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On April 11 2011 05:24 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:22 TranceStorm wrote:On April 11 2011 05:13 chaoser wrote:On April 11 2011 05:08 TranceStorm wrote:On April 11 2011 04:56 Pandain wrote:
But this is the PANDAIN PLAN
1.Proctat reveal the two bodyguards.
2. Watchers are HEAVILY advised to visit these people. Obviously there may not be a watcher(even though there likely is.) But the most important thing is that the threat remains the same.
This makes it very risky for the other assasins to even attempt to shoot the bodyguards for fear of losing. They will most likely have to wait a couple days, during which we shall have ample time to find them.
Proctat will be helping town while still fulfilling his role condition. There is no reason not to vote for him.
Sure, this will keep the bodyguards alive and keep the the people elected alive, but it will definitely take away the usefulness of the watcher, since the mafia/assassins' will be guaranteed to steer clear of them. Furthermore, if the mafia/assassins were to accidentally hit the watchers, the following turn we could be pretty sure that the bodyguards would be dead as well since they've been outed. Sup Trancestorm, nice to know you've been lurking and reading all of the stuff but saying nothing about it. What do you think about Prot's campaign? Kita? DrH? Hey, I just got on the thread and read all the stuff, and Pandian's points were the first I had something to respond to. Personally, as I said earlier, I feel uneasy about Prot's campaign because of his potential for swapping allegiances later in the game. The other candidate's I don't have any clear reads on since there is absolutely no and since we can't confirm anything. I'm inclined to believe that Pandian is the detective from my personal gut feeling from his original post though, even though I don't think his idea to reveal himself was all the great for the town. Please explain. As I see right now, Proctat's only allegience is to himself. But we also hold him by the strings: We can lynch him if he tries to go against us. Right now Proctat will be: 1.Sharing dt results.
2.Giving vital information and using his experience to help lynch correctly.
3.Confirm the two bodyguards.
I explained in a post that I made much earlier that Prot has the potential to change his allegiance at any time. At moments when the mafia/town counts become more even, Prot could throw his weight behind an assassin suspect rather than a mafia suspect in hopes of winning the game immediately. None of this will happen in the first few days of course, but the fact that it could happen combined with the fact that he can kill without repercussion (or recognition) makes me uneasy about electing him. Electing a pro-town candidate will guarantee that the elected officials are constantly hunting for mafia rather than looking to further their own win-condition.
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btw this is fun as fuck and i will be playing tl mafia for quite a while ^^
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:26 Pandain wrote:
Also wtf is with this bias against me?
Seriously?
I'm a good analyzer. When I'm not goofing off, I get shit down. Shit gets real when Pandain's in the house.
I survived Insane Mafia 1 through constant suspicion and poking.
Why are you using a game where you were godfather to convince people we should elect you. Are you serious? -_-
On April 11 2011 05:32 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
so that we can indefinitely protect the third party assassin and waste our time talking about him while the scum manipulate us duh
are you scum redFF? that's the only reason you wouldn't think it's a good idea So we can protect someone who will give us: 1.DT results.
2.Dt results again(me)
3.Valuable scum hunting ability. Furthermore for the love of god why don't you start talking about who's mafia? Personally anyone who says they have a strong read day 1 is pretty dumb, given its day 1! What's more important than deciding the mayor right now? Especially if he could be an assassin!
The fact that you are discouraging day one scum hunting concerns me. Even if it is unlikely to catch a day one lynch, doesn't mean we shouldn't pressure. Right when protract achieves his win condition, he is removed from the game....do we really want to have our mayor disappear mid-game?
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And if bodyguards do die(after at least a couple days), then we shall have not only a couple mafia/assassins dead but medics can protect me now.
Medics can protect me now.
Medics can protect me now.
Medics can protect me now.
So you want to become mayor, put our BGs in danger, and if they die, tie up our medics to protect you. Yeah...ok
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as much as i would like to see pandain dead asap. apparently hes a DT so now we have to keep him alive as long as possible. the gods are cruel.
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I'm feeling uneasy that claiming roles and shitting up a storm is helping to keep the mafia safe and the town not united.
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United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:40 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +And if bodyguards do die(after at least a couple days), then we shall have not only a couple mafia/assassins dead but medics can protect me now. No comment. Can we just lynch pandain day 1 like we always joke we will?
