EPT[S3 Worlds] Semifinals - Page 87
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Fionn
United States23455 Posts
the worst decision by nagne and sword was that awful four-on-one gank on Jax that left SKT to take an easy dragon and pressure the bottom lane. if they had done what kobe said, had nocturne gank bottom and have shen ult in for a team fight win + dragon, sword would have been up 2k gold and snowballing, even with faker's insane farm. | ||
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scrubtastic
1166 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:15 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Nagne's play isn't what lost them that game. It was their team's usage of Nagne and their decisions as a whole. He went top twice (once w/ Lee sin). Neither were worth any of his time. Couple that with absolutely no jungle help mid and Faker got to 100% free farm the mid lane and repeatedly got to take wraiths as well. Nagne never stood a chance after that; no mid laner would. Maybe they really didn't want Jax to get farmed like how Sword's G1 Jax was hilariously strong? I guess that's why they tried for those lower-percentage ganks. SKT took full advantage of it though and did so hard. Totally uncontested dragons/turrets are nice too | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:17 Lysanias wrote: Also coaches doing alot of the work for them, it's great when you have alot of time to prepare and know what to play but it leaves players rather helpless with new patches or quick changes to the game. Unless your Faker. Then you play riven mid. And cause an entire server to suffer elo hell trying to replicate it. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:18 Fionn wrote: to be fair, nagne's cs wasn't that bad. he roamed up top once or twice, but still had a decent cs score on average for mids. it was just that skt's whole strategy was feeding faker the wolves, wraiths and then mid lane farm. watch's nocturne was up 35+ CS on the utility Lee Sin, but didn't really make much happen. the worst decision by nagne and sword was that awful four-on-one gank on Jax that left SKT to take an easy dragon and pressure the bottom lane. if they had done what kobe said, had nocturne gank bottom and have shen ult in for a team fight win + dragon, sword would have been up 2k gold and snowballing, even with faker's insane farm. I feel like they didn't make enough use of shen ult, they'd relieve so much pressure off top and then there was zero attempt to make any plays knowing that impact was gone and couldn't do anything about expession if he wanted to ult. Like the 3 man dive if nagne had stayed at mid so they could contest dragon they'd have a 4v4 with shen and dragon on their side. | ||
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qanik
Denmark1899 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:16 Roffles wrote: Look at what's been posted in the last few pages of this thread. It's all a bunch of morons whining about how Sword gave us a great 5 set series and that SKT going to the finals is anti-hype or whatever shit. Then on the other hand we have a bunch of people who are spewing ridiculous bullshit left and right about Fnatic and all the regional play when all we know is these teams are all on a comparable level and who knows what may happen any given day. C9 took a game off Fnatic. Gambit took a game off Sword. OMG took a game off SKT. What you guys need to realize is that these players are all world class caliber players, and that anything can happen. Stop jumping to ridiculous conclusions that Xpeke is 10x better than Nagne and that Fnatic would shit all over SKT. Fnatic's played well, but they still haven't played against a legit Chinese/Korean team. You can hype them and give them chances, but to spew bullshit like Shikyo's doing right now is just ridiculous. lol | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
Doublelift was also right. Cain and Pray should have had so much more lane presence and pressure but they didn't. Most of all I think sword got pushed into a corner during pick/ban phase. Expession picking shen is like Flame picking shen. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:16 Roffles wrote: Look at what's been posted in the last few pages of this thread. It's all a bunch of morons whining about how Sword gave us a great 5 set series and that SKT going to the finals is anti-hype or whatever shit. Then on the other hand we have a bunch of people who are spewing ridiculous bullshit left and right about Fnatic and all the regional play when all we know is these teams are all on a comparable level and who knows what may happen any given day. C9 took a game off Fnatic. Gambit took a game off Sword. OMG took a game off SKT. What you guys need to realize is that these players are all world class caliber players, and that anything can happen. Stop jumping to ridiculous conclusions that Xpeke is 10x better than Nagne and that Fnatic would shit all over SKT. Fnatic's played well, but they still haven't played against a legit Chinese/Korean team. You can hype them and give them chances, but to spew bullshit like Shikyo's doing right now is just ridiculous. Alaric just hella mad 3/6 of his fantasy team already out in quarters and pray sucked dick today. | ||
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NovaTheFeared
United States7229 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
rofl @ u lol'in @ me. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:21 Itsmedudeman wrote: I think sword were really afraid of jax snowballing on the shen. On one hand shen can't snowball even after a kill, but on the other hand if you leave jax alone he will destroy the shen and become unstoppable. I don't think their gameplan was that bad given the situation of ahri being really far behind faker at that point and faker's positioning in lane being super good. It would be impossible to gank that lane without giving up 1 or 2 for it. Doublelift was also right. Cain and Pray should have had so much more lane presence and pressure but they didn't. Most of all I think sword got pushed into a corner during pick/ban phase. Expession picking shen is like Flame picking shen. It feels like a bizarre oversight that one of the biggest teams for using jax vs shen would overlook that match up so hard and first pick shen without having a real plan for jax except 50 nocturne ults. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
