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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
hmm, just remembered that CompVig can't shoot until night two, so that role will effectively stay hidden until that point.
Qatol mentioned earlier that we should vote on who the Comp Vig kills. This seems like a great plan, and if anyone has any objections then bring them out. If the role landed in townie hands, it allows us to come to a decision as a group, and effectively double lynch each day. It also takes the risk away of a townie with poor judgment shooting up the town.
If the role is in mafia hands, either they play along(which is great) or they don't. If they don't play along, we immediately know that CompVig = Mafia. Since we know the CompVig is high up on the draft list, we can quickly zero in on a mafia.
So no matter who has the CompVig, we should be able to control it by voting in thread for who gets killed. Any town player would play along(given it would be extremely anti-town to not) and the mafia either go along or get quickly weeded out.
So lets add a ##CompVig: Ace## to when we vote(starting on Day 2).
Again if anyone has objections to this lets hear it. The big fuckup I can see is if the CompVig somehow slipped down the list into mafia hands, but I think this unlikely.
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On May 02 2010 19:57 Radfield wrote:
hmm, just remembered that CompVig can't shoot until night two, so that role will effectively stay hidden until that point.
Qatol mentioned earlier that we should vote on who the Comp Vig kills. This seems like a great plan, and if anyone has any objections then bring them out. If the role landed in townie hands, it allows us to come to a decision as a group, and effectively double lynch each day. It also takes the risk away of a townie with poor judgment shooting up the town.
If the role is in mafia hands, either they play along(which is great) or they don't. If they don't play along, we immediately know that CompVig = Mafia. Since we know the CompVig is high up on the draft list, we can quickly zero in on a mafia.
So no matter who has the CompVig, we should be able to control it by voting in thread for who gets killed. Any town player would play along(given it would be extremely anti-town to not) and the mafia either go along or get quickly weeded out.
So lets add a ##CompVig: Ace## to when we vote(starting on Day 2).
Again if anyone has objections to this lets hear it. The big fuckup I can see is if the CompVig somehow slipped down the list into mafia hands, but I think this unlikely.
This is a good idea, I think we should follow it.
If the compulsive vig is town-aligned, he or she should trust the town's collective judgement over his/her own. Look at World at War and Red Army for striking examples of many town-aligned nukers or shooters killing fellow town members left and right by following their own "instincts".
If the compulsive vig is mafia-aligned, he or she could follow the town's will to lessen suspicion (until the town votes on one of their own), but that would be fine as town is directing the kills until an obvious change occurs, which can be dealt with when it occurs (perhaps by lynching the overlooked target). If the mafia-aligned compulsive vig doesn't follow the town's will, we wouldn't have been able to do anything about it anyways, AND it's a clear sign we need to identify the vig and nullify them as soon as possible.
The only kink in the plan is if a town-aligned compulsive vig still doesn't go along with town direction, which would screw everyone over. But given that both Red Army and World at War started with a lot of town members agreeing not to shoot recklessly and ended up with just that...
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My stance on any and all claiming at this point on the game:
Right now my view is that the most important roles for town to protect (if they are indeed in town hands) are inventor, tracker, and to a lesser extent, alignment cop. Compulsive vig in the hands of a town member who follows our plan in theory is a town advantage, by having a pseudo-double lynch every day, but can still speed things more quickly to an endgame situation, especially if town's judgement is poor.
Our doctors are not necessarily reliable and might even worry about being the weak variant, so it's best to give our investigators another layer of protection by letting them stay in obscurity and harder for mafia and the serial killer to identify. Every public claim from an honest town member removes a person from the list that mafia needs to consider when trying to pick off the investigators - so I am against any and all public claims. But Korynne's already given out some information that can't be taken back, we may or may not want to resolve this then suppress all further claims.
Also - every keep Qatol's number breakdown post in mind when we get to the late game.
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Alignment cop - a proposed plan for you:
The first priority for you is to identify your own sanity - otherwise whatever results you get cannot be interpreted in a useful way. It may be best for you to target people you think might die quickly - whether by lynch or nightkill, so when they flip you likely will figure out your alignment immediately.
If you ever get an innocent result, you will then know you're not paranoid and thus USEFUL! If you haven't gotten any innocent results yet at some point in the game, you need to investigate more to ensure you're not paranoid.
An alternative method is to target two people on night 1 and 2 you think are on different teams, and see if you get different results, but I think this way is more chancy. Still, I'm listing it here so you can consider it.
