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On January 16 2013 02:33 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:27 Roffles wrote:On January 16 2013 02:13 obesechicken13 wrote:I think the patch will balance him, but who knows. It always confuses me that his passive can stack and does like 60 dmg at level 1 with 1 stack. That's more than most champions can do with an auto or a lvl 1 spell. Like I'm honestly confused how Darius doesn't have a higher win rate. Maybe People just die in ganks as him or are immobile or steal kills. IDK He's so easy to play. Cause he makes your own teammates rage on top of making the enemy rage. You press R a few times, steal a few kills and your teammates at low elo rage and afk. Yeah that's probably the best explanation. I'm 9-1 with him in ranked and at least 6-3 in normals with him. I feel he's a bit unfair. You just don't steal kills from an AD unless necessary and suddenly Darius is just most clearly the most OP champion in the game.
While I like the playstyle of Darius, I think he is just way too strong. There are a few things that really annoy me about him, and they all add up to be what I consider to be generally the most OP champion in top-lane right now.
1) He wins most low-level exchanges.
In a straight-up fight at levels 1-3, Darius wins vs the vast majority of champions out there.
2) 550 range displacement ability.
Characters that can poke Darius with an auto-attack without ending up in a full-on fight: Caitlyn, Tristana @ level 16 or so, maybe Annie.
Realistically, Darius is basically immune to poke available to most champions in the early laning phases. At best, most champs trade either mana or hp to poke at him, and that is almost always a losing battle with his huge base stats.
3) Playing from behind.
Even if Darius somehow manages to lose those initial fights, he is never out of the game. It is not uncommon to have his ult doing upwards of 600 true damage by level 11. This 1 ability means that Darius only has to worry about getting champions down to ~40%hp and he is back in the game. His remaining abilities allow for that to happen in 1 or 2 exchanges, even when he is behind.
4) The typical bruiser complaint.
Even if Darius builds 100% defense, his base damages are so high, it doesn't even matter. On top of that, his AD scaling is ridiculous, it's like Riot knew that tank-Darius would be too strong, so they just gave him insane AP ratios in hopes that people would hopefully invest in offense instead so that maybe someone might kill him eventually.
Really, the only issue Darius seems to have at all is the lack of a closer, but with such a huge presence in lane, it doesn't even seem to matter. When Darius eventually gets there, people die.
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I play yorick when someone picks darius, I don't think I have lost yet. He is defs strong in lane, but he pushes if he wants to harass early and doesn't have any real escapes. He is really strong 1v1, but if you team is coordinated he really isn't that big a deal.
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United States37500 Posts
So even with Darius, you can continue to ride the Elder Lizard train. Works out pretty well now with the Red Elixir nerf.
Open bead + 5 pots + ward + 1 mana. Lane like usual. With Elder Lizard, it's twice as much DoT damage but you get AD+CDR on top of it.
Giant's Belt if you need defensive stats. I Brutalizer for additional CDR/AD/ArPen.
Good times.
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On May 16 2013 03:52 NeoIllusions wrote:
So even with Darius, you can continue to ride the Elder Lizard train. Works out pretty well now with the Red Elixir nerf.
Open bead + 5 pots + ward + 1 mana. Lane like usual. With Elder Lizard, it's twice as much DoT damage but you get AD+CDR on top of it.
Giant's Belt if you need defensive stats. I Brutalizer for additional CDR/AD/ArPen.
Good times.
If you're taking 5 pots you might as well get the faerie charm imo, but this sounds really awesome. Ever since the red pot nerf I've kinda stopped playing top lane, but Elder Lizard seems like a really good idea on Darius.
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Carry Us Darius has been using that build for awhile now and it's been looking pretty effective.
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On May 16 2013 03:52 NeoIllusions wrote:
So even with Darius, you can continue to ride the Elder Lizard train. Works out pretty well now with the Red Elixir nerf.
Open bead + 5 pots + ward + 1 mana. Lane like usual. With Elder Lizard, it's twice as much DoT damage but you get AD+CDR on top of it.
Giant's Belt if you need defensive stats. I Brutalizer for additional CDR/AD/ArPen.
Good times.
that sounds absolutely fucking hilarious. i must do this. now.
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Wait a second, crippling strike has a 8second CD that is reduced by a second for each passive stack
with 40% CDR the CD is 4.8 seconds, so with 5 stacks it has no CD? Does this work? 200%AD and a 40% slow on every attack? Would be pretty mana spendy I guess...
Edit: this doesn't work, %CDR is applied after stack cdr
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Is Spirit of the Elder Lizard actually a good item on Darius? I wouldn't know as I am still quite new to the game and haven't quite got my item builds down.
