeller would have know that by protecting syllogism 2 days in a row (if Palmar transported day1 then channeller could still save syllogism) when everyone knows that the courier was dead syllogism would have no protection on the next night. Given the no-AoD kill and likelihoods of HoD or Syllo being banished and the fact that syllo wanted to lynch risk nuke (who isn't an angel) AoD-ing syllogism night 2 would have been very risky move for angels.
If Wiggles was the channeller then he condemned a town syllogism to death last night. Do you really think he would do that?
We can fairly safely assume that syllogism was town.
We can therefore look at his posts knowing they were from a town syllogism that was disappointed in how town was playing, but that his posts were made from the point of somebody who was-town aligned.
Syllogism believed that HoD's sage claim was not only a lie but a valid claim for angels to make.
Syllogism puts actual thought into his reads, do you?
I have said why i find the sage claim rubbish http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13154469
We do not know if the sage is alive. If the sage is alive they might not wish to claim, particularly if they don't have any "demon" results.
I criticised what i felt was a case that i think town could not have legitimately got behind. I did not know that Palmar would flip scum, and criticising wiggles case and pushing my own case is not something that you can say makes me scummy, because it makes complete sense when look at from the perspective of me being town, and similarly makes sense if looked at from teh perspective of my being a demon, (it is however a risky thing to do as scum)
Without the banish we are still left in a situation in which HoD has a very high chance of being the AoD.
Tunnel my left bum-cheek. On day 2 the reason we lynched RoL over HoD was that banishing HoD would let us confirm that he wasn't the AoD and we would be able to use that to-re-asses the case on HoD.
Look at my case on HoD look at how HoD is behaving.
It makes complete sense for him to act this way if he is an angel, especially the AoD.
His "layabout was twisted" claim has been the basis for thinking i might be scum.
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HoD allignment boils down to this:
Was RoL telling the truth about him being the channeler?
- If yes
Wiggles was the sage and HoD can easily be lying.
- If no
Wiggles was the channeler and HoD is telling the truth. There is no counter claim.
Thats the answer I'm trying to find and I can't.
On January 16 2012 19:00 Blazinghand wrote:Let me tell you my reasoning on this subject. After the lynch I did some research and thought RoL was the channeller. and here's why. Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 00:54 Zona wrote:
The Q&A post has been updated with new questions and their answers Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 15:41 Zona wrote:
Can the town channeller choose not to act, and can he choose to perform his action on himself?
Yes, the town channeler can choose not to act, and no, the channeler cannot target him/herself. If Wiggles was long dead, why did on January 15 at 00:54 KST someone ask about the channeler's self-protecting ability? No, that was RoL, deciding if he should claim or not. He is aggressively going after me, then here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=41447¤tpage=5in his filter, you see him change tack, just after the new Q+A is added. he no longer attacks me and rather comfortably decides to claim.
Why would RoL need to know the answer to that question if he was a lying angel? Why would he need to know if he was the channeler?
If he was lying angel scum he would like to know if he could not banish in order to make up some story why he didn't use his powers since he didn't have any, but the other question is entirely irrelevant.
If he was the real deal he would like to know if he could banish himself = to save himself. That is clear from the OP - which i assume he have read. Why the need to know if he could not banish?
Note:
+ Show Spoiler +
Once the game begins (roles have been distributed), players should ask their questions about the game via PM. If any questions do involve legitimately unclear, or missing and necessary public information, the question will be publicly answered in the thread without identifying the person asking the question (the question may possibly be paraphrased). If any questions do involve legitimately unclear, or missing and necessary private information, the question will be privately answered by PM
To further investigate this I took a look at the timeline.
HoD's claim.
On January 14 2012 13:25 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
Oh hai bandwagon.
I am the sage.
RoL first post after the claim from HoD
On January 14 2012 23:42 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 22:40 layabout wrote:
Nothing about HoD defence suggests to me that he is town.
But banishing him allows us to determine whether he is the AoD.
(it is improbable that he would be banished, the AoD would be somebody else, and they would then miss).
Rest of the post deleted
Zona's update of Q&A. Little more then an hour after RoL had come back to the thread. The timeline fits with RoL PM'ing that question to Zona.
On January 15 2012 00:54 Zona wrote:
The Q&A post has been updated with new questions and their answers
RoL's claim:
On January 15 2012 06:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I am working and just turned my laptop on in the back. It's pathetic that it even came to this, I have no idea how you managed to scrounge up 5 votes on me, but the fact now is they need one more vote before demons can force hammer me with the corrupted.
So now I have to claim, I am the Channeler. I need to finish closing now, but I will be back before the deadline. I will prove myself by claiming my action before the next day post.
Reading that now makes me wonder how I came to another conclusion when it was posted. This doesn't look like an angel trying to lie. This looks like a townie who have given up. He was going to get killed and he realized that. Compare that to HoD claim which was way more elaborate and constructed.
