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On July 03 2013 08:49 Ic3dT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 06:15 Gahlo wrote:
BotRK is the strongest item for tanky characters that only build 1 offensive item. I feel like BotRK isn't that strong on Darius because he does not really auto-attack that much outside of his w, Black Cleaver might be better due to the CDR and Arpen with even more Health.
Higher stacks on the target make for faster W cds and stronger ults. The armor pen clashes with the pen on his E and the health is negligible when we're looking for the "the one offensive item."
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Personally I do like Black Cleaver on Darius, as it builds out of the Brutalizer.
This is just my intuition, but getting a Brutalizer -> Warmogs -> Black Cleaver on Darius feels pretty powerful. That being said, I can definitely see the argument for getting a BoTK on him as well.
Just my 2 cents.
P.S. Does the armor pen on the Black Cleaver really clash with Apprehend's passive? I would have thought that the effects would have been additive or multiplicative.
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The effect is multiplicative I believe. If you have 5 stacks of BC on a target, he now only has 75% of his armor, then your e will ignore 25% of that 75%.
Botrk active is nice but I feel like the team utility of BC (shredding armor for your adc) and the CDR are better suited on Darius.
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On July 03 2013 09:29 Frudgey wrote:
Personally I do like Black Cleaver on Darius, as it builds out of the Brutalizer.
This is just my intuition, but getting a Brutalizer -> Warmogs -> Black Cleaver on Darius feels pretty powerful. That being said, I can definitely see the argument for getting a BoTK on him as well.
Just my 2 cents.
P.S. Does the armor pen on the Black Cleaver really clash with Apprehend's passive? I would have thought that the effects would have been additive or multiplicative.
they don't clash anymore, they did at the time I wrote the guide. Season 3 changed the stack order of flat pen with % pen.
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So, after LW just doesn't seem to cut it, I cluelessly went for Mercurial Scimitar as a 6th item in some long games and this one actually did surprise me in a good way. Not only does it give MR besides Mercs/MoM against the uprising double AP comps, but people don't really expect a Darius to instantly break free from a CC they relied on to fight him, including the initial speed buff which usually is enough to get into E range. And the big chunk of AD makes the lategame ult hit for roughly 1000k true damage at 5 stacks.
So currently, my endbuilds look something like this:
Boots (mostly Merc/Tabi, but Swifties too, if needed)
Spirit of the Elder Lizard
Maw of Malmortius
Frozen Mallet
Frozen Heart
Mercurial Scimitar
Only downside is that you stop at 3k HP or something, so I'm considering exchanging SotEL with some HP, probably Randuin's for the pull-in followed up by a very long lasting slow (you become so stacked on resistance it's not even funny for the enemy).
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I think for your case taking out Spirit of the Elder Lizard and throwing in either Randuin's or Warmogs would be a good idea. You're already getting plenty of attack damage from your other items so one more defensive item couldn't hurt.
And while I'm not claiming to be a good player, here's what my end build typically looks like:
Boots (Typically Merc Treads)
Black Cleaver
Warmogs
Randuin's Omen
Guardian Angel
Maw of Malmortius
I always find it interesting the different builds that people do for Darius. Though I'm certainly going to try little fancy's build. That stuff looks delicious.
P.S. Is Jungle Darius a thing? My friend insists that Darius isn't a good jungler yet I've heard people on Team Liquid say that he's at least a decent jungler.
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I'm thinking of just ditching SotEL for Brutalizer. It just seems to cost too much for what it does.
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Is hydra a viable item on Darius? I have tried it a couple games and it seems pretty strong plus it makes his already good wave clear even better
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Hydra is viable sure
I might go another damage item though because its pretty expensive and he already wipes out an entire minion wave in seconds. You don't need any more wave clear than that, it wont make the next wave come any faster.
Jungle Darius is definitely a thing. Its not even gimmicky in the slightest. He clears well and his ganks are absolutely terrifying with the hook and powerful slow even at level 3. I play him all the time. He's also very nicely versatile in the jungle, as you can build as tanky or as damaging as is needed and do well. I recommend getting Spirit of the Ancient Golem and Mobi boots early for the tenacity and ganking power, as you don't need any damage items early. If you can get into range of someone you can stick to them easily with the movespeed from passive and the W slow and then hook if they escape for a nearly guaranteed kill. His dueling is also silly good so you can totally fuck anyone trying to counterjungle you if you catch them.
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I've historically built Hydra on Darius because auto w proc is just so strong for AoE but do you think BotRK might be better given that it's impossible to dodge hooks without flash once you get slowed by the active?
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On August 16 2013 18:54 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I've historically built Hydra on Darius because auto w proc is just so strong for AoE but do you think BotRK might be better given that it's impossible to dodge hooks without flash once you get slowed by the active?
I think it is better.
