EPTMicro-MAFIA (The First) - Page 10
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On March 27 2010 10:37 Ace wrote: I find it funny that you voted to lynch Vivi but are trying to lay the blame game on everyone else. Hilarious. I sure did. Before he role-claimed. I am not trying to place the blame on anyone, just to get the town to think and contribute. "Play to win" and all that. Or not, we could just sit here silent and follow the other game. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
The frigid night once again became day, as the remaining living residents of Micropolis woke and considered themselves lucky to be alive. Soon they congregated at the central square, to resume their work in building the new town, continuing despite the aura of death that hung over them. As they awkwardly greeted each other that morning, it soon became obvious who was missing: Versatile. Abandoning any respect for the dead, they all went over to the tent where she had slept. The scene was gruesome. A single bullet in the head, with freshly dried blood still warm all around her. But unable to contain their curiosity, the town looked through her belongings which still lay around her. One of them exclaimed as they found the remnants of a fingerprinting toolkit. Versatile must have been some sort of investigator before she fled for the sanctuary of this secluded new town. Versatile the detective has been killed during the night. 5 town-aligned and 2 mafia-aligned players remain! Day 2 ends in approximately 48 hours, at March 28, 10pm EST (or March 29, 11:00 KST TeamLiquid time)! Votes are now once again being counted! ##start day## | ||
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haster27
Taiwan809 Posts
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I'm sure you aren't surprised about this right? | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
@ Ace - I am not surprised at all. I argued with two people: Versatile and yourself. She died. I look suspicious. You are alive. As stated multiple times, I also disagree with your statement that lynching Vivi was the right call, even after you saw he claimed medic. It's all in the thread, town-aligned players would read those exchanges. I'll say this: take my posts out and you have nothing going on in this thread. Make up your own mids what, if anything, that means about my alignment. If we screw up the day 2 lynch it's 3 v 2 on day 3, so all 3 town players would need to agree to vote for the same red player. Maybe it's time to start contributing. ##Vote Ace## | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
RebirthOfLeGenD Ace citi.zen Fishball haster27 johnnyspazz nemY 7 players left, 2 are Mafia. I know I'm green, so that leaves me with 6 choices. If I vote randomly, there is a 33% chance I will hit a Mafia. Now lets take a look at the order of Zona's list of players. On March 21 2010 10:42 Zona wrote: Player list 1. 2. Ace 3. citi.zen (aka: citizen) 4. Fishball 5. haster27 (aka: haster) 6. johnnyspazz (aka: johnny, jonny, or jonnyspazz) 7. nemY 8. 9. As pure speculation, it would be fair to say there will be a Mafia in 1-3 and another one in 5-7. Granted, this is purely speculation, as we already have 2 blues at the bottom of the list, and Zona might not have used the exact order to generate roles. There is a good chance that either Ace or citi.zen, that one of them could be red. This thread citi.zen has posted the most, with Ace being second. Versatile haven't posted much at all, just like me, Nemy etc., yet she was hit. Why? Previous history? Ace definitely knows her more than anyone else here. Random hit? Could be anyone. How random can this be? Of course people can say, "What if you are lying? What if you are Mafia?". Well to those 4 other Townies out there, you know who you are. I don't need you to believe what I say, but I want you to be aware of the situation. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 27 2010 11:42 citi.zen wrote: Right... Vivi got medic and Versatile DT. Solid. @ Ace - I am not surprised at all. I argued with two people: Versatile and yourself. She died. I look suspicious. You are alive. As stated multiple times, I also disagree with your statement that lynching Vivi was the right call, even after you saw he claimed medic. It's all in the thread, town-aligned players would read those exchanges. I'll say this: take my posts out and you have nothing going on in this thread. Make up your own mids what, if anything, that means about my alignment. If we screw up the day 2 lynch it's 3 v 2 on day 3, so all 3 town players would need to agree to vote for the same red player. Maybe it's time to start contributing. ##Vote Ace## You already know just like everyone else that Vivi claiming Medic wasn't going to change my vote. I've already explain that. So saying "even when you saw Vivi claim medic" isn't helpful at all. On the other hand YOU could have saved him. You didn't change your vote and now want to make it look like I'm at fault. I've stood by my decision wholeheartedly while you are not even acknowledging you yourself are a cause of his death. Likewise if you take my posts out of this thread game activity drops also. How does that make you more innocent than anyone else? @Fishball: Yea I know Verse better than anyone. Doesn't mean it's my fault she's dead. The more I read citizen's posts the more scummy he comes across. He points out that he argued with Versatile, she died, and he looks suspect. As if the notion of admitting he might be scummy clears him in my eyes. