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So your statement is that..
a) You either get 0-0-5 as support and dont need gold/10 items cause you get money from assists anyway which is very common at 1600+ elo.
b) Games end at 30 minutes anyway, that's why more than one gold/10 items is a waste of an investment.
Therefore one might conclude that more than one philo on ANY champ is horrible cause other champs get even more gold from farm/kills/assists.
So basicly building gold items on junglers/jarvan/irelia beyond the first one is bad?
(Yes, I'm exagerating. Just to show the result of spinning that chain of thought onto other things where it has to be valid just the same.)
... Yes, I agree, building a gold item at 0-20 or 20-0 is completely retarded. However, every other of your points doesn't seem very valid to me. Past 20-25 minutes I can agree with kindlegem > HoG, but no way it's more valuable earlier. Gold items on support (compared to no gold items on enemy support)
allow you to:
-> Abuse leads (cuz you can ward even more)
-> Come back from behing behind (cuz you can ward and keep up oracles you otherwise wouldn't have the money for
-> Getting another free ward every 2 minutes EASILY beats 10% CDR early in the game.
-> You actually build up gold for "real" items (Kindlegem/Auraitems), because you don't have to spend every coin you get from assists on Wards/Oracles.
Edit: Actually the kindlegem is a great comparison cause both items give health.
What do you want more on a support? An extra ward every 2 minutes or 10% CDR? Once I feel that I can basicly piss out wards quicker than the enemy support can remove them (trollol) I'd want the CDR. Maybe it's me wasting too much money on wards, but for me I feel that amount of gold comes in after 2-3 gold items, not after 1.
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I am saying that you don't get enough assists to afford more than 2 gold/10 items before 20 minutes.
Other champs actually get farm and can afford their gold/10 items much earlier.
HoG is just a bad item on Janna because in 99% of the cases you don't really want to build a Randuin's and since you get that HoG so late selling it will not be efficient either. So you just get the Kindlegem instead because you want a Reverie or Soul Shroud anyways.
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AP Janna seems to be picking up some popularity. I've done it a few times with success in a duo lane as "support", but I was wondering how you guys build and play her.
I tried going gold/5 into mejai and hat which worked, but probably only because the other team was bad, and also a standard caster build (ring rings sorc shoes hat) which I felt left me a bit squishy and without CDR (but also worked probably because the other team was bad).
I'm also not entirely sure about the skill order.
I was going: Q,W,W,E,W,R where W>Q>E>R.
gold/5 build: http://i.imgur.com/uQqNy.jpg
normal caster: http://i.imgur.com/ohx1W.jpg
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To quote myself before
In lane the ideal situation for Janna (similar to Sona) is that you level W most (or Q in Sona's case), get a level of E to prevent creep damage on your carry, and just gun the other lane down. Most of the damage being dealt should be on Janna/Sona, letting the carry run wild and take minimal damage while last hitting and outputting maximum damage. Hence the armor runes and the 6 health potion opening. The moment you start having to level shield/heal the more inefficient and weaker Janna/Sona become in terms of laning presence - you're better off grabbing Taric/Sora as pure babysitters in that sense.
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Just depends on the lane and team comp. Some lane's you should be fine to level W for aggression or getting a kill, other lanes you're kinda forced to play more passively, in which E is the best bet since you won't be doing much ganking.
For what it's worth, I start with Regrowth Pendant and a mana pot, get Philosopher's Stone (to build in to Shureliya's later) and Boots of Tenacity or w/e they're called. I can't not call them Boots of Tenacity.
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I sure hope you mean Ionian Boots of Lucidity, aka CDR Boots. Mercs on Janna sucks in 99% of the cases.
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That's what Shurelya's is for. I find that before that stage of the game you don't really have the mana to worry much about CDR. By the time it matters you can afford Shurelya's. Then again, I've never played a ranked game in my life and you're 1800, but it's simply what I've chosen through experience.
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Shurelya gives like 15. Boots + Kindle gives an instant 25 for cheaper.
