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Micro-MAFIA (The First) - Page 9

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
March 26 2010 15:58 GMT
#161
at the end of the day, you voted for Vivi to die and you weren't here to "save" him. I stick by my decision that he should have been dead no matter what he claims because he's terrible regardless. We can talk about and I can show you multiple examples of why you don't trust Day 1 medic claims after this is over.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
March 26 2010 16:07 GMT
#162
RebirthOfLeGenD is replacing in for Abenson.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 26 2010 16:08 GMT
#163
O hai all~ I have work tonight but I will be posting after around 10:30 EST.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
March 26 2010 16:13 GMT
#164
lmao whats up guy?
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
March 26 2010 16:15 GMT
#165
On March 27 2010 00:13 citi.zen wrote:
By the way, mafia KP is 1 in this game, right?

On March 21 2010 10:41 Zona wrote:
Mafia:
Each night, your team MUST choose one person to kill.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
March 26 2010 16:19 GMT
#166
Oh man...

Anyway, to this:

On March 27 2010 00:58 Ace wrote:
at the end of the day, you voted for Vivi to die and you weren't here to "save" him. I stick by my decision that he should have been dead no matter what he claims because he's terrible regardless. We can talk about and I can show you multiple examples of why you don't trust Day 1 medic claims after this is over.

Whether you trust the claim is not the point. Especially with this set-up: killing a suspected red on day one keeps KP unchanged; killing a medic, bad. The downside >> upside as far as I can tell.

Anyway. Nobody else seems to care, so... it is what it is.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
March 26 2010 16:55 GMT
#167
Fishball, johnnyspazz, nemY, Versatile - your thoughts on the blue claim and subsequent lynching would be greatly appreciated. Haster - a clearer answer from you would be nice as well.

Silence is good for mafia at this point.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Versatile
Profile Joined November 2008
United States396 Posts
March 26 2010 18:43 GMT
#168
thoughts? i wasn't around when the roleclaim occurred, and he was already lynched when i got back.

what more is there to say?
"Over night The Conspiracy moves to eliminate a major threat to their plans. Many important officials are kidnapped and tortured, civilians are bombed and they use the spare ice to make delicious snow capped ice cream cones. Alas, someone has to die!"
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
March 26 2010 18:46 GMT
#169
On March 27 2010 03:43 Versatile wrote:
thoughts? i wasn't around when the roleclaim occurred, and he was already lynched when i got back.

what more is there to say?

Do you think it was the right decision? Would you have changed your vote had you been online? Why/why not?
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Versatile
Profile Joined November 2008
United States396 Posts
March 26 2010 18:57 GMT
#170
yes. no. 1st day roleclaims are stupid.

honestly. even IF i were a fan of first day roleclaims, vivi didn't do it right.

#1. if you're going to roleclaim, do it in a timely fashion. let's say he roleclaimed earlier, given us maybe 24hrs to validate his claim. first off, that gives us a chance to see if anyone else counterclaims. if there isn't a counterclaim, that works in the claimer's favor and maybe some votes would get moved around. if there IS a counterclaim, well, good job, now we've got 1 confirmed mafia.

but this is really risky and i doubt mafia would go for this strategy.

#2. why the HELL would a medic claim? the medic cannot protect them self....so. give yourself away to mafia, why don't you?

so, back to square one, first day claiming sucks.
"Over night The Conspiracy moves to eliminate a major threat to their plans. Many important officials are kidnapped and tortured, civilians are bombed and they use the spare ice to make delicious snow capped ice cream cones. Alas, someone has to die!"
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
March 26 2010 19:17 GMT
#171
Look, I fully agree Vivi played horribly. I am not asking whether you think he is a good player or not.

Rather, given vivi did claim (instead of defending himself) - what should a good pro-town player have done? Vote them off or not? Is getting rid of a weak player worth wasting a lynching and losing a medic?