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 27 2010 03:57 Versatile wrote: yes. no. 1st day roleclaims are stupid. honestly. even IF i were a fan of first day roleclaims, vivi didn't do it right. #1. if you're going to roleclaim, do it in a timely fashion. let's say he roleclaimed earlier, given us maybe 24hrs to validate his claim. first off, that gives us a chance to see if anyone else counterclaims. if there isn't a counterclaim, that works in the claimer's favor and maybe some votes would get moved around. if there IS a counterclaim, well, good job, now we've got 1 confirmed mafia. but this is really risky and i doubt mafia would go for this strategy. #2. why the HELL would a medic claim? the medic cannot protect them self....so. give yourself away to mafia, why don't you? so, back to square one, first day claiming sucks. I agree completely with Versatile here. Ace I don't agree with killing the roleclaimer and I think vivi did a horrendous job with it. The problem is that you logically are correct. You CANNOT confirm a medic claim without sacrificing the other medic. However the mafia are risking that there is not another medic in the game. If there is a medic in the game then what will happen is the medic just has to claim as well and we kill the first claimer, and then kill the counterclaim if necessary. The only problem here is that there is no way of knowing whether or not there is a medic so its a real risky play on mafias part. So I think killing a claimer either way is worth it. In this setup losing your medic or DT for a mafia is completely worth it. Either one cannot be validated since an actual DT would check someone and know if they were town aligned or mafia aligned and a fake DT would know who the mafia are. No role claims can be substantiated, ever. But I do overall agree, first day claiming is dumb, and as a mafia move it is even more stupid. However a kill-able offense is questionable considering how much more risky it is as mafia, considering counter claim = rape and you pointed out how much it can suck losing a mafia member real quick. Since even you Ace disagree with the depth of a WIFOM argument I am going to have to say you are mafia. We can say that Citizen argued with Vers because he read her role perfectly then killed her so that he would be "suspicious" because of his arguing with her, which would be what Ace would do because he knows how the town would read it. It is much easier (and goes with what you believe) to say that you killed Versatile because you had a read on her and either purposely or coincidentally Citizen had been fighting with her the entire time. Which would be Citizen mind fucking us. From day 1. ##Vote Ace## Sorry buddy, no scum in my city. Anyway guys, that is my thought for the day. I am going to head to sleep and I have 12 hours of work tomorrow so I won't be on again until late at night (another 10:30 EST approx) GL Anyone disagree with my analysys? My secondary suspect is Fishball, but I am not too convinced on anyone else <3 | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 25 2010 07:20 Ace wrote: WIFOM is very simple but it's usually explained in retarded ways. Simplest way to look at it: 1.) I can do X to you. 2.) You know I can do X, so you will do Y. 3.) I know that you can do Y, so I'll do Z. 4.) You know that I know you can do Y, and that I can do Z, so you'll do A. 5.) I know .....so I'll go back to doing X. It's just a way to say "hey if I were you, I'd do this!" and from then on people discuss from there at which point it's no longer rational to do X,Y,Z or A (because in a game of Mafia none of the 4 choices usually exist, it's usually like 2 and MAYBE 3 at best). Just a for fun to bring it back up. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
Also I had a humorous thought. I would laugh my ass off if in your WaW mafia game there is no mafia, and you just want to see how long it takes for everyone to kill each other. The win condition being 10 days without death from radiation levels. I would laugh at everyone playing the game. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Someone already brought that point up about the other game ^_^ | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