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On August 13 2011 02:57 Cedstick wrote:
That's what Shurelya's is for. I find that before that stage of the game you don't really have the mana to worry much about CDR. By the time it matters you can afford Shurelya's. Then again, I've never played a ranked game in my life and you're 1800, but it's simply what I've chosen through experience.
CDR gets better the more you have.
0-9 CDR from masteries
15 from Boots
10-15 from Kindlegem/Shurelya's.
Less than 40 total.
You don't really want to chug blue Elixiers on (support) Janna, so there is no way you're gonna waste any CDR. Janna scales extremely well with CDR and she shoudn't be in the front line. If someone dives past your tank line he's gonna drop his CC on the carries near you.
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Yea, I've just found that during laning phase you can't really make use of it too much since you're already using so much mana. CDR is a late-game thing for me, so with runes, Shurelya's and either Soul Shroud or Fiendish Tomb (usually Soul Shroud since I like to build defensively rather than AP and mana isn't a problem after mid-game) I've got the same amount.
Also, there are plenty of times where getting out of CC just in time has saved my ass. I know you aren't SUPPOSED to be vulnerable, but sometimes that just how it happens.
Keep in mind, I'm playing from a solo-normal perspective, so things are quite a bit different than a team entirely made-up of people with game sense and proper positioning 
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Well... typically Janna can't afford more than one "big" item (2000-2500 gold). Boots, Shurelya's, and one or two small items usually is a about as much as you can get by the time the game is over. Wards and Oracles will eat the rest of your money.
The CDR will come in handy when you fight. That's all that matters.
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Janna so underplayed these days...
I'm running general defensive runes (health/mres/armor) and 0/9/21 masteries.
I like to build FC + wards -> mana manipulator -> philo -> boots1 -> kindlegem -> Soul Shroud -> cdr boots -> Aegis ->Shurelya's -> and if i can afford it (stupid # of assists) whichever of starks/wota that I feel will help out most.
Build is a little wonky but I like it and it gets the job done, I like to take cv (obvious), and heal summoner for use before lvl 6, and to supplement her weak ult heal later on.
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I am at 1800 and I main support/jungle and one of the most played supports is janna for me(70+%wr with about 50+games) and getting the normal fc, 3wards, 2pots is best opening into philo, you dont need boots for a long time because your w gives you really nice speed so I normally rush a hog. after that i may grab boots or an oracles depending on the lane(or maybe just more pink wards for tri bush/dragon). The very nice thing about janna is that you basically dont need boots2 for a very long time imo. If you get farmed Id go for aegis, if not maybe build the shurs. after youre done aegis and shur and the game is still going id just grab chain vest/neg(after oracles+wards) based on what dmg type they have.
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On January 10 2012 18:20 Norada wrote:
I am at 1800 and I main support/jungle and one of the most played supports is janna for me(70+%wr with about 50+games) and getting the normal fc, 3wards, 2pots is best opening into philo, you dont need boots for a long time because your w gives you really nice speed so I normally rush a hog. after that i may grab boots or an oracles depending on the lane(or maybe just more pink wards for tri bush/dragon). The very nice thing about janna is that you basically dont need boots2 for a very long time imo. If you get farmed Id go for aegis, if not maybe build the shurs. after youre done aegis and shur and the game is still going id just grab chain vest/neg(after oracles+wards) based on what dmg type they have.
Yeah i agree on putting off boots, but I really don't like HoG on her that much, it doesn't build into any real utility on her, i think going the mana manip -> soul shroud is worth giving up a little gp10
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On January 10 2012 18:28 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:20 Norada wrote:
I am at 1800 and I main support/jungle and one of the most played supports is janna for me(70+%wr with about 50+games) and getting the normal fc, 3wards, 2pots is best opening into philo, you dont need boots for a long time because your w gives you really nice speed so I normally rush a hog. after that i may grab boots or an oracles depending on the lane(or maybe just more pink wards for tri bush/dragon). The very nice thing about janna is that you basically dont need boots2 for a very long time imo. If you get farmed Id go for aegis, if not maybe build the shurs. after youre done aegis and shur and the game is still going id just grab chain vest/neg(after oracles+wards) based on what dmg type they have. jeah i agree on putting off boots, but I really don't like HoG on her that much, it doesn't build into any real utility on her, i think going the mana manip -> soul shroud is worth giving up a little gp10
Soul shroud is terrible. Rather get an aegis. Also you stated that you start with a mana manipulator. That's really bad, you don't provide any service for your carry except "physical protection". I gotta agree with the guy above you, fc+3wards+2hpots is the best opening by far.