The Shen+Ahri combo literally lost every game. Yet somehow SKT was able to corner Sword into drafting that. Pick/bans alone were super interesting for me. On top of that, we get to see Jax be played almost every game, which is insane considering how he's literally been unpicked up to this point and was considered unplayable. We also got to see exactly why Jax is unpicked and see how fuckign strong he is at the same time. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:13 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Man this was a great series, what's wrong with you guys? Part of the thrill of big-spectacle competition is seeing how the players cope with the pressure. To be fair, I wouldn't have complained so much if Najin had just gotten rolled (which I expected), compared to this series where you first get hope of something actually close, or even an upset (which raises the hype no matter who you root for), happening, only for it to be crushed later. "Don't get your hopes up" and all that. If I was to summarise the series from how I perceived/felt it, it went: - close game, gives hope for a good series (esp. after considering Sword's performance vs Gambit which made a bunch of people think they wouldn't hold a candle to SKT) - uninteresting one-sided stomp, game over by 7 minutes barring major throws, flukes happen. - another close game, reinforces the idea that the previous one was probably just a fluke and the next one or two should be really exciting. - uninteresting one-sided stomp², game over by 5 minutes only this time. Two flukes is harder to believe. Annoys with the fact that 2 games out of 5 have already been abysmal, sows more doubt towards Sword's consistency (and thus the ability to expect good, exciting games from them), starts making dread that Sword's performances are random and the next game may be an even worse stomp. - game lost at champ select, kills the hype and expectations unless you believe/wish to see Sword majorly outplay SKT, which is unlikely to happen considering the past 4 games. The first few minutes pretty much confirm the impression. When more than half the games have the viewers think "yeah it's over barring huge, willing suspension-shattering throws" before the 10 minutes mark, it's hard to stay hyped and excited through-out the whole thing. Edit: obviously I can get the opposite idea, that going in with lower expectation means every game where Sword played well pleasantly surprised you and you look forward to the next one being of that level too. I guess what I'm saying is that, the way I approached the series, it was a big ramping-up followed by a bigger let-down for me. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:22 Fusilero wrote: It feels like a bizarre oversight that one of the biggest teams for using jax vs shen would overlook that match up so hard and first pick shen without having a real plan for jax except 50 nocturne ults. Shen first pick was mindboggling. Renekton and jax were both on the field and expession is capable of playing both. He could have just first picked renekton if he wanted to and there's really no great answer for that. SKT were not going to pick shen in game 5 i'd bet anything on that. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:24 Alaric wrote: To be fair, I wouldn't have complained so much if Najin had just gotten rolled (which I expected), compared to this series where you first get hope of something actually close, or even an upset (which raises the hype no matter who you root for), happening, only for it to be crushed later. "Don't get your hopes up" and all that. If I was to summarise the series from how I perceived/felt it, it went: - close game, gives hope for a good series (esp. after considering Sword's performance vs Gambit which made a bunch of people think they wouldn't hold a candle to SKT) - uninteresting one-sided stomp, game over by 7 minutes barring major throws, flukes happen. - another close game, reinforces the idea that the previous one was probably just a fluke and the next one or two should be really exciting. - uninteresting one-sided stomp², game over by 5 minutes only this time. Two flukes is harder to believe. Annoys with the fact that 2 games out of 5 have already been abysmal, sows more doubt towards Sword's consistency (and thus the ability to expect good, exciting games from them), starts making dread that Sword's performances are random and the next game may be an even worse stomp. - game lost at champ select, kills the hype and expectations unless you believe/wish to see Sword majorly outplay SKT, which is unlikely to happen considering the past 4 games. The first few minutes pretty much confirm the impression. When more than half the games have the viewers think "yeah it's over barring huge, willing suspension-shattering throws" before the 10 minutes mark, it's hard to stay hyped and excited through-out the whole thing. The games were great. Stop trying to upset PX for shit poster award. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:24 Itsmedudeman wrote: Shen first pick was mindboggling. Renekton and jax were both on the field and expession is capable of playing both. He could have just first picked renekton if he wanted to and there's really no great answer for that. SKT were not going to pick shen in game 5 i'd bet anything on that. Except Shen first pick was standard for much of season 3 and this tourney. First picking Shen was not "mindboggling" until you put into perspective how the metagame developed through the tourney and this set. | ||
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:20 wei2coolman wrote: Unless your Faker. Then you play riven mid. And cause an entire server to suffer elo hell trying to replicate it. Well yeah Faker is just really good and with that comes confidence. I don't think a coach will tell him what not to do if Faker himself know's he can carry his team with it. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:24 Itsmedudeman wrote: Shen first pick was mindboggling. Renekton and jax were both on the field and expession is capable of playing both. He could have just first picked renekton if he wanted to and there's really no great answer for that. SKT were not going to pick shen in game 5 i'd bet anything on that. It kinda reminded me of frost vs KTB in ogn where frost tunneled onto shen too hard and overlooked zac, it's like sword did the same thing with jax and renekton. On September 28 2013 17:26 Lysanias wrote: Well yeah Fakes is just really good and with that comes confidence. I don't think a coach will tell him what not to do if Faker himself know's he can carry his team with it. From how good SKT are at adapting and doing new things I think kkoma does do lots of work for SKT as well | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:26 Ryuu314 wrote: Except Shen first pick was standard for much of season 3 and this tourney. First picking Shen was not "mindboggling" until you put into perspective how the metagame developed through the tourney and this set. This series showed that you have to adapt to the given situation and the team you're facing. I'd also like to note that Sword weren't that keen on shen, even when he was available to them. It's like they changed their philosophy for whatever reason. | ||
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