+ Show Spoiler +
As a side note, Vivi didn't intend to claim as a deliberate strategy, he only did it when it became pretty clear he was getting lynched anyway. This addresses both #1 and #2 in your post. Of course, I still think he should have argued his way out of it rather than flap his hands and say byebye - I told you so at the last moment.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Versatile
Profile Joined November 2008
United States396 Posts
March 26 2010 19:22 GMT
#172
....

did you not read my post? i wasn't commenting on whether or not he's a good player. those were my thoughts on the strategy. the way it was done, in this game, he should have still been lynched. period.
"Over night The Conspiracy moves to eliminate a major threat to their plans. Many important officials are kidnapped and tortured, civilians are bombed and they use the spare ice to make delicious snow capped ice cream cones. Alas, someone has to die!"
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
March 26 2010 19:34 GMT
#173
... because it puts the town in a better position?
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Versatile
Profile Joined November 2008
United States396 Posts
March 26 2010 19:42 GMT
#174
says who?
"Over night The Conspiracy moves to eliminate a major threat to their plans. Many important officials are kidnapped and tortured, civilians are bombed and they use the spare ice to make delicious snow capped ice cream cones. Alas, someone has to die!"
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
March 26 2010 19:51 GMT
#175
You said vivi should have been lynched. period. I am just making sure you think this is for the benefit of the town, not just to get rid of a bad player. They are not always the same thing, especially with randomly distributed roles. Background under the spoiler.

+ Show Spoiler +
On March 26 2010 13:46 citi.zen wrote:
Show nested quote +
The Mafia knowing this, has a really good option not to kill the medic because the town will lynch him the next day.

If the medic lives that night, the town can't go back and say "well maybe the Mafia decided not to hit him". Why would we? We'd be back in Day 1 a player short and in the same position.

Next day there still isn't any good reason for the town to lynch him, unless the mafia happened to kill a medic during the night making it plainly obvious he was lying. Otherwise the same logic applies: let the mafia waste the KP and/or wait for a DT check or a competing medic claim/death to clarify things/provide more information.

Show nested quote +
Then there's the classic argument of why would Mafia claim Medic when they are about to die - why not? The optimal play is staying alive.If scum feels a medic claim will confound the town, let him live another day and be able to weasel away with it then he's winning.

If a red role-claims they are taking a major risk: the "real" blue is out there looking to nail them. This is a better position for town than what we have now. If the "real" medic somehow dies the town automatically knows the initial role-claim was false and bam, we have a red.

The bottom line is that there is no reason for the town to risk killing a blue. Even if the mafia lets them live to spread confusion, or even if the claim was false and he was red, the town has more information.

Again, I feel like you know all this and we're just going through the motions here.


On March 26 2010 22:56 citi.zen wrote:
Show nested quote +
There IS a good reason for the town to lynch him. Look, if the Mafia never hit a medic but always get their kills through the real medic is essentially useless.

It seems wrong to assume an untrustworthy medic is useless. As long as they are alive, the medic can still protect people each night. Worst case scenario: they protect scum, and people still get killed, no worse than having no medic. However, there is a chance they will protect someone the mafia would hit, particularly in such a small game where it’s not THAT hard to keep track of who is doing what.

Show nested quote +
What is the town going to do? Blame the medic? They can't because they aren't even sure the medic is legit

There are no PMs in this game, everyone plays in the open & the medic decides what to do/who to protect. It thus makes very little difference if the town thinks the medic is "legit".

Show nested quote +
Do you think the REAL medic is going to roleclaim?! Seriously? Which is going to definitely result in a dead medic that night - the same thing you want to avoid.

If a red lied and the “real” medic is still alive there are plenty of scenarios where it makes sense for them to RC. For example… if there is only one red left in the game - the fake claimer.

Show nested quote +
Mafia don't waste KP killing medics - thats exactly what they want. Medics aren't there to take bullets that is just absurd thinking.

Once the medic is about to be lynched anyway they might as well try to take a bullet - it's better than dying for no reason what-so-ever. Play to win, not to get even, right?

Show nested quote +
Then in a small game as this, you want the DT to RC the medic which just helps what I'm trying to tell you - the DT must not believe the medic claim. Else why would he "waste a rolecheck" right? :D

I never said the DT should RC immediately. There are scenarios down the road when, if the DT is still alive and the guy who claims medic is acting really shifty or there is a limited set of suspects it might make sense to RC them.

