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On December 25 2012 12:23 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2012 11:52 pfff wrote:On December 25 2012 09:44 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 25 2012 07:02 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Cho actually beats Darius really hard
I thought it was the other way around at first but after playing both sides pretty extensively it's Cho's lane without heavy camping
Also Vlad is doable but you have to build pure damage with the goal of bursting him before he bursts you you have to be playing some pretty bad darius then. I have hundreds of games on him and have never even come close to losing vs a cho. even if you die from a gank you will always beat him in a straight up fight unless you are underleveled. funny post although you probably dont realise it. Yes, bad cho's lose extremely hard vs heroes that are very strong at lvl 1-5 (darius, riven, xin, ...). The whole point is that good cho's dont fall into that trap and know how to survive these levels without losing lane too hard (e.g. freezing lane correctly right before tower before they can push you into tower at lvl 2-3 and back real quick for a ward and a dorans, ...). You telling him he "must be playing some pretty bad chos" makes your whole post seem stupid as bad cho's are exactly the ones who lose lane vs darius while good chos go equal (and outscale) or win it. Darius cant do anything to cho with his skillset and any semblance of potential jungler presence in the first few levels and gets outfarmed later on, just think for a moment about their respective skillsets and cooldowns and then come up with a scenario where darius kills cho after level 5 and then think about the fact taht cho completely outscales him (especially taking into account the way both of them will have to build in this type of lane) wrong, I played at 2k+ last season and I am 1900 this season. Good chos get crushed too by my darius. If you dont start dorans blade as darius you are doing it wrong. If you want to test your cho against my darius by all means, message me and ill gladly do the matchup with you.
Ye, I play a lot of Darius as well, and I used to shit on Cho with exactly a doran's start, but since the new patch, I really feel that I cant pressure him hard enough to take a big enough advantage (with the move from cs gold to automatic gold), simply because of jungle pressure. Even when I zone him completely (which is dangerous cuz of jungle and cho's huge range to assist a jungle gank), push him into tower and go b quickly for more dorans/wards/... I feel that this just isnt a big enough advantage to really win the lane. Then after lvl 9+ it becomes difficult to kill him without ignite due to his strong disengage and tankiness, and after lvl 11 it seems to become imposssible. I don't know, maybe I am really winning these lanes but not as hard as I would like to with darius hehe, it just seems to become a way too passive lane for a darius to really shine in my opinion.
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Maybe some people hate me for it and I have the assumption that it is more of a solo queue type thingy (although I saw a jungle Darius in competitive korean play at OGN Winter), but I have recently played a lot vs Darius in the jungle and it owned pretty hard.
How would you run him in the jungle? I tried it by myself and tbh I'm not too impressed with his early level jungling, but maybe that's not too important since his ganks are pretty decent from my experience (especially when the lane you gank has a good CC by itself already)?
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On December 26 2012 23:06 pfff wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2012 12:23 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 25 2012 11:52 pfff wrote:On December 25 2012 09:44 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 25 2012 07:02 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Cho actually beats Darius really hard
I thought it was the other way around at first but after playing both sides pretty extensively it's Cho's lane without heavy camping
Also Vlad is doable but you have to build pure damage with the goal of bursting him before he bursts you you have to be playing some pretty bad darius then. I have hundreds of games on him and have never even come close to losing vs a cho. even if you die from a gank you will always beat him in a straight up fight unless you are underleveled. funny post although you probably dont realise it. Yes, bad cho's lose extremely hard vs heroes that are very strong at lvl 1-5 (darius, riven, xin, ...). The whole point is that good cho's dont fall into that trap and know how to survive these levels without losing lane too hard (e.g. freezing lane correctly right before tower before they can push you into tower at lvl 2-3 and back real quick for a ward and a dorans, ...). You telling him he "must be playing some pretty bad chos" makes your whole post seem stupid as bad cho's are exactly the ones who lose lane vs darius while good chos go equal (and outscale) or win it. Darius cant do anything to cho with his skillset and any semblance of potential jungler presence in the first few levels and gets outfarmed later on, just think for a moment about their respective skillsets and cooldowns and then come up with a scenario where darius kills cho after level 5 and then think about the fact taht cho completely outscales him (especially taking into account the way both of them will have to build in this type of lane) wrong, I played at 2k+ last season and I am 1900 this season. Good chos get crushed too by my darius. If you dont start dorans blade as darius you are doing it wrong. If you want to test your cho against my darius by all means, message me and ill gladly do the matchup with you. Ye, I play a lot of Darius as well, and I used to shit on Cho with exactly a doran's start, but since the new patch, I really feel that I cant pressure him hard enough to take a big enough advantage (with the move from cs gold to automatic gold), simply because of jungle pressure. Even when I zone him completely (which is dangerous cuz of jungle and cho's huge range to assist a jungle gank), push him into tower and go b quickly for more dorans/wards/... I feel that this just isnt a big enough advantage to really win the lane. Then after lvl 9+ it becomes difficult to kill him without ignite due to his strong disengage and tankiness, and after lvl 11 it seems to become imposssible. I don't know, maybe I am really winning these lanes but not as hard as I would like to with darius hehe, it just seems to become a way too passive lane for a darius to really shine in my opinion.
