|
Certain topics are blacklisted from Patch Discussion and they include: |
On August 22 2015 05:31 Numy wrote:
Ye I noticed in my games I could bully super hard in the early levels if you just use your immunity right. Sounds like I need to buy some CDR runes. I still have the rune setup from season 2 I think with AD Reds/quits,MR Blues,AR yellows. Unfortunately my team shit the bed every game but still managed to get some sweet early kills off in those games. The Q seems super strong. Are you guys maxing W second or E?
E second. Points in E reduces the CD by 2 seconds per level, gives a better slow, and more crit damage. In contrast, the W only reduces the CD by 1 second and gives 40 more damage per level.
|
On August 22 2015 10:07 Slayer91 wrote:
i dont believe them
they are probably assuming that you dont just fire all spells in 1 rotation
ok boys you can keep liandries debuff up at all times and focus the team member with the highest hp
just like in diablo3 boys so easy
Okay, so here's some analysis from my fancy new Lux spreadsheet:
If we take a typical level 18 Lux with Morello+Deathcap+Void+Ludens+Liandry (all the big damage items), and look at her attacking a typical ADC.
Her burst combo does 2741 damage.
Her sustained DPS is 384.
What I'm gonna do is do these same calculations five times, but each time remove one of those five items so we can see in what order each of the five items is increasing her damage:
+ Show Spoiler +
Without Deathcap
Burst: 2028
Sustained: 276
Without Void
Burst: 1994
Sustained: 275
Without Liandry
Burst: 2198
Sustained: 305
Without Morello
Burst: 2480
Sustained: 269
Without Ludens
Burst: 2219
Sustained: 304
So, here's the conclusions of which item is having the biggest effect on her damage.
For Burst:
#1 - Void
#2 - Deathcap
#3 - Liandry
#4 - Ludens
#5 - Morello
For Sustained:
#1 - Morello
#2 - Void
#3 - Deathcap
#4 - Ludens
#5 - Liandry
Note that these figures are vs. squishy target stats. If you change it to being vs. a tank, the amount that Void > Deathcap increases, while the amount that Liandry > Ludens decreases. But even vs. typical tank stats the placements are the same.
There's four important things to note here.
First, Lux's kit heavily favors Ludens over Liandry, and yet Liandry is still doing more damage.
Second, I didn't include the Liandry burn damage at all, and Liandry is still doing quite well. Including the burn Liandry would place higher than Ludens in DPS since the difference was only 1 DPS.
Third, Liandry is doing this while also having arguably the best defensive stats of any of these items (300 HP)
Fourth, it took me less than 10 minutes to make this post I LOVE THIS SPREADSHEET.
|
So the new Darius is quite a bit of fun. I really like him. Not quite used to the reduction in laning power, but I'll get used to it.
As far as items go, it seems like you guys were thinking Black Cleaver and Titanic Hydra, which makes sense to me. But what about defensive items? Obviously it's going to be different from game to game, but I was thinking as sort of a "bread and butter", Warmogs, Spirit Visage (Except I know that ALL of you are going to say Banshee's Veil on this one!) and Dead Man's Plate.
Thoughts?
|
Dunno about Warmog's, it's not like you can easily leave a fight to replenish your health then go back in with Darius.
|
On August 22 2015 12:38 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 10:07 Slayer91 wrote:
i dont believe them
they are probably assuming that you dont just fire all spells in 1 rotation
ok boys you can keep liandries debuff up at all times and focus the team member with the highest hp
just like in diablo3 boys so easy Okay, so here's some analysis from my fancy new Lux spreadsheet: If we take a typical level 18 Lux with Morello+Deathcap+Void+Ludens+Liandry (all the big damage items), and look at her attacking a typical ADC. Her burst combo does 2741 damage. Her sustained DPS is 384. What I'm gonna do is do these same calculations five times, but each time remove one of those five items so we can see in what order each of the five items is increasing her damage: + Show Spoiler +
Without Deathcap
Burst: 2028
Sustained: 276
Without Void
Burst: 1994
Sustained: 275
Without Liandry
Burst: 2198
Sustained: 305
Without Morello
Burst: 2480
Sustained: 269
Without Ludens
Burst: 2219
Sustained: 304
So, here's the conclusions of which item is having the biggest effect on her damage. For Burst:#1 - Void #2 - Deathcap #3 - Liandry #4 - Ludens #5 - Morello For Sustained:#1 - Morello #2 - Void #3 - Deathcap #4 - Ludens #5 - Liandry Note that these figures are vs. squishy target stats. If you change it to being vs. a tank, the amount that Void > Deathcap increases, while the amount that Liandry > Ludens decreases. But even vs. typical tank stats the placements are the same. There's four important things to note here. First, Lux's kit heavily favors Ludens over Liandry, and yet Liandry is still doing more damage. Second, I didn't include the Liandry burn damage at all, and Liandry is still doing quite well. Including the burn Liandry would place higher than Ludens in DPS since the difference was only 1 DPS. Third, Liandry is doing this while also having arguably the best defensive stats of any of these items (300 HP) Fourth, it took me less than 10 minutes to make this post I LOVE THIS SPREADSHEET.
10% ms is better than 300 hp most of the time for a champion like lux as a defensive stat.
|
It probably is. Depends on the enemy team lineup I think.