You know I was seriously considering that... right now he seems like a liability to the town, his claim seems dubious to me, I actually fear he could just be a vanilla townie claiming DT for shits and giggles. However its most likely a waste, the mafia will take care of him (unless he is the gf, in which case we lynch him day 2 ^_^)
I also think that using the BG's as bait is retarded, especialy considering that if you put a watcher on the the bg, he is going to see the other watchers, any stray medics, and any assassins/mafia hitting them. congrats, the watcher now has to give out a list containing quite a few blue roles to get a single scum, wonderful, glad its such a well thought out plan.
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Chaoser dont edit u scummy fuck
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wtf...might be cause TL's been going down due to TSL and I clicked post multiple times/refreshed. Flamewheel can check my msg but it should be 100% the same as what's up there now.
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On April 11 2011 05:51 Coagulation wrote:
YA u did i watched it.
Yeah, my bad. It wasn't on purpose though.
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On April 11 2011 05:38 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:24 Pandain wrote:On April 11 2011 05:22 TranceStorm wrote:On April 11 2011 05:13 chaoser wrote:On April 11 2011 05:08 TranceStorm wrote:On April 11 2011 04:56 Pandain wrote:
But this is the PANDAIN PLAN
1.Proctat reveal the two bodyguards.
2. Watchers are HEAVILY advised to visit these people. Obviously there may not be a watcher(even though there likely is.) But the most important thing is that the threat remains the same.
This makes it very risky for the other assasins to even attempt to shoot the bodyguards for fear of losing. They will most likely have to wait a couple days, during which we shall have ample time to find them.
Proctat will be helping town while still fulfilling his role condition. There is no reason not to vote for him.
Sure, this will keep the bodyguards alive and keep the the people elected alive, but it will definitely take away the usefulness of the watcher, since the mafia/assassins' will be guaranteed to steer clear of them. Furthermore, if the mafia/assassins were to accidentally hit the watchers, the following turn we could be pretty sure that the bodyguards would be dead as well since they've been outed. Sup Trancestorm, nice to know you've been lurking and reading all of the stuff but saying nothing about it. What do you think about Prot's campaign? Kita? DrH? Hey, I just got on the thread and read all the stuff, and Pandian's points were the first I had something to respond to. Personally, as I said earlier, I feel uneasy about Prot's campaign because of his potential for swapping allegiances later in the game. The other candidate's I don't have any clear reads on since there is absolutely no and since we can't confirm anything. I'm inclined to believe that Pandian is the detective from my personal gut feeling from his original post though, even though I don't think his idea to reveal himself was all the great for the town. Please explain. As I see right now, Proctat's only allegience is to himself. But we also hold him by the strings: We can lynch him if he tries to go against us. Right now Proctat will be: 1.Sharing dt results.
2.Giving vital information and using his experience to help lynch correctly.
3.Confirm the two bodyguards. I explained in a post that I made much earlier that Prot has the potential to change his allegiance at any time. At moments when the mafia/town counts become more even, Prot could throw his weight behind an assassin suspect rather than a mafia suspect in hopes of winning the game immediately. None of this will happen in the first few days of course, but the fact that it could happen combined with the fact that he can kill without repercussion (or recognition) makes me uneasy about electing him. Electing a pro-town candidate will guarantee that the elected officials are constantly hunting for mafia rather than looking to further their own win-condition.
This is a decent point, but is easily swept aside.
In that scenario, lynching an assasin will not be game over(we will not have lynched town.)
Furthormore, Proctact WILL have reprucussions if he goes against the will of the town(we'll lynch him.)
Procact is pro town in the regards that he will give us benefits, and we are certain he is not mafia.
And in the end that's what we want out of a mayor.
On April 11 2011 05:39 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:26 Pandain wrote:
Also wtf is with this bias against me?
Seriously?
I'm a good analyzer. When I'm not goofing off, I get shit down. Shit gets real when Pandain's in the house.
I survived Insane Mafia 1 through constant suspicion and poking. Why are you using a game where you were godfather to convince people we should elect you. Are you serious? -_- Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:32 Pandain wrote:On April 11 2011 05:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
so that we can indefinitely protect the third party assassin and waste our time talking about him while the scum manipulate us duh
are you scum redFF? that's the only reason you wouldn't think it's a good idea So we can protect someone who will give us: 1.DT results.