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Sorry guys for not claiming, was gone yesterday and the day before, I'm just glad I didn't get modkilled. I'll try to make up for it by being a more active townie than last game. Now time to read the rest of the thread.
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Alright after reading, I don't really have any new thoughts, but I'd still like to show my agreement for a few points. First off, I agree that all roles should remain private. With mafia only having 1kp per night, it's seems that we wouldn't screw ourselves over too badly with everyone claiming, and it would be easier for doctors to make their protects, but since I doubt they'd all be able to protect every vital role or guess correctly every night, I agree Zona's point on giving our important roles an extra layer of protection by not having us know who they are.
Also, maybe I'm not thinking straight right now, but I'm almost leaning towards setting up a townie to be lynched on the second day so we can tell all cops in this thread to investigate them. That way all the the cops will know fairly quickly what sanity they have.
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Oh, sorry, I'm not sure if this was already mentioned earlier in this thread (or even the OP, but I didn't see it there), but what's the limit to how many alignment cops can be in this game? Because if it's only one then that plan probably wouldn't be worth it, and I'm only proposing that idea under the (perhaps naive) belief that mafia only have a nightly kp of 1 will give us some leeway so we don't feel pressured to hit scum everyday.
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I picked at compulsive vig but it was taken before me if that helps...sorry hadn't read the thread, so no idea who got it, but they were definitely before me....
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On May 03 2010 00:13 Falcynn wrote:
Sorry guys for not claiming, was gone yesterday and the day before, I'm just glad I didn't get modkilled. I'll try to make up for it by being a more active townie than last game. Now time to read the rest of the thread.
should we assume you are just as vanilla townie since you were gone?
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Sure, hell if enough people actually think my cop plan is any good, I'll even offer myself up for sacrifice.
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I'm really failing to see the logic in a lot of people's posts.
So maybe we figure out a powerful role (like compulsive vig) is in the hands of mafia somewhere near the top of the list. We get to weed him out. But you know what else is at the top of the list? All the powerful townie roles.
And I'm not ready to take all the evidence we have at face value yet. You know who might by lying? Qatol. You know who might be lying? Korynne. You know who can verify this? Pretty much no one. I doubt anyone else tried to take copy cat and I have no idea what Korynne was going for. I'm also curious as to why, if she didn't get her role, is she not pushing hard for BM and Foolishness? She kind of mentioned them and then went after citi.zen.
I, for one, am not afraid of a mafia copycat. If we get a mafia with a day 1 lynch then they had the role anyway. And even if we lose an exceptionally powerful role we'll still know where it is. I think it might be best to push for BM or Foolish right away, the only problem is whether or not I trust Korynne. Right now I'm not sure.
Zona why are you bringing up Red Army and World at War for examples? Those games are completely different situations.
I'm also curious as to the people who have been talking about getting the info out there as soon as possible. We can't PM in this game, so you know what people have to do in order to reveal this information? That's right, they have to reveal themselves.
Also, does no one care about the Serial Killer that's hanging around who's bulletproof and can't be found by alignment checks? Sounds to me like we might have two compulsive vigs.
I think if I were SK I might just shoot myself a few times just for fun.
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On May 03 2010 01:17 Scamp wrote:
I, for one, am not afraid of a mafia copycat. If we get a mafia with a day 1 lynch then they had the role anyway. And even if we lose an exceptionally powerful role we'll still know where it is. I think it might be best to push for BM or Foolish right away, the only problem is whether or not I trust Korynne. Right now I'm not sure.
That's a pretty big if imo. This is only my second game on TL, but we were pretty bad at taking out mafia last game, especially with no information to go on. How do you propose we get a mafia on a day 1 lynch?
Also, if the mafia copycat picks up a good role, we don't know who the copycat is - how does that mean that we'll know where it is?
I think if I were SK I might just shoot myself a few times just for fun.
+1 on this though ^^
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Well I said we should check up on the 3 of us the first day.
Clearly you shouldn't just accept what I say. If I was mafia and I got the compulsive vigilante role then killing me would be a bad idea because if what Qatol says is true, the copy cat will get my role.
Lynching BM or Foolishness before figuring out who is what would be stupid because that means we have a 50% chance of losing a very important role if we lynch the wrong person. AND letting the copy cat take that role.
I think the mafia's train of thought is basically: Take copy cat, let BM/Foolishness (whoever is mafia, could be both) take compulsive vigilante. So clearly we will be able to figure out one of them early but then we need to stall for another night before being able to kill them if we think we should kill a less important role first.