Actually maybe this is the source of my confusion, I was sure that darius beat cho until I played the match from both sides in a s3 tourney. Cho won the lane REALLY hard in both games and I think I'm a far superior player than the guy I played against. Have you played the matchup extensively post-s3? I'm pretty sure Cho + flask is just impossible to beat.
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On December 27 2012 10:09 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 23:06 pfff wrote:On December 25 2012 12:23 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 25 2012 11:52 pfff wrote:On December 25 2012 09:44 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 25 2012 07:02 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Cho actually beats Darius really hard
I thought it was the other way around at first but after playing both sides pretty extensively it's Cho's lane without heavy camping
Also Vlad is doable but you have to build pure damage with the goal of bursting him before he bursts you you have to be playing some pretty bad darius then. I have hundreds of games on him and have never even come close to losing vs a cho. even if you die from a gank you will always beat him in a straight up fight unless you are underleveled. funny post although you probably dont realise it. Yes, bad cho's lose extremely hard vs heroes that are very strong at lvl 1-5 (darius, riven, xin, ...). The whole point is that good cho's dont fall into that trap and know how to survive these levels without losing lane too hard (e.g. freezing lane correctly right before tower before they can push you into tower at lvl 2-3 and back real quick for a ward and a dorans, ...). You telling him he "must be playing some pretty bad chos" makes your whole post seem stupid as bad cho's are exactly the ones who lose lane vs darius while good chos go equal (and outscale) or win it. Darius cant do anything to cho with his skillset and any semblance of potential jungler presence in the first few levels and gets outfarmed later on, just think for a moment about their respective skillsets and cooldowns and then come up with a scenario where darius kills cho after level 5 and then think about the fact taht cho completely outscales him (especially taking into account the way both of them will have to build in this type of lane) wrong, I played at 2k+ last season and I am 1900 this season. Good chos get crushed too by my darius. If you dont start dorans blade as darius you are doing it wrong. If you want to test your cho against my darius by all means, message me and ill gladly do the matchup with you. Ye, I play a lot of Darius as well, and I used to shit on Cho with exactly a doran's start, but since the new patch, I really feel that I cant pressure him hard enough to take a big enough advantage (with the move from cs gold to automatic gold), simply because of jungle pressure. Even when I zone him completely (which is dangerous cuz of jungle and cho's huge range to assist a jungle gank), push him into tower and go b quickly for more dorans/wards/... I feel that this just isnt a big enough advantage to really win the lane. Then after lvl 9+ it becomes difficult to kill him without ignite due to his strong disengage and tankiness, and after lvl 11 it seems to become imposssible. I don't know, maybe I am really winning these lanes but not as hard as I would like to with darius hehe, it just seems to become a way too passive lane for a darius to really shine in my opinion. Actually maybe this is the source of my confusion, I was sure that darius beat cho until I played the match from both sides in a s3 tourney. Cho won the lane REALLY hard in both games and I think I'm a far superior player than the guy I played against. Have you played the matchup extensively post-s3? I'm pretty sure Cho + flask is just impossible to beat.
What was the jungle impact of the games? in a 1v1 scenario i am very certain that darius destroys cho even in season 3, but obviously junglers can change that really easily or a simply misplay. Top lane is the most unforgiving.
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Let's say their jungler is more skilled but I got FB off of a gank when I'm playing Cho, and in the part where I'm on the Darius side I would have killed him every time if their jungler didn't show up at the precise moment I all-in'd about 3 times in a row. Both games Cho stomped the shit out of lane, but I guess when I'm playing Cho and I get FB it's just done anyway.
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United States37500 Posts
Just play each other alreadyyyyy. :3
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For whatever it's worth, my $0.02 is that Darius wins pretty easily without gonks and that Cho supports gonks much better. Matchup has always seemed like it's 100% decided by junglers in my experiences.
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On December 27 2012 17:24 NeoIllusions wrote:
Just play each other alreadyyyyy. :3
+1
Please post the results here?
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I've played the matchup a few more times since and it's basically typical top lane vs darius, whoever gets first gank/kill wins really hard.
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On December 27 2012 05:43 little fancy wrote:
Maybe some people hate me for it and I have the assumption that it is more of a solo queue type thingy (although I saw a jungle Darius in competitive korean play at OGN Winter), but I have recently played a lot vs Darius in the jungle and it owned pretty hard.
