EPTHe'll die happy. Scum will be happy. Assassins will be happy. Town will be happy. Game over.
TL Mafia XXXVIII - Page 40
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
He'll die happy. Scum will be happy. Assassins will be happy. Town will be happy. Game over. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:58 Mr. Wiggles wrote: The assassins are going to turn into the Item Game of Insane 2.... I was scum that game, so what I did, was try to keep everyone focused on the item game and away from actual analysis. I see the same thing starting to happen now, where town is going to latch onto the assassin game and get too distracted from everything else when it should be a non-issue... Anyways, Why giving out both the names of the bodyguards is not a very good idea: At their core, the bodyguard and pardoner are supposed to be very powerful roles that we would like to get a hold of and use for the benefit of the town. When used correctly, these roles seem like they'd be more than capable of wreaking havoc on the mafia and bringing town victory. If no mafia are elected into office, and they are not confident that they can sway the mayor easily, the best course of action for the reds is to kill the mayor/pardoner. In order to do so, they must first kill the two bodyguards. These bodyguards are unrevealed to the town and mafia, so first mafia need to find them as well. Now, you, Pandain, want to reveal the bodyguards to everyone. Why? To ostensibly put trackers on them in order to catch any assassins/mafia who want to take a shot at the mayor. However, doing this is cringe-worthy to say the least. So why wouldn't it work out? Mafia have four KP, and there are supposedly two other assassins. This means, that if there are no medics, that mafia can kill the two bodyguards as well as the mayor and pardoner in one fell swoop. So, what we'd achieve, is the entire public office dead, traded at the cost of one mafia revealed. The only way to counteract that, would be if we now, IN ADDITION to our trackers, put medic protection on the bodyguards as well. So, you're asking us to focus all of our blue power on two people. But then we just get into a WIFOM spiral where we need to decide to protect either the bodyguards to the detriment of all other pro-town players or other players to the detriment of our bodyguards and mayor/pardoner. In my opinion, this becomes too convoluted to even work with, when compared to keeping the bodyguards known only to the mayor/pardoner. In other words, a bad idea. you're a reasonable man i like you everyone listen to this guy if you don't you're bad or scum | ||
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tnkted
United States1359 Posts
I'd like to be mayor, if you'll have me. I'm not going to give you a big long pitch because if you've been reading my posts its pretty clear that I'm one of the only levelheaded calm people in this game so far. I'd like to run with GM, if he's alright with that, but I'm willing to let town choose. Here's my plan: We don't put Protract in office. We use the threat of the watcher WIFOM to scare off assassins from attacking him, and in exchange he provides us with analysis. Since we are offering him much less than he asked (ie, he gets no solid protection except for the self-preservation instincts of the other assassins) I'm willing to let him keep his DT and his KP, on the condition that if his DT misses he reveal to us what he learned. As your mayor I can guarantee solid scumhunting skills, a fair degree of paranoia, solid analysis, and calm and levelheadedness, perhaps the most important quality in this crazy game so far. I will be extremely cautious with my votes; I will always be one of the last to vote, and if I sense band-wagoning going on I will do my best to draw attention to it. I have a good record in this forum, albeit a short one. I was awarded the deagle award for my early game, and I managed to name the entire scum team on page 216 of that same game. My ability to manipulate the mechanics managed to get RoL to ragequit the game entirely and completely destroyed the moral of the mafia. There were definite places in that game where I made mistakes, but I'm confident in my ability to lead the town and provide throughtful, measured feedback. Don't make a rash decision here guys. Even if you don't vote for me, make sure you vote for somebody you think will give town the best chance long term. ##Vote tnkted | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:59 Pandain wrote: Hmm.... Alright. Then just keep the names hidden. And we're even safer. Think shit through please before putting up shitty plans | ||
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Pandain
United States12984 Posts
IT would still work. I just don't run. I'm not dt | ||
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OriginalName
Canada1140 Posts
Im gonna recap to myself what happened along wkth opinions Protact getting support - Why is near confirmed non town getting an elected role. PANDAIN CLAIMING DT - What. The. Fuck. Was my first reaction. my second how do we know hes not lying. Sure theres no counterclaim but who would counterclaim D1 DT, theres likely more than one so how would we know yatta yatta add in wifom done mafia has a free dt kill D1 we get no breadcrumbs. Second its completely safe for panda to claim DT as scum. Scumteam elects him as Godfather and even if DT checks and confirms its like DF all over again (minus the D2 victory). How has Pandain only gotten the your an idiot reaction- Hes just abusing his metagame to fuck with town FOS Pandain Im goin to keep my vote on GM cause as wishy washy as people are making him out to be hes still quite protown. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:01 Pandain wrote: actually you know what. IT would still work. I just don't run. I'm not dt why do you fake claim in every single fucking game | ||
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OriginalName