So all in all I believe RoL's claim more then HoD. Anyone agrees/disagrees?
Also i would like your statement on the first paragraph (HoD allignment part) whether you think it have any merits?
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I have caught the angel of death and you are letting him get away from the lynch.
Since i am town i know i am not an angel.
If you think i am a demon + Show Spoiler +because you cannot think critically
If you think i am town then you think i am not an angel.
Unless anybody actually thinks i am an angel i think it is fair to say that no-matter what lynching me will not kill an angel.
If you were to lynch me this means that town absolutely must lynch an angel tomorrow or face very probable doom.
We have 0 angel flips so far and if we do not kill an angel today or tomorrow then they will almost certainly win:
(assuming the angels do not hit twisted players)
today:
10 players alive 2 or 3 are angels:
In 2 days:
2 lynches on non-angels 8 players alive - 2 or 3 angels,
2 AoD kills 6 players alive 2 or 3 angels 2 no-flips
up 2 to demon hunter kills 4-6 players alive 2 or 3 angels
up to two (unlikely) Acolyte kills 2-6 players alive 2 or 3 angels
+ Show Spoiler +of course if the DH were to not shoot then the demons would stand a very good chance of winning, and the angels would have less of a chance
You:"layabout that is fearmongering"
Me: "It's the truth"
Even if you think i am a demon, the optimal play is to kill an angel either today or tomorrow.
By lynching me you essentially ensure lylo tomorrow. And it is the angels who who win.
You cannot allow HoD to get away with this.
(plus there is not a substantial/considerable/valid/strong/reasonable/sensible/logical/coherent/anyoftheabove case on me)
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layabout, about RoL. Do you think he was the Channeler or an Angel?
You bring valid points, and HoD claiming twisted exactly on the one person that made a hugeass read on him is incredibly weird; He frees himself from the "demon/notdemon" guiltiness while bringing attention to you.
I do believe that you are possibly a demon, but right now we need to lynch an Angel. The DH can take care of you(Blazinghand for the sake of it) at night to reduce demon voting power.
Blazinghand, fucking claim who is not dark. That means one target clear for the DH. Don't wait until you believe you know what to do, or was Spaackle your corrupted town and you are claiming now to gain cred?
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
demons, I am requesting your help. read this post carefully if you want to have a chance to win this game. currently you are in control of my vote, and i cannot change that.
we need to lynch an angel and you guys have a better idea of who that is than the town does.
You guys have a set of information that I do not.
1) was layabout actually twisted? (is HoD's claim real)
2) what was RoL's flip?
3) your own identities.
Please do the following
1) if you are willing to talk about whether or not layabout was twisted, move my vote onto myself.
2) if you are willing to reveal the identify of RoL's flip, move my vote onto grackaroni then onto myself.
3) otherwise, please move my vote onto your best read for angels. If that read happens to be layabout (where my vote is currently parked), indicate that this is the case by moving my vote onto myself then back onto layabout.
4) If you would like me to introduce additional options for communication via vote movement, move my vote onto jackal then onto myself.
Thank you for your help. let's lynch an angel today.
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you can't vote yourself/be voted by yourself...
I am willing to be used as a method to identifying demon speak. Use me as reference instead of BH.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
I know you guys will need some time to talk over it in your QT, and maybe you're not awake, but we've got like 27 hours left so let me know as soon as you can.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
OH ZEPHIR YOU'RE RIGHT. OK HERE'S THE NEW CODE DEMONS.
Please do the following
1) if you are willing to talk about whether or not layabout was twisted, move my vote onto ZEPHIRDD.
2) if you are willing to reveal the identify of RoL's flip, move my vote onto grackaroni then onto ZEPHIRDD.
3) otherwise, please move my vote onto your best read for angels. If that read happens to be layabout (where my vote is currently parked), indicate that this is the case by moving my vote onto ZEPHIRDD then back onto layabout.
4) If you would like me to introduce additional options for communication via vote movement, move my vote onto jackal then onto ZEPHIRDD.
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How about (since the only thing against me is the claim made by the AoD) the DH doesn't kill me?
How about the real sage if they are alive takes care of BH?
How about we lynch HoD the scummiest player in the thread and make decisions after he flips Like the Angel of death he is?
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
I'm gonna wait to see what the demons have to say about this. They need this angel lynch as much as we do.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
Final refined demon communication code:
Please do the following
1) if you are willing to talk about whether or not layabout was twisted, move my vote onto REFALLEN then ZEPHIRDD.
2) if you are willing to reveal the identify of RoL's flip, move my vote onto GRACKARONI then onto ZEPHIRDD.
3) otherwise, please move my vote onto your best read for angels. If that read happens to be LAYABOUT (where my vote is currently parked), indicate that this is the case by moving my vote onto ZEPHIRDD then back onto LAYABOUT.
4) If you would like me to introduce additional options for communication via vote movement, move my vote onto JACKAL then onto ZEPHIRDD.[/QUOTE]
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EPT