You already know just like everyone else that Vivi claiming Medic wasn't going to change my vote. I've already explain that. Yup. You did explain, and I told you why I think your reasoning was questionable. The debate ended with you saying that you would explain further, but only after "this" is over: On March 27 2010 00:58 Ace wrote: at the end of the day, you voted for Vivi to die and you weren't here to "save" him. I stick by my decision that he should have been dead no matter what he claims because he's terrible regardless. We can talk about and I can show you multiple examples of why you don't trust Day 1 medic claims after this is over. Ok... suit yourself. Next sentence please. On the other hand YOU could have saved him. You didn't change your vote and now want to make it look like I'm at fault. I've stood by my decision wholeheartedly while you are not even acknowledging you yourself are a cause of his death. More sketchy logic/selective reading. Of course, I already answered this in detail, twice in fact, and directly to Ace. Yet he continues to "forget".For the sake of playing along, here is what I said: On March 26 2010 11:50 citi.zen wrote: As far as I go, he claimed medic at the wrong time: I left work, came home and spent time with the family, until the kid went to sleep.When I did see his post and had time to digest it I decided it made sense to switch. Unfortunately it was too late. I don't get how other people who were active in this and/or the other mafia game during this time did not reach the same conclusion. It's pretty rare to lynch someone who claims blue, in any mafia game, no? Ace, haster27, Fishball, Abenson, johnnyspazz (other thread) were all active after Vivi's claim but missed that. And no, even if my vote switch were on time, I still could not have saved Vivi by myself, since in the event of a tie the first person with 3 votes still gets lynched. Likewise if you take my posts out of this thread game activity drops also. Of course, "game activity drops" if you take any posts out of the thread. This is a moot point, different from my stronger claim: On March 27 2010 11:42 citi.zen wrote: I'll say this: take my posts out and you have nothing going on in this thread. Make up your own mids what, if anything, that means about my alignment. This is of course my own assessment - you all need to make up your own minds here. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:47 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Ironically, I am quoting the dead here. I agree completely with Versatile here. Ace I don't agree with killing the roleclaimer and I think vivi did a horrendous job with it. The problem is that you logically are correct. You CANNOT confirm a medic claim without sacrificing the other medic. However the mafia are risking that there is not another medic in the game. If there is a medic in the game then what will happen is the medic just has to claim as well and we kill the first claimer, and then kill the counterclaim if necessary. The only problem here is that there is no way of knowing whether or not there is a medic so its a real risky play on mafias part. So I think killing a claimer either way is worth it. In this setup losing your medic or DT for a mafia is completely worth it. Either one cannot be validated since an actual DT would check someone and know if they were town aligned or mafia aligned and a fake DT would know who the mafia are. No role claims can be substantiated, ever. But I do overall agree, first day claiming is dumb, and as a mafia move it is even more stupid. However a kill-able offense is questionable considering how much more risky it is as mafia, considering counter claim = rape and you pointed out how much it can suck losing a mafia member real quick. Since even you Ace disagree with the depth of a WIFOM argument I am going to have to say you are mafia. We can say that Citizen argued with Vers because he read her role perfectly then killed her so that he would be "suspicious" because of his arguing with her, which would be what Ace would do because he knows how the town would read it. It is much easier (and goes with what you believe) to say that you killed Versatile because you had a read on her and either purposely or coincidentally Citizen had been fighting with her the entire time. Which would be Citizen mind fucking us. From day 1. ##Vote Ace## Sorry buddy, no scum in my city. Anyway guys, that is my thought for the day. I am going to head to sleep and I have 12 hours of work tomorrow so I won't be on again until late at night (another 10:30 EST approx) GL Anyone disagree with my analysys? My secondary suspect is Fishball, but I am not too convinced on anyone else <3 While I endorse your conclusion, I have to agree with Ace and say there is very little logic here. As far as I can tell anyway. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