Canada1140 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:01 Pandain wrote: actually you know what. IT would still work. I just don't run. I'm not dt No shit sir Scumsalot | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:01 Pandain wrote: actually you know what. IT would still work. I just don't run. I'm not dt ^^ Add this guy to the lynch candidates. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
so vote for me and put protact in as pardoner so we can at least force him to use his powers for us without wasting a significant role on him imo | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:01 Pandain wrote: actually you know what. IT would still work. I just don't run. I'm not dt Ok, as part of my campaign I announced my belief in LaL, right? Well here is why, if he is a DT he just fucked himself over by claiming, if he is a townie then I dont want him around claiming who knows what, and if he is a GF then I want him dead. Thanks for hurting the town Pandain, I'm really, really tempted to make you my lynch. As a townie or a DT you had no reason to lie to get yourself elected, you could have run on your own merits by presenting the expose the bg's plan. Retarded as it was it showed thought. Lying however just threw the town into a circle of wifom, now even with a DT check we cannot be sure of your alignment, as I am inclined to believe you are the GF. if you aren't then scum is likely to try to kill you on the basis of you possibly being a DT, which means we have to waste valuable medics on you. If you dont die then the town has to worry about you being a GF in later lynches. FUCK PANDIAN, WHY? | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
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Mig
United States4714 Posts
I believe there are only 2 posts where this could be argued. The first one I made on p27 I basically said exactly what Dr.H did but I posted it at almost the exact same time as him because I was typing it up at the same time. The 2nd post that could look suspicious was on the top of p28. In that post I made 2 points that hadn't been mentioned previously. That A) if we were worried about prot not doing what we tell him if he becomes mayor we can control him with the medics. If we just give him medic protection then hes basically held hostage by us since if he doesn't do exactly what we want we can just not protect him and we don't lose anything. B) that its still a risk to use medics on him since we don't know the actual role numbers and the assassins may outnumber our medics to where we can't possibly protect him. Someone said I was wishy washy for listing both points but I was trying to discuss what our optimal play was so I listed the pros and cons as I saw them, I still gave my opinion that it was too risky to use our medics on him. I want to add I think it is suspicious how Dr.H is playing. It's in the best interest for the town for the new players to post as much as possible. They are the ones most likely to give up information and they will be most easily read by the vets so the more they post the better. With how Dr.H is playing it really discourages new people from posting out of fear that they may just be labeled as bandwagoning onto other pro town comments. Dr.H can say hes just putting pressure on people to force mistakes but I think attacking the new players would be a very viable strategy for an aggressive mafia. After they attack a new player its likely the new player will either attack them back blindly or will start to post less. Either of which would make the new player appear suspicious. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:09 Mig wrote: A couple things since Dr.H is still saying I am mafia. It's incorrect to say all I I am trying to do is repeat pro town comments. I believe there are only 2 posts where this could be argued. The first one I made on p27 I basically said exactly what Dr.H did but I posted it at almost the exact same time as him because I was typing it up at the same time. The 2nd post that could look suspicious was on the top of p28. In that post I made 2 points that hadn't been mentioned previously. That A) if we were worried about prot not doing what we tell him if he becomes mayor we can control him with the medics. If we just give him medic protection then hes basically held hostage by us since if he doesn't do exactly what we want we can just not protect him and we don't lose anything. B) that its still a risk to use medics on him since we don't know the actual role numbers and the assassins may outnumber our medics to where we can't possibly protect him. Someone said I was wishy washy for listing both points but I was trying to discuss what our optimal play was so I listed the pros and cons as I saw them, I still gave my opinion that it was too risky to use our medics on him. I want to add I think it is suspicious how Dr.H is playing. It's in the best interest for the town for the new players to post as much as possible. They are the ones most likely to give up information and they will be most easily read by the vets so the more they post the better. With how Dr.H is playing it really discourages new people from posting out of fear that they may just be labeled as bandwagoning onto other pro town comments. Dr.H can say hes just putting pressure on people to force mistakes but I think attacking the new players would be a very viable strategy for an aggressive mafia. After they attack a new player its likely the new player will either attack them back blindly or will start to post less. Either of which would make the new player appear suspicious. now im 100% sure | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote: so vote for me and put protact in as pardoner so we can at least force him to use his powers for us without wasting a significant role on him imo we can't "force" him to do anything without hurting the town... we've gone through this, the only conceivable plan of forcing him to do anything wastes far too many town resources. We can *hope* he does what he says he will, and I'm not voting based on *hope*. Either way, I'm done arguing about pro. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote: This is the big tl;dr post where I explain all my thoughts I think I've done all the poking and prodding I can. We're in a sticky situation and we need to make the best of it. So I'll lay out my platform simply. -Protactinium should NOT be mayor. The mayor role is designed to be very helpful to either town/mafia depending on who gets it. Our goal is not to simply have non-scum as mayor, our goal is to have town as mayor. Why? More votes. Protactinium has no interest in who is lynched, he will simply vote the way the "town" wants him to so that he is not lynched himself. This is bad. Huh? Shouldn't the mayor use his votes the way the town wants? No, because the town is quite often wrong. Mafia will manipulate/split bandwagons and then try to influence the mayor to pad the lynch they want. The mayor should always vote for the person HE thinks is scum. The mayor should act autonomously and vote based on his own thoughts and instincts. An autonomous third party mayor is a terrible idea, an autonomous town-aligned mayor is not. -I'm okay with Protactinium being Pardoner. This will give him some protection and allow us to threaten him into using his DT check/kill power where we want it. The pardoner power is pretty insignificant compared to the mayoral power and I suppose we could make some use of him. As long as our focus is using proactinium to find scum NOT using him to find other assassins. -Pandain is stupid and bad. You should never roleclaim DT day 1 and he is essentially using his role to hold us hostage into voting for him. This makes perfect sense if he is godfather and it makes even more sense if he is on a scumteam with Protactinium. Unfortunately, DT is probably the most valuable town role and I really hate the idea of just letting him die. Pandain is a terrible scumhunter and is bad at almost every aspect of the game and the idea of him in a leadership position makes my skin crawl. I would be okay if he was pardoner and no one took him seriously/listened to him by accident. -This idea that you can't scumhunt on day 1 is retarded. That's my favorite bad point to make when I'm mafia. yeah the game is designed on the assumption that town mislynches on the first day. But we should all absolutely be focused on figuring out who is scum, who isn't. What is each persons motivation. WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH BY POSTING THIS. that's the question you should ask! Not: -what contradictions do they make (townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia) i'm gonna repeat that 100 times for emphasis: townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia Okay. These are scenarios I am somewhat comfortable with: Mayor/Pardoner: Myself/Protactinium Gmarshal/Protacinium Gmarshal/Pandain Scenarios I prefer: Myself/Pandain Myself/Coagulation Myself/Gmarshal Gmarshal/Myself Gmarshal/Pandain Pandain might be the DT. Give him a worthless role like pardoner and watch him closely. I don't want to throw the DT away or waste medics on someone like him. Who I feel comfortable lynching and why: Kavdragon - His posts after role PMs were sent were designed to do two things. To seem as pro-town and helpful as possible and to contribute nothing at all. Lots of obvious "advice" and redundant bullshit. When called out he becomes defensive and tries to turn the tables on me. Not good. However kavdragon is a useful player if town, this is a risky lynch choice but I have a strong scum read on him. mib - Same deal. Tries to "contribute" but says nothing at all. Regurgitates talking points from previously in the thread and has a bad excuse to explain why that is. He's a new player and mostly inactive so lynching him should be no big loss if he's town anyway. So that's my thoughts. My plan is to have myself as mayor, I will disregard everything the town says completely, and to have pandain as pardoner so if he is DT he doesn't die. If bodyguards start dying, lynch pandain. He's an idiot so it won't be long before he fucks up if he faked his roleclaim, so I feel pretty safe about that. You piss me off with almost every post. You remind me of me. I'll second your first option. You as mayor. Protactinium as pardoner. Your second option isn't too shabby either. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:10 GMarshal wrote: we can't "force" him to do anything without hurting the town... we've gone through this, the only conceivable plan of forcing him to do anything wastes far too many town resources. We can *hope* he does what he says he will, and I'm not voting based on *hope*. Either way, I'm done arguing about pro. I think if he is at least put up as pardoner then we will shut up about him at least. As long as he agrees to use his check on our whim I don't see the problem with that. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:40 chaoser wrote: So you want to become mayor, put our BGs in danger, and if they die, tie up our medics to protect you. Yeah...ok Please don't edit. You know better. On April 11 2011 05:38 redFF wrote: btw this is fun as fuck and i will be playing tl mafia for quite a while ^^ Glad to hear it ^^ | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:01 Pandain wrote: actually you know what. IT would still work. I just don't run. I'm not dt After reading through Pandain's flight of fancy, I just wanted to give my two cents. Assuming Pandain is either green or scum, which I'm going to because anything else is going to break my brain/heart/misc vital organs, I still believe protecting Protact with the Pardoner position only is a good idea. Arguing about assassin business is not. Just forget he's an assassin imo, which is why I don't endorse him for Mayor. That would make it impossible to forget he's black. I have no idea about who should be mayor. I want someone who's calm, collected, and proven a good analyst. Someone people can get behind and argue with without creating a mess for scum to hide behind. The more vets post about each mayoral candidate and their thoughts, the better reads we newbies can get on the whole thing. Sorry if any of my points are disagreeable, I am admittedly new at this. | ||
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