The point of the post is more for Liandry as an item though, using Lux as an example because I have the fancy spreadsheet to make it easy, but also because Lux's kit just plain doesn't like Liandry.
If it's that strong on her, it's going to be a competitive buy on basically any AP Mage in the right situation.
|
ludens is better for poke damage when you hit one spell too especially with the bounce
|
On August 22 2015 15:38 Frudgey wrote:
So the new Darius is quite a bit of fun. I really like him. Not quite used to the reduction in laning power, but I'll get used to it.
As far as items go, it seems like you guys were thinking Black Cleaver and Titanic Hydra, which makes sense to me. But what about defensive items? Obviously it's going to be different from game to game, but I was thinking as sort of a "bread and butter", Warmogs, Spirit Visage (Except I know that ALL of you are going to say Banshee's Veil on this one!) and Dead Man's Plate.
Thoughts?
Warmogs, if you build it at all, should be later in the build. You run the issue of just having a large stack of health with BC, TH, and Warmogs that gets you blown up by % damage.
|
I just tried Sterak's Gage on Renekton, since I was fed and I already had titanic + cleaver. It's crap. All my abilities scale on bonus ad not base ad, the 900~ shield doesn't help with getting kited, I rather have something like Randuins or Dead Man's Plate to stick and be tanky.
|
Yeah, Sterak's outside of Tforce/possibly IBG users and the small amount of guys who scale entirely off base AD is a pretty sad item. But for those guys, fun times.
For Darius, Tforce/Sterak's/Titanic is very funny. It's not good, because I don't really like Tforce on him, but it's hilarious the one time you Q/Tforce AA with W/Titanic AA.
Defensively, I think DMP is mandatory. Visage with his Q heal and the CDR is 100% better than BV, imo. CDR is too good on him. You want to get them in range and never let them leave until you either ult or hit 5 stacks and kill them. Randuin's is a nice second armor item. Sterak's is middling on him; Passive and Ult scale off bonus AD. Maw is always an option. Warmog's is probably good 4th item vs poke, but if the regen wasn't that big of a deal before, I doubt it will be now unless it's a poke comp from hell. Cleaver/Titanic/SV or DMP/whichever you didn't buy and a situational 5th item is probably ideal.
Edit: champion.gg stats, take with a grain of salt
Morde is the highest winrate ADC in the game. It's now his only winning role. He's also listed as Top/Mid/Support/ADC, lol. Protip: Don't support.
People learned how to play Fiora and the buffs helped. She's at 55%.
Skarner is pure bullshit, but everybody knows that.
Darius is significantly undertuned. I'm agreeing after playing with his wimpy Q. Hopefully buffs help.
Garen winrate skyrocketed. How??? The answer is probably items and playrate.
Decent buffs for Liss. Nobody's picking up Liandry though v.v High base and Q spam is somehow not convincing enough.
GP is now a full 5% over pre-rework. Knew it'd be good. Did not think barrels would prove themselves so OP though.
TK is finally getting to 50% and has shown up Jungle
|
Steraks is absolutely nuts good on Wukong.
So much extra ult damage.
|
On August 22 2015 20:57 Slayer91 wrote:
ludens is better for poke damage when you hit one spell too especially with the bounce
Sure but the question was "is Liandrys the second best damage item now?"
Against low to moderate MR Liandrys is trivially first or second for damage (since void used to be second for pretty much all situations since it shreds more MR than void till about 45 MR And has the same AP plus the burn) once you've got them then it's trivially third since Void was second and if you have void Liandrys is as powerful as another hypothetical void until a decent amount of MR)
Even against high MR targets Liandrys penetration is quite powerful and will only be outperformed by Ludens if targets have zero MR to penetrate or if you are poking and hitting low HP targets.
Frankly Sorc/guise should be core on almost all mages right now then you get void/cap/ludens/zhonya to finish your damage build for whatever you particularly need to do(wave clear, move speed etc)
|
You often can't afford to go 3 only offensive items first though.
|
Yeah. The exception to that generic AP build is if you use Liandry's poorly, which is actually fewer mages than you'd think, or if you want Abyssal.
|
On August 23 2015 05:37 Numy wrote:
You often can't afford to go 3 only offensive items first though.
You often can, depending on the match up and state of the game.
That said, the health from guise/liandrys is deceptively good as a form of early defence. Sometimes you can 'get away with it'.
|
On August 23 2015 05:48 Caiada wrote:
Yeah. The exception to that generic AP build is if you use Liandry's poorly, which is actually fewer mages than you'd think, or if you want Abyssal.
The range on abyssal isn't long enough for most mids to reliably use. Additionally because abyssal stacks before % pen (as its shred) it does not have a positive interaction with Void and so will do less damage than Liandrys if you have void as well
|
Does cleansing Ahri charm get rid of the damage amp? Wait they removed the amp when they gave her Q movespeed didn't they.
I suppose this is a Fizz question too.
|
I think cleanse only removes stuff like that if they are part of a movement debuff (like Wither).
|
On August 23 2015 22:27 Ketara wrote:
Does cleansing Ahri charm get rid of the damage amp? Wait they removed the amp when they gave her Q movespeed didn't they.
I suppose this is a Fizz question too.
qss will clear all debuffs cleanse wont
|
Wait they removed the amp when they gave her Q movespeed didn't they.
Yes, in 5.2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