How would you run him in the jungle? I tried it by myself and tbh I'm not too impressed with his early level jungling, but maybe that's not too important since his ganks are pretty decent from my experience (especially when the lane you gank has a good CC by itself already)?
If your lane can get the opponent's flash off them, they're dead. Been playing a good bit of jungle Darius lately, but I don't have a fantastic build order for you since I get fed every game. Built Wriggles->BC->FM->Hydra... big damage, tanky, useful in teamfights. I want to experiment with mobility boots for epic funs, his cleartime is already superfast.
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On January 02 2013 23:45 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I've played the matchup a few more times since and it's basically typical top lane vs darius, whoever gets first gank/kill wins really hard.
Sounds like toplane
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On January 03 2013 00:08 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 05:43 little fancy wrote:
Maybe some people hate me for it and I have the assumption that it is more of a solo queue type thingy (although I saw a jungle Darius in competitive korean play at OGN Winter), but I have recently played a lot vs Darius in the jungle and it owned pretty hard.
How would you run him in the jungle? I tried it by myself and tbh I'm not too impressed with his early level jungling, but maybe that's not too important since his ganks are pretty decent from my experience (especially when the lane you gank has a good CC by itself already)? If your lane can get the opponent's flash off them, they're dead. Been playing a good bit of jungle Darius lately, but I don't have a fantastic build order for you since I get fed every game. Built Wriggles->BC->FM->Hydra... big damage, tanky, useful in teamfights. I want to experiment with mobility boots for epic funs, his cleartime is already superfast.
Does rushing mob boots still work like it used to in S2?
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United States15536 Posts
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I think the patch will balance him, but who knows.
It always confuses me that his passive can stack and does like 60 dmg at level 1 with 1 stack. That's more than most champions can do with an auto or a lvl 1 spell. Like I'm honestly confused how Darius doesn't have a higher win rate. Maybe People just die in ganks as him or are immobile or steal kills. IDK
He's so easy to play.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 16 2013 02:13 obesechicken13 wrote:I think the patch will balance him, but who knows. It always confuses me that his passive can stack and does like 60 dmg at level 1 with 1 stack. That's more than most champions can do with an auto or a lvl 1 spell. Like I'm honestly confused how Darius doesn't have a higher win rate. Maybe People just die in ganks as him or are immobile or steal kills. IDK He's so easy to play.
Cause he makes your own teammates rage on top of making the enemy rage. You press R a few times, steal a few kills and your teammates at low elo rage and afk.
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On January 16 2013 02:27 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:13 obesechicken13 wrote:I think the patch will balance him, but who knows. It always confuses me that his passive can stack and does like 60 dmg at level 1 with 1 stack. That's more than most champions can do with an auto or a lvl 1 spell. Like I'm honestly confused how Darius doesn't have a higher win rate. Maybe People just die in ganks as him or are immobile or steal kills. IDK He's so easy to play. Cause he makes your own teammates rage on top of making the enemy rage. You press R a few times, steal a few kills and your teammates at low elo rage and afk.
Yeah that's probably the best explanation.
I'm 9-1 with him in ranked and at least 6-3 in normals with him. I feel he's a bit unfair. You just don't steal kills from an AD unless necessary and suddenly Darius is just most clearly the most OP champion in the game.
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he is an underappreciated jungler, good clear, decent ganks, monster damage.
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how many times was darius picked at LCS? nerf olaf first please morello
people bitch about darius' ult? olaf's E does more damage than darius' ult on a fucking 5 second cooldown
salty
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 16 2013 02:41 gtrsrs wrote:
how many times was darius picked at LCS? nerf olaf first please morello
people bitch about darius' ult? olaf's E does more damage than darius' ult on a fucking 5 second cooldown
salty
Honestly, I think Morello just likes nerfing shit that wrecks him in Trolo Q.
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On January 16 2013 02:45 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:41 gtrsrs wrote:
how many times was darius picked at LCS? nerf olaf first please morello
people bitch about darius' ult? olaf's E does more damage than darius' ult on a fucking 5 second cooldown
salty Honestly, I think Morello just likes nerfing shit that wrecks him in Trolo Q.
No wai. That would mean he'd end up nerfing everything... oh wait
In all honesty it probably just looks like that. There's probably more going into deciding if something should be nerfed.
On January 16 2013 02:41 gtrsrs wrote:
how many times was darius picked at LCS? nerf olaf first please morello
people bitch about darius' ult? olaf's E does more damage than darius' ult on a fucking 5 second cooldown
salty
I think pro games are weird. Pros pick shen a lot but he has a low win rate in yolo queue. Then pros coordinate ganks and save allies with Shen's ult like 7 times before laning ends. I think it's a similar idea behind Olaf: his ult makes it REALLY hard to gank him.
But Olaf definitely looks strong too.
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EPT
