EPTDeadman's, Omen, Thornmail, pick 1-3.
[Patch 5.16] I'm the Juggernaut Patch Discussion - Page 7
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Deadman's, Omen, Thornmail, pick 1-3. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Are the new armor items just better than the old ones? | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On August 21 2015 17:01 Ketara wrote: Man, is that what the armor items are now? Are the new armor items just better than the old ones? Randuins is still legit good(in certain situations which are pretty common but not necessarily common enough to say it's better) but yes the new armor items are "just plain better". DMP has move move speed on it at full momentum than boots 2 and does over 3 seconds worth of sunfire damage to enemies and slows them when you discharge. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4149 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
(Also the wiki says his ult's passive triggers on-hit effects like Muramana. So with Sated Devourer you hit once, apply Muramana's damage, then hit again, apply Muramana's damage twice, apply ult stacks twice triggering the magic damage, which triggers Muramana... once or twice? So a single aa-W combo would trigger Muramana's effect at least 4 times, maybe 5? That's some brutal burst.  But you need Muramana + Sated Devourer from jungle Jax so can't work.)You get the DMP discharge no matter what, but it only slows if you're at 100 stacks. Which means if you don't mind ulting early as Olaf to avoid getting slowed, you get that 100 damage + slow discharge for sure. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
It's a comprehensive Lux spreadsheet: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9RJKZ5r.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Iyc9ktt.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lXB21W6.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xg1OZDB.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/S9wADTf.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/T0zscEV.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qR858zr.png) After I spent way WAY too long making and bugtesting it, I plugged in a typical Lux build (Athenes Hat Void Zhonya Sorcshoes) to see what was better as a 6th item between Morello, Liandry and Ludens Echo. That only took about 5 minutes. Here's what I found: + Show Spoiler + For damage: (vs. typical late game ADC stats) Morellos was the best for sustained damage. (unsurprising) Liandry beat Ludens at burst not counting the Liandry burn damage at all. (slightly surprising) Ludens beat Liandry at poke DPS, but Liandry beat Ludens at DPS once you're in auto attack range and counting damage from passive. For defense: Ludens gets you 37 more flat movespeed. Liandry gets you about 400 more Effective HP vs. standard enemy pen values. For regen: Luden/Liandry can actually stay in a teamfight without going OOM longer than Morellos (very surprising, the bonus CDR on Morellos drains mana faster than the bonus regen replaces it) Although without counting mana costs in your poke DPS Morellos has better sustained poke damage than Ludens, when you factor in the extra mana spent due to more CDR, Ludens is actually more efficient at poke damage, and Liandry is just barely under Morello (also very surprising) If you add a blue buff and compare the three with blue buff, Ludens/Liandry's sustained damage just beats Morello handedly. (unsurprising) Conclusions: Liandry is a better 6th item if you anticipate short dive-centric fights. Ludens is a better 6th item if you anticipate poke wars. Morellos is really only good as a 6th item if you need the Grievous Wounds debuff, but if you need it the damage loss by not getting one of the above two is more than acceptable. WHAT DO YOU THINK GUYS? AM I CRAZY? Also if anybody wants to show me somewhere I can put it so you can download it and dick around and see if I did anything wrong I'll put it up and you can play with it too. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
@Ketara: good job, now make one for GP so I don't have to. Chop chop. edit: now that I think about it, this seems like exactly the kind of calculator that ought to already exists somewhere on the internet. Did you look before you did all this work? :p | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On August 21 2015 20:24 Alaric wrote: Technically Morello's gives you more shields and cc so better survivability. Well, using my fancy Lux spreadsheet, I can tell you that the extra shields from Morellos CDR only beats Liandry HP after 35 seconds. And I mean that's what CDR runes are for, of course. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
I hate not being able to play and test all this stuff  | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On August 21 2015 20:46 Ketara wrote: Well, using my fancy Lux spreadsheet, I can tell you that the extra shields from Morellos CDR only beats Liandry HP after 35 seconds. And I mean that's what CDR runes are for, of course. Don't be selfish, remember it's AoE and you can cc people diving your buddies too! (I think Viktor, Kassadin, Orianna, etc. would maybe benefit more from the CDR so they can shield more often, for example, but their cooldowns are arguably already shorter on these spells.) | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