Show nested quote +
You don't ever let unconfirmed power roles run around. You don't let players live "because they might be blue". Unless they have very convincing arguments then they shouldn't be left alive. There IS no better position for the town. If you have an outted medic and the Mafia know they can get kills off with the medic still living THE TOWN LOSES. Point blank. Because the longer the medic lives in the open with the claim the more sketchy the medic looks.

If a shifty medic lives a few more nights he gets to protect people + we don't waste a lynching.

Show nested quote +
I guess if I live tonight, role claim DT tomorrow and say I got an innocent result on Fishball I deserve to live right? Because I might be a blue and no one counter-claimed me.

As I explained before, if anyone role-claims blue I would assume they are indeed blue, or red, but at any rate not green.

At this point you've sort of made too many confusing arguments for my taste, so I would be leaning towards red. The one thing making me hesitant is this:

Show nested quote +
On March 22 2010 02:34 L wrote:
I think this game is going to be worth watching from the outside to see Ace and Vivi go at it.

Of course, if what's going on here is a pre-existing grudge it would mean you aren't doing the town (or yourself) any favors.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
nemY
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States3119 Posts
March 27 2010 00:21 GMT
#176
On March 27 2010 01:55 citi.zen wrote:
Fishball, johnnyspazz, nemY, Versatile - your thoughts on the blue claim and subsequent lynching would be greatly appreciated. Haster - a clearer answer from you would be nice as well.

Silence is good for mafia at this point.


I didn't vote for Vivi so I don't have much to say on it. It came too late to change the outcome of anything and assuming he had claimed earlier, who would we have lynched instead? I hate RCers anyways (although we have played in games where it's worked). That being said being a medic down suuuuuuuucccccks for the DT. Told ya we should have lynched Abension (now RoL).
Versatile
Profile Joined November 2008
United States396 Posts
March 27 2010 01:07 GMT
#177
yeah, yo. i voted for you citizen. what the are you questioning us for again?

aren't you the person who was online and could have saved him?
"Over night The Conspiracy moves to eliminate a major threat to their plans. Many important officials are kidnapped and tortured, civilians are bombed and they use the spare ice to make delicious snow capped ice cream cones. Alas, someone has to die!"
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
March 27 2010 01:14 GMT
#178
On March 27 2010 10:07 Versatile wrote:
yeah, yo. i voted for you citizen. what the are you questioning us for again?

aren't you the person who was online and could have saved him?

I won't make another comment on your reading skills so others don't say I am being unnecessarily harsh, but here:

On March 26 2010 11:50 citi.zen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2010 11:43 Ace wrote:
My reasoning is simple. I think Vivi is terrible. If you look at games Vivi plays he never helps the town. He just criticizes everyone and bitches and moans.

This thread has only 7 pages and he's managed to accuse at least 3 people?! How is that good town play? Even with the last minute roleclaim he looked shoddy. When you are being band wagoned the last thing you'd want to do is accuse multiple people - they'll tend NOT to take their votes off of you in that case.

Then again, your vote is on him too. Why didn't you switch?

You could have voted for Johnnyspazz and tied it up, hoping someone else switched their vote too. What was your reason for not switching, because we all know I wasn't going to move my vote anyway.

As far as I go, he claimed medic at the wrong time: I left work, came home and spent time with the family, until the kid went to sleep.When I did see his post and had time to digest it I decided it made sense to switch. Unfortunately it was too late.

I don't get how other people who were active in this and/or the other mafia game during this time did not reach the same conclusion. It's pretty rare to lynch someone who claims blue, in any mafia game, no? Ace, haster27, Fishball, Abenson, johnnyspazz (other thread) were all active after Vivi's claim but missed that.

Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Versatile
Profile Joined November 2008
United States396 Posts
March 27 2010 01:17 GMT
#179
didn't see that. i skip over most of your posts. i've decided they're useless.

: )
"Over night The Conspiracy moves to eliminate a major threat to their plans. Many important officials are kidnapped and tortured, civilians are bombed and they use the spare ice to make delicious snow capped ice cream cones. Alas, someone has to die!"
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
March 27 2010 01:19 GMT
#180
On March 27 2010 10:17 Versatile wrote:
didn't see that. i skip over most of your posts. i've decided they're useless.

: )

Might as well stop pretending to reply to them then, no? Much appreciated.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
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