Also another question:
During the laning phase, when is a good time to harass the opponent with decimate? Should I go for it every time the enemy is in range? The reason I ask is because if I throw out decimates to constantly harass the opponent, I'm going to push the lane to their tower.
So I guess the question is essentially if the extra harassment damage is worth the pushed out lane.
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I would also love to know about Elder Lizard. Also i have a really hard time in teamfights with Darius. I feel like my role is to tank, but i don't feel like i really have the tools to do so. I can peel semi well with the pull and slow, but i just don't feel like it's enough. Also with the low mobility i feel like i get poked way too easily.
I would really like to improve with this champ because he's one of my favorites. His flavor is through the roof and he has one of the most satisfying ultimates in the game.
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United States37500 Posts
You should be building tanky. In reality, all you need is Elder Lizard as offensive item. Build resists from there. Even boots, stick with Tabi or Mercs. Darius needs to flank well. If you're chasing down in a straight line, then yes, expect to get kited.
Be brave, Flash Apprehend if you can ensure a combo kill.
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Elder Lizard is exceptionally good on Darius. It's pretty much the perfect cost to reliably invest into offensive itemization before Darius needs to start tanking out to be effective, it's giving him pretty much his ideal offensive stats in AD and CDR, and after the Season 3 item update, spirit stone is the best cheap regen item in the game, which is a very underappreciated part of the equation.
Nothing in this game is clear and simple, I would say Decimate whenever possible if they're letting you sweet-spot it, but this is assuming you have good wards and pressure from your team to avoid dying for pushing. Mitigate the pushing from it by positioning to the sides of creep waves rather than in the middle of them if you really can't afford to push but still need to trade to keep lane presence.
Teamfighting as Darius depends on soooo many factors. Essentially you look for pulls when you can pull people and kill them quickly and otherwise try to find your way to the middle/back of the opposing team without drawing all their focus (typically by deferring initiation to someone else on your team and coming in as a secondary front liner). The most common mistake I see Dariuses making late game is acting as their team's primary tank and trying to facetank the opposing team. It doesn't matter how many defensive items you have, Darius has no abilities that help him mitigate or avoid damage. At the end of the day, Darius is a reset-based damage carry who needs to wade through the opposing team to do his job (which is why he typically builds so damn tanky).
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United States37500 Posts
What Smash says is so true. At the end of the day, with all your defensive items, you're not a Malphite. You don't have a Brutal Strikes that increases your Armor or Ground Pound that's going to decrease the enemies' AS. On a spectrum scale, Darius is always going to be more offensive than defensive.
Defensive items just helps ensure that you can a few hits but stay alive long enough in team fights to chain Guillotine and clean up. But by no means why you behave like the initiator for your team. In a team fight, I would be extremely cautious to even use Apprehend. It's great when you're dueling 1v1 but in 5v5, Apprehend tends to fuck your team up more than being beneficial.
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Hey do any of you TL knowledge bombs have tips on Darius vs Irelia and Jax?
Supposedly Darius can hold his own against those champions, but obviously I suck and can't win my lane.
Thanks in advance!
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On May 26 2013 05:15 NeoIllusions wrote:
What Smash says is so true. At the end of the day, with all your defensive items, you're not a Malphite. You don't have a Brutal Strikes that increases your Armor or Ground Pound that's going to decrease the enemies' AS. On a spectrum scale, Darius is always going to be more offensive than defensive.
Defensive items just helps ensure that you can a few hits but stay alive long enough in team fights to chain Guillotine and clean up. But by no means why you behave like the initiator for your team. In a team fight, I would be extremely cautious to even use Apprehend. It's great when you're dueling 1v1 but in 5v5, Apprehend tends to fuck your team up more than being beneficial.
while I agree that you should be careful with Apprehend, its also an EXTREMELY underrated teamfight ability when combined with other AOE. People generally think about it as a hook, when really in a teamfight it can be basically an orianna ult but more predictable and closer packing. Its one of the best displacement moves in the game because it literally stacks everything in its cone DIRECTLY ontop of Darius. Combine a good flash Apprehend with Xerath or Rumble or fucking Tibbers and it ends a teamfight instantly.
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What do you folks think about movement speed quints? Whenever I didn't use them on Darius, I missed them a lot. Also, Swiftie boots have served me well in quite a number of games yet when the enemy was lacking hard CC.
I just overlooked SotEL, definitely have to try it. Looks good on paper. But do you really feel like that is enough to be a real threat? I used to inculde a Last Whisper in my last games with him and fell in love with the Mallet (which I think Darius wants almost every game) + Hexdrinker / MoM combination. It's just so much effective HP, mallet's HP interacts so well with MoM's passive and the item's components are nice to have against pesky top lane Zacs. For additional CDR, I found Frozen Heart to be pretty effective, it also sustains you with dunk mana in drawn out fights.