I do not suggest anyone protect me tonight, since I am vanilla.
If I am mafia, it wouldn't make sense for me to tell you not to protect me, since #1 you protecting me would mean you're wasting a protect on me rather than someone else. #2 Mafia wouldn't kill me if I was one of them, because that's just killing 25% of them for no reason.
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so here's the thing
unless mafia got the top 4 spots, they have a pretty good idea of who in town holds the powerful roles and will probably choose to target them over, say, citizen. otoh, if people aren't stupid, some of the ones closer to the top hopefully got bulletproof or mm to counteract this
also note, so far in this thread, the following people have claimed they don't have a role:
korynne - important role (not inv or rb) above him
jonny - silly
caller - silly
falcynn - silly
qatol - copy above him
opz - comp vig above him
i'm wondering why y'all revealed this info, but i imagine some of you are lying as docs or something which also sets up nice mindgames. if you're all telling the truth though then /facepalm
i won't be claiming my role or whether i got one, i suggest more people don't either.
the compulsive vig votes are a great idea, if you have an ounce of sense you should agree, so if someone has a problem with this plan, speak up now (so we may lynch you hurr durr)
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Unless it's all an act o.o.
If you're mafia and comp vigi, how is killing you bad? Killing you immediately might be bad, but by day 2, presuming a power role has been either lynched or hit at night, killing you would be win/win.
Assuming Qatol isn't lying, yes, we should wait on lynching BM/Foolishness. You're in the same boat as them atm.
Since this all banks on whether you + Qatol are lying or not, I have an idea for our role cop + alignment cop:
Both check out Qatol tonight - Role cop's check will tell us his alignment (he wouldn't lie about having no role if he was a townie), and at the same time, it should narrow down the Alignment cop's sanity to either paranoid or insane.
1) He gets guilty back, role cop gets "innocent" back - either paranoid or insane.
Next day, gets a guilty back - could still be either, but as soon as he hits one innocent, he'll be able to confirm that he's insane.
If he keeps getting guiltys... well either everyone's mafia (unlikely) or he's a paranoid cop =[.
2) He gets innocent back;
role cop gets "innocent" - he's sane (sweet)
role cop gets guilty (a role) - he's insane (still sweet)
This plan might be bad... I'm just throwing my ideas out there in hopes that the town will have SOME plan today/tonight. The major problem I see with it right now is the role claim, so we can't actually use any of this information until later on, when our town roles claim.
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I claimed mine because there are only 2 people ahead of me. And they would both have power roles, so this information is very important for town.
If I did get compulsive vigilante and I am mafia this would be the dumbest move ever (since it would get me discovered/killed for no reason). If I am mafia and let someone else get the role, then again, dumbest move ever since I can just pretend I have the role for a while and then when you finally discover I don't you still have no idea who does.
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the fact you all are talking about lynching the person who picked first means:
1) you are mafia, have the copycat, and are scratching your nuts for my role
2) you are the copycat, and you expect me to have a good role
3) you are a terrible town player
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I'd also like to squash any rumor that I am not actively trying to help the town or will not answer any questions... feel free. It has been the weekend, and I have been procrastinating on doing schoolwork through drinking bourbon (among doing other things). Sorry that I've been relatively busy. I will, after today, be able to be much more active than I was last game. I am also planning on being more active in helping the town.
Medics, at this point, you should honestly protect me if you are town aligned. If the mafia got the copycat role, they will be seriously after my death
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On May 03 2010 05:32 Bill Murray wrote:
the fact you all are talking about lynching the person who picked first means:
1) you are mafia, have the copycat, and are scratching your nuts for my role
2) you are the copycat, and you expect me to have a good role
3) you are a terrible town player
I think what Korynne and I have been saying is that we need to get the copycat role out of the way before we even consider lynching you o.O.
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the fact you all are talking about lynching the person who picked first means:
1) you are mafia, have the copycat, and are scratching your nuts for my role
2) you are the copycat, and you expect me to have a good role
3) you are a terrible town player
I mentioned this repeatedly that we shouldn't lynch one of you two until we figure out which one is mafia because clearly lynching a low number townie is bad. (I proposed we lynch citi.zen)
If I was the copy cat I'd be dead pretty soon anyway if I draw so much attention on myself and both you and foolishness check out to be town and what not. Also I don't have nuts...
If I was town why would I purposely kill off you instead of mafia doing that eventually anyway?
Since I didn't say, hey guys let's lynch BM or foolishness I think the 3rd point doesn't apply.
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EPT