I was a little tired ^_^ Since even you Ace disagree with the depth of a WIFOM argument I am going to have to say you are mafia. I write this because Ace disagreed with the depth of a WIFOM argument where someone does something because they predict an action so they do something else. The posts above. Plus this scenario is unlikely.We can say that Citizen argued with Versatile because he read her role perfectly then killed her so that he would be "suspicious" because of his arguing with her, which would be what Ace would do because he knows how the town would read it. I meant from what the view would be from an outsider, in order for citizen to be mafia and being try to get us to lynch Ace instead he would have had to planned to fight with her from the beginning of Day 1 and then kill her during the night. Since they were fighting and she ended up dead you could say he didn't like her so he killed her, but that would draw attention onto himself. But if Citizen KNEW we were going to think that way, then we wouldn't suspect him and would go for someone else. I hope that is more clear T_T sorry. It is much easier (and goes with what you believe) to say that Ace killed Versatile because he had a read on her as a DT. In this scenario fighting Citizen fighting with Versatile could of been coincidence (when Ace read her as DT) or he could of just been trying to frame Citizen. Which would be Citizen mind fucking us. From day 1. If my former scenario was the true when and Citizen IS mafia, then that is how it would appear to me. | ||
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haster27
Taiwan809 Posts
I don't have much to write about Ace for now, but this is because Ace is not giving me enough big posts (after night 1) to work with -_-;;; One thing I have to point out is that you have ignored one good statement out of RebirthOfLegend's post, being "I think killing a claimer either way is worth it. In this setup losing your medic or DT for a mafia is completely worth it" though I think RoL's reasoning is bit different from mine. Okay, at this setup there are two Mafia and seven Townies. I this setup it is highly disadvantageous for Mafia to counter role-claim blue occupation because it becomes trade-off of one blue role for one Mafia- more I think about it, Mafia will not want to push themselves into situation which is likely to create situation of 1 Mafia vs 1 Blue - 5 Townie. I've been Mafia in E11 game where my partner was lynched day 1, so I know how hellish it is to win: 1) by yourself (no support), 2) when one correct lynch is the end of Mafia. I just don't think Mafia would have thrown their two-person advantage that early, which is why I thought vivi's claim were valid. Also, I admit guilty to not switching votes because I wanted to hear about what other people thought about it. No other reason. On March 27 2010 13:28 citi.zen wrote: And no, even if my vote switch were on time, I still could not have saved Vivi by myself, since in the event of a tie the first person with 3 votes still gets lynched. Yes, but it would have been one step closer to saving vivi. Since there are no PM communications I would think people wanting to save vivi would act individually hoping others would follow. On March 27 2010 11:42 citi.zen wrote: I'll say this: take my posts out and you have nothing going on in this thread. Make up your own mids what, if anything, that means about my alignment. Um, because it is evidence Ace is using to incriminate you? Posts are always used to find scums, which is why Mafia lurking technique is so effective. I don't see your point here. On March 27 2010 22:18 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Oh sorry guys, I am going to assume the confusion comes from the wifom part and why I think Ace is mafia and not my reasoning on Day 1 RC's. I was a little tired ^_^ I write this because Ace disagreed with the depth of a WIFOM argument where someone does something because they predict an action so they do something else. The posts above. Plus this scenario is unlikely. I meant from what the view would be from an outsider, in order for citizen to be mafia and being try to get us to lynch Ace instead he would have had to planned to fight with her from the beginning of Day 1 and then kill her during the night. Since they were fighting and she ended up dead you could say he didn't like her so he killed her, but that would draw attention onto himself. But if Citizen KNEW we were going to think that way, then we wouldn't suspect him and would go for someone else. I hope that is more clear T_T sorry. If my former scenario was the true when and Citizen IS mafia, then that is how it would appear to me. My overall impression is that this proves how this vivi-versatile death situation can be interpreted in both ways; whether either of them are convincing enough to warrant a vote, I am not sure about. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I got 2 quick votes and one from RoL who's barely posted and everyone else is pretty much inactive. | ||
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haster27
Taiwan809 Posts
On March 28 2010 03:44 Ace wrote: so like, is anyone going to help save me or do I have to write out a long counter post? You guys do realize its LYNCH OR LOSE right? When I flip town due to TWO votes on me the game is over. I got 2 quick votes and one from RoL who's barely posted and everyone else is pretty much inactive. ? Currently 2 Mafia - 5 Townie If fail: 2 Mafia - 3 Townie Correct lynch (since either citizen or Ace is likely Mafia) 1 Mafia - 2 Townie, with one last lynch to go. | ||
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