2.Dt results again(me)
3.Valuable scum hunting ability. Furthermore for the love of god why don't you start talking about who's mafia? Personally anyone who says they have a strong read day 1 is pretty dumb, given its day 1! What's more important than deciding the mayor right now? Especially if he could be an assassin! The fact that you are discouraging day one scum hunting concerns me. Even if it is unlikely to catch a day one lynch, doesn't mean we shouldn't pressure. Right when protract achieves his win condition, he is removed from the game....do we really want to have our mayor disappear mid-game?
I'm using that to get rid of the notion that I'm somehow retarded. Everything I do is well thought out, I'm not a new player, and I know this game.
On April 11 2011 05:40 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +And if bodyguards do die(after at least a couple days), then we shall have not only a couple mafia/assassins dead but medics can protect me now. So you want to become mayor, put our BGs in danger, and if they die, tie up our medics to protect you. Yeah...ok
First off, don't edit.
Second off, I expected this kind of bullshit from others. I didn't expect it from you.
How can anyone say that having two mafia(from being watched) dead is NOT worth having two townies dead?
And how can you say that having medics protect a DT is bad?
On April 11 2011 05:46 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:40 chaoser wrote:And if bodyguards do die(after at least a couple days), then we shall have not only a couple mafia/assassins dead but medics can protect me now. No comment. Can we just lynch pandain day 1 like we always joke we will? You know I was seriously considering that... right now he seems like a liability to the town, his claim seems dubious to me, I actually fear he could just be a vanilla townie claiming DT for shits and giggles. However its most likely a waste, the mafia will take care of him (unless he is the gf, in which case we lynch him day 2 ^_^) I also think that using the BG's as bait is retarded, especialy considering that if you put a watcher on the the bg, he is going to see the other watchers, any stray medics, and any assassins/mafia hitting them. congrats, the watcher now has to give out a list containing quite a few blue roles to get a single scum, wonderful, glad its such a well thought out plan.
1.In the HIGHLY unlikely scenario that there is a 2nd watcher, it means that:
a)We shall still have caught a mafia.
Furthormore, no medics are going to be protecting those people, as that would ruin the plan.
And we want to watch assasins/mafia hitting them. That's the point.
So no blue roles besides maybe one watcher will go out, and even that's unlikely. And if mafia have to spend a whole kp just to try and hit proctact/I(and still not be able to) that's great.
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How can anyone say that having two mafia(from being watched) dead is NOT worth having two townies dead?
This is assuming we only have two watchers, they both watch different bodyguards, there's not medics, nosy neighbors, etc. visiting the bodyguards as well.
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Assuming we even HAVE watchers.
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The point is that the threat is there. I've already mentioned that.
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The assassins are going to turn into the Item Game of Insane 2....
I was scum that game, so what I did, was try to keep everyone focused on the item game and away from actual analysis. I see the same thing starting to happen now, where town is going to latch onto the assassin game and get too distracted from everything else when it should be a non-issue...
Anyways, Why giving out both the names of the bodyguards is not a very good idea:
At their core, the bodyguard and pardoner are supposed to be very powerful roles that we would like to get a hold of and use for the benefit of the town. When used correctly, these roles seem like they'd be more than capable of wreaking havoc on the mafia and bringing town victory.
If no mafia are elected into office, and they are not confident that they can sway the mayor easily, the best course of action for the reds is to kill the mayor/pardoner. In order to do so, they must first kill the two bodyguards. These bodyguards are unrevealed to the town and mafia, so first mafia need to find them as well.
Now, you, Pandain, want to reveal the bodyguards to everyone. Why? To ostensibly put trackers on them in order to catch any assassins/mafia who want to take a shot at the mayor. However, doing this is cringe-worthy to say the least. So why wouldn't it work out? Mafia have four KP, and there are supposedly two other assassins. This means, that if there are no medics, that mafia can kill the two bodyguards as well as the mayor and pardoner in one fell swoop. So, what we'd achieve, is the entire public office dead, traded at the cost of one mafia revealed. The only way to counteract that, would be if we now, IN ADDITION to our trackers, put medic protection on the bodyguards as well. So, you're asking us to focus all of our blue power on two people. But then we just get into a WIFOM spiral where we need to decide to protect either the bodyguards to the detriment of all other pro-town players or other players to the detriment of our bodyguards and mayor/pardoner.