1. AS is great because you need to get 5 stacks of bleed as fast as possible.
2. Percent health damage synergizes with his free armor pen lategame.
3. The active allows you to engage with it and stick on someone until they have 4-5 stacks before you use W, which results in a lower CD W and more damage. Whereas without it you typically need to blow W earlier to guarantee constant DPS.
4. The active allows for maximum WTF burst finishing of people who though they were totally winning a duel.
It annoys me that it doesn't take perfect advantage of his good AD Ratios, but I still think its the best option. There are a ton of items that work well on Darius. I've built Zephyr and Wits (not at the same time) and had good results.
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I don't think I'd go BotRK on Darius under nearly any circumstances. If you want a pure damage item, get something with AD to take advantage of his bullshit ratios and Attack Reset. Why do you need AS when you can pull -> auto -> Q -> auto -> W -> auto for full stacks pretty fucking fast with little to no counterplay outside of flash? If they build armor, you're better off going LW than BotRK and relying on your E passive (which doesn't do much against someone with a single big armor item like GA or higher). If you need sticking power, FMallet is better as long as you can reliably land pulls.
Then again, I'm of the opinion that Darius should be built tanky pretty much at all times, even if you crush your lane. I built Hydra a few times recently because I was splitpushing, but I'd never really advocate him as one who builds damage items.
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The only offensive Item I build regularly is hexdrinker. I Darius never lacks damage and allways lacks tankyness and anti kite. So getting to randuins fast is almost allways a good choice imo. ranuins, mercs hexdrinker is my core, except I face tons of ad then I go tabi. And even after that I rather build a mallet than a purely offensive item like botrk and flash/ghost into their team.
dunno about you guys but i allways die a little inside when my toplaner is too pussy to initiate because he only has lifesteal and mb a giants belt.
oh and not to mention randuins pretty much hardcounters anything that builds lifesteal against darius.
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Speaking of Flash/Ghost, I started seeing a lot of Dariuses run Ghost in top lane. While Flash-Pull initates are cool, they seemed to perform much better in teamfights and didn't allow enemies to escape, not to mention made him a bit harder to gank in top lane.
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Could work. It works on Vlad, but Vlad isn't as much of a lane bully (usually), while Darius wants Ignite for early kills. On the other hand, your damage is usually high enough to not need it.
The only thing I'd miss is the Grievous Wounds passive. Ignite is pretty necessary to shut down Lifesteal on ADs in the late game (or certain champions like Singed/Mundo/Vlad with high health regen), so unless you have someone else with ignite that'd going to be diving the AD, I'd sorely miss it.
Randuin's cuts down on the Lifesteal for sure, but they'll still get a decent amount per hit.
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Hey I have a question for you jungle Darius's out there.
So I definitely want to play more jungle Darius, and I've been doing some theory crafting about this. How many of you guys take your initial blue buff and then go over to their red buff to mess up the enemy jungler good? I mean of course it seems situational, but it doesn't seem like a bad idea at all to go to their jungle and mess them up. Darius is a pretty good duelist after all.
I'm not that familiar to jungling so please forgive me if this ends up being a (very) dumb question.
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I was going to let this stew to see if someone who plays Darius would pop up but I'll give you a general assessment based on general game knowledge.
This idea seems legit in the sense that lvl2 Darius can probably manfight anything not called Volibear at level 2, especially if he can con them into tanking the red buff.
here are my concerns.
-Extremely leash dependant, as Darius pretty much just has to deal with the damage golem does to it (no shields/heals)
-Darius can't take ignite, a lot of the junglers who can pull this off on the regular are junglers who can afford to take ignite, Darius with ignite/smite isn't too much of a gank threat
-Ghost has potential to be strong on Darius but this strat requires flash into baron/dragon pick to be available should things get dicy.
-depends on the strength of the surrounding lanes, if you have mid Ryze for example it might not be a good choice.
So all in all it seems like a bit of a gamble, but Darius is a bit of a snowball jungle anyway so I say fuck it, I'd look to see if I can viably open Dblade on Darius, perhaps try Diamond's 14/3/13 setup, if can get blue down w/o smite and 70%+ health available, go baylife on some niggas
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I encountered a darius jungle recently that strongly impressed me. He ran ghost/smite, rushed golem spirit and mobies, and could just dive toplane everytime his ghost was up (he was blue side). Overall he just crushed the game and snowballed really hard, so my opinion may be a bit skewed.
But with mobies and ghost, he really is a scary mofo.
I kinda want to try him now :/
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I'm so bad at invades. How do you do them correctly? I only can do it on like lee sin, everyone else they either just take red and flash out if I wait till they get low, or If I just engage way early before they fight red for a while then mid has time to come in and kill me while we manfight. If you try to actually "steal" red then its just comes down to a smite off and if you lose then you are way behind.
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EPT