Maybe we might see a Darius here or there in the LCS? I feel like he matches pretty well with all these Kennens that have magically risen in the last two weeks. On a completely irrelevant note, which skin do you guys prefer on Darius? Contrary to my friend's believe, I actually like the new Woad Darius skin, but maybe that's just odd me.
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On July 01 2013 06:53 little fancy wrote:
What do you folks think about movement speed quints? Whenever I didn't use them on Darius, I missed them a lot. Also, Swiftie boots have served me well in quite a number of games yet when the enemy was lacking hard CC.
I just overlooked SotEL, definitely have to try it. Looks good on paper. But do you really feel like that is enough to be a real threat? I used to inculde a Last Whisper in my last games with him and fell in love with the Mallet (which I think Darius wants almost every game) + Hexdrinker / MoM combination. It's just so much effective HP, mallet's HP interacts so well with MoM's passive and the item's components are nice to have against pesky top lane Zacs. For additional CDR, I found Frozen Heart to be pretty effective, it also sustains you with dunk mana in drawn out fights.
Maybe we might see a Darius here or there in the LCS? I feel like he matches pretty well with all these Kennens that have magically risen in the last two weeks. On a completely irrelevant note, which skin do you guys prefer on Darius? Contrary to my friend's believe, I actually like the new Woad Darius skin, but maybe that's just odd me.
I personally don't use movement speed quints or Frozen Mallet, as I don't really feel that Darius has problems sticking on to people. Swifties I haven't experimented too much on Summoner's Rift, but I do always pick them up when I play Dominion. For 5's I usually end up getting Merc Treads, as I need more magic resist in addition to my hexdrinker.
Frozen Heart isn't something I've even considered, so I'm going to have to tinker around with that.
As for the LCS I was under the impression that Darius never sees any professional play, so it doesn't seem likely. Mind you I don't follow the pro scene at all so I could be talking absolute madness here.
Also Toad King Darius is awesome. Easily my favorite Darius skin. Classic is great too. I don't really like Lord Darius for some reason and Bioforge Darius is just... I don't know. Bioforge looks like he wants to be a sphess mahrine, but that slicked hair is bringing him down.
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MS Quints are high oppurtunity cost for laning. You can get away with them vs. ranged characters and hell, they might even be your best bet vs. ranged matchups, but vs. Melee, you need combat stats from your quints unless it's a really soft lane.
Lizard Elder lost 10 AD last patch, so it's iffy now. Phage, Bruta or Hexdrinker for early laning offense is probably the best way to go these days unless you get far ahead and can afford to go BT rush, though Lizard is probably still fine.
Darius shows up in profession play as a super niche pick. He's not common because his 1v2 is straight up dreadful, but he's still managed to show up occasionally, most notably as a tank buster vs. the popular Xin picks early in S3. He is only ever picked to brawl the opposing front line because his team has a strong enough back line to put the impetus on engaging on the opposing team though (i.e. he's basically picked as a peeler who's strongest form of CC is killing the opposing divers).
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Thanks for your answers guys.
I played him some more and had best results with an almost full tank build with decent CDR (Frozen Heart + 2 giant belt items is boss). Hexdrinker and later MoM are core imo unless they really don't have meaningful magic damage. So, that's 4 items + boots 2 which leaves space for one 'real' damage item besides the AD from Hexdrinker. This one damage item I feel Darius really needs to not get ignored later.
I didn't like SotEL if the game took too long, but don't think that Bloodthirster fits too well either. Because I had no other real idea, I went for Last Whisper but wasn't impressed too either. Maybe Atma's impaler might be decent enough with 3.5k hp?
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On July 03 2013 05:43 little fancy wrote:
Thanks for your answers guys.
I played him some more and had best results with an almost full tank build with decent CDR (Frozen Heart + 2 giant belt items is boss). Hexdrinker and later MoM are core imo unless they really don't have meaningful magic damage. So, that's 4 items + boots 2 which leaves space for one 'real' damage item besides the AD from Hexdrinker. This one damage item I feel Darius really needs to not get ignored later.
I didn't like SotEL if the game took too long, but don't think that Bloodthirster fits too well either. Because I had no other real idea, I went for Last Whisper but wasn't impressed too either. Maybe Atma's impaler might be decent enough with 3.5k hp?
BotRK is the strongest item for tanky characters that only build 1 offensive item.
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On July 03 2013 06:15 Gahlo wrote:
BotRK is the strongest item for tanky characters that only build 1 offensive item.
I feel like BotRK isn't that strong on Darius because he does not really auto-attack that much outside of his w, Black Cleaver might be better due to the CDR and Arpen with even more Health.
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EPT