In my opinion, this becomes too convoluted to even work with, when compared to keeping the bodyguards known only to the mayor/pardoner. In other words, a bad idea.
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Hmm....
Alright.
Then just keep the names hidden.
And we're even safer.
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On April 11 2011 05:57 Pandain wrote:
The point is that the threat is there. I've already mentioned that.
And they can not give a shit, shoot into it, counter claim, buy another day, etc. Tons of stuff can go wrong. If I was mafia and I saw this happening I'd jump for joy. Outting your own BG? Awesome!
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This is the big tl;dr post where I explain all my thoughts
I think I've done all the poking and prodding I can. We're in a sticky situation and we need to make the best of it. So I'll lay out my platform simply.
-Protactinium should NOT be mayor. The mayor role is designed to be very helpful to either town/mafia depending on who gets it. Our goal is not to simply have non-scum as mayor, our goal is to have town as mayor. Why? More votes. Protactinium has no interest in who is lynched, he will simply vote the way the "town" wants him to so that he is not lynched himself. This is bad.
Huh? Shouldn't the mayor use his votes the way the town wants?
No, because the town is quite often wrong. Mafia will manipulate/split bandwagons and then try to influence the mayor to pad the lynch they want. The mayor should always vote for the person HE thinks is scum. The mayor should act autonomously and vote based on his own thoughts and instincts. An autonomous third party mayor is a terrible idea, an autonomous town-aligned mayor is not.
-I'm okay with Protactinium being Pardoner. This will give him some protection and allow us to threaten him into using his DT check/kill power where we want it. The pardoner power is pretty insignificant compared to the mayoral power and I suppose we could make some use of him. As long as our focus is using proactinium to find scum NOT using him to find other assassins.
-Pandain is stupid and bad. You should never roleclaim DT day 1 and he is essentially using his role to hold us hostage into voting for him. This makes perfect sense if he is godfather and it makes even more sense if he is on a scumteam with Protactinium. Unfortunately, DT is probably the most valuable town role and I really hate the idea of just letting him die. Pandain is a terrible scumhunter and is bad at almost every aspect of the game and the idea of him in a leadership position makes my skin crawl. I would be okay if he was pardoner and no one took him seriously/listened to him by accident.
-This idea that you can't scumhunt on day 1 is retarded. That's my favorite bad point to make when I'm mafia. yeah the game is designed on the assumption that town mislynches on the first day. But we should all absolutely be focused on figuring out who is scum, who isn't. What is each persons motivation. WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH BY POSTING THIS. that's the question you should ask! Not:
-what contradictions do they make (townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia)
i'm gonna repeat that 100 times for emphasis:
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia
Okay. These are scenarios I am somewhat comfortable with:
Mayor/Pardoner:
Myself/Protactinium
Gmarshal/Protacinium
Gmarshal/Pandain
Scenarios I prefer:
Myself/Pandain
Myself/Coagulation
Myself/Gmarshal
Gmarshal/Myself
Gmarshal/Pandain
Pandain might be the DT. Give him a worthless role like pardoner and watch him closely. I don't want to throw the DT away or waste medics on someone like him.
Who I feel comfortable lynching and why:
Kavdragon - His posts after role PMs were sent were designed to do two things. To seem as pro-town and helpful as possible and to contribute nothing at all. Lots of obvious "advice" and redundant bullshit. When called out he becomes defensive and tries to turn the tables on me. Not good. However kavdragon is a useful player if town, this is a risky lynch choice but I have a strong scum read on him.
mib - Same deal. Tries to "contribute" but says nothing at all. Regurgitates talking points from previously in the thread and has a bad excuse to explain why that is. He's a new player and mostly inactive so lynching him should be no big loss if he's town anyway.
So that's my thoughts. My plan is to have myself as mayor, I will disregard everything the town says completely, and to have pandain as pardoner so if he is DT he doesn't die. If bodyguards start dying, lynch pandain. He's an idiot so it won't be long before he fucks up if he faked his roleclaim, so I feel pretty safe about that.
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EPT