On August 21 2015 21:18 JazzVortical wrote: Is liandrys just super underrated as an item now? You no longer take a massive ap hit grabbing it, and haunting guise is obviously a good item to get early. There seems to be much more use in getting an early haunting guise on a lot of champs now, and you don't feel as bad upgrading it eventually. I hate not being able to play and test all this stuff It's pretty underrated and should be considered a lot more frequently than it is, particularly as a last item. I also think Liandry's-heavy champs like Karthus/Zyra/Brand/Mal/Kog are notably better this patch because of the prevalence of all these big health items. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On August 21 2015 18:37 Alaric wrote: Considering Jax's resistances from ult don't update after the cast, do you wait for Sterak's shield to get triggered before ulting or do you ult as normal? You've got to eat 1800 damage at higher levels to trigger it (and that's post-resistnces) so it's probably not worth it compared to just casting it as you walk in now that I think about it... (Also the wiki says his ult's passive triggers on-hit effects like Muramana. So with Sated Devourer you hit once, apply Muramana's damage, then hit again, apply Muramana's damage twice, apply ult stacks twice triggering the magic damage, which triggers Muramana... once or twice? So a single aa-W combo would trigger Muramana's effect at least 4 times, maybe 5? That's some brutal burst. But you need Muramana + Sated Devourer from jungle Jax so can't work.)You get the DMP discharge no matter what, but it only slows if you're at 100 stacks. Which means if you don't mind ulting early as Olaf to avoid getting slowed, you get that 100 damage + slow discharge for sure. Jax ult scales with bonus AD and Sterak's gives base AD so Sterak post-shield buff doesn't matter for when you ult. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On August 21 2015 21:37 Alaric wrote: Don't be selfish, remember it's AoE and you can cc people diving your buddies too! (I think Viktor, Kassadin, Orianna, etc. would maybe benefit more from the CDR so they can shield more often, for example, but their cooldowns are arguably already shorter on these spells.) Saying that you're going to get more shielding on allies because of the shorter cooldown is conjecture though. You could also say that you're going to get more shielding on allies with Liandries because the health will let you survive the enemy team long enough to cast a second shield, or you could say that you're going to get more shielding on allies with Ludens because the movespeed will help you dodge an Ahri charm that would have resulted in you dying without getting a shield off. That's not to say that more CDR doesn't have some utility that isn't represented by pure math, which I know is your point and is totes true. But running the numbers makes me think that it's probably valuable to take CDR/level blues and then just get either Ludens or Liandry (or both and skip Zhonya). Then getting Morello vs. a Vlad/Mundo isn't such an efficient buy, but you should know if you're going to need that in champ select and then you can change your rune page to MR. I originally started on this spreadsheet project because I wanted to correctly calculate how good Liandries is, and while I did a lot more than just that, I can tell you with some certainty that Liandry is really fucking good now. The burn damage is still kind of shitty if you're not a champion like Brand/Rumble/Singed/etc, but apparently for Lux at least Liandry is outdamaging Ludens without counting the burn at all, and also has the burn and 300 HP on it. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On August 21 2015 18:37 Alaric wrote: Considering Jax's resistances from ult don't update after the cast, do you wait for Sterak's shield to get triggered before ulting or do you ult as normal? You've got to eat 1800 damage at higher levels to trigger it (and that's post-resistnces) so it's probably not worth it compared to just casting it as you walk in now that I think about it... (Also the wiki says his ult's passive triggers on-hit effects like Muramana. So with Sated Devourer you hit once, apply Muramana's damage, then hit again, apply Muramana's damage twice, apply ult stacks twice triggering the magic damage, which triggers Muramana... once or twice? So a single aa-W combo would trigger Muramana's effect at least 4 times, maybe 5? That's some brutal burst. But you need Muramana + Sated Devourer from jungle Jax so can't work.)You get the DMP discharge no matter what, but it only slows if you're at 100 stacks. Which means if you don't mind ulting early as Olaf to avoid getting slowed, you get that 100 damage + slow discharge for sure. 1800 is max level, you want to have around 3600 hp by that point anyway. Losing half your hp is nothing in a teamfight you should be able to tell when you're getting bursted, it lasts 8 seconds shouldn't be too hard to time | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
On August 21 2015 22:11 Numy wrote: I remember reading last thread about Fiora items but I can't remember. As your "defensive" item what are people going these days? Hydra -> BC -> LW seems like core offensive if I'm understanding right but with all these new tank items i don't know what is good anymore. Seems a bit early for LW if you need defensive stuff, I would usually get BT third. That is often enough defense to survive a while. Otherwise, DMP is probably ideal for an armor item because movespeed, and Maw or Visage for MR, depending on just how tanky you need to be. Alaric also made me aware Titanic Hydra's health scaling is really really good, so if you're predicting fights to not last enough to get a lot of QAAs off, definitely get it. | ||
Harem
United States11393 Posts
On August 21 2015 22:11 Numy wrote: I remember reading last thread about Fiora items but I can't remember. As your "defensive" item what are people going these days? Hydra -> BC -> LW seems like core offensive if I'm understanding right but with all these new tank items i don't know what is good anymore. BT is great third item as the extra sustain is amazing though a bunch of koreans lately have also been playing around with ER too. Hexdrinker is also situationally good vs ap threats too. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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