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On January 10 2012 18:43 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:28 gosuMalicE wrote:On January 10 2012 18:20 Norada wrote:
I am at 1800 and I main support/jungle and one of the most played supports is janna for me(70+%wr with about 50+games) and getting the normal fc, 3wards, 2pots is best opening into philo, you dont need boots for a long time because your w gives you really nice speed so I normally rush a hog. after that i may grab boots or an oracles depending on the lane(or maybe just more pink wards for tri bush/dragon). The very nice thing about janna is that you basically dont need boots2 for a very long time imo. If you get farmed Id go for aegis, if not maybe build the shurs. after youre done aegis and shur and the game is still going id just grab chain vest/neg(after oracles+wards) based on what dmg type they have. jeah i agree on putting off boots, but I really don't like HoG on her that much, it doesn't build into any real utility on her, i think going the mana manip -> soul shroud is worth giving up a little gp10 Soul shroud is terrible. Rather get an aegis. Also you stated that you start with a mana manipulator. That's really bad, you don't provide any service for your carry except "physical protection". I gotta agree with the guy above you, fc+3wards+2hpots is the best opening by far.
CDR + Mana regen on Janna is terrible? OK.... Also I don't start with manip, I start with fairie charm + wards, I just build manip it on my first back and grab the fairie charm for philo then too, the mana regen you get from that allows you to throw up lots of knockups and sheilds early game, which I like. I went 1/1/9, 0/4/19, and 7/3/26 (mejais game lol) I'n my last 3 matches with her all wins, I'm not just theorycrafting shit here, also I do get an aegis, right after soul shroud.
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You dont really care about spamming your spells too much in lane though. Your whole goal with janna is to just survive the lane, but if the other team is terrible try for the kills. Janna is the best support out of lane for your team(in most cases) but somewhat weak in lane compared to others.
The hog is just good for gold acceleration so later you can keep up with getting wards/oracles. The hp is nice too. No reason to not get it imo. Unless youre too busy counter warding but most supports barely do this. Also if youre going 7/3/26 on janna youre either 1k elo, playing normals or just got super lucky.
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On January 10 2012 18:52 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:43 Sponkz wrote:On January 10 2012 18:28 gosuMalicE wrote:On January 10 2012 18:20 Norada wrote:
I am at 1800 and I main support/jungle and one of the most played supports is janna for me(70+%wr with about 50+games) and getting the normal fc, 3wards, 2pots is best opening into philo, you dont need boots for a long time because your w gives you really nice speed so I normally rush a hog. after that i may grab boots or an oracles depending on the lane(or maybe just more pink wards for tri bush/dragon). The very nice thing about janna is that you basically dont need boots2 for a very long time imo. If you get farmed Id go for aegis, if not maybe build the shurs. after youre done aegis and shur and the game is still going id just grab chain vest/neg(after oracles+wards) based on what dmg type they have. jeah i agree on putting off boots, but I really don't like HoG on her that much, it doesn't build into any real utility on her, i think going the mana manip -> soul shroud is worth giving up a little gp10 Soul shroud is terrible. Rather get an aegis. Also you stated that you start with a mana manipulator. That's really bad, you don't provide any service for your carry except "physical protection". I gotta agree with the guy above you, fc+3wards+2hpots is the best opening by far. CDR + Mana regen on Janna is terrible? OK.... Also I don't start with manip, I start with fairie charm + wards, I just build manip it on my first back and grab the fairie charm for philo then too, the mana regen you get from that allows you to throw up lots of knockups and sheilds early game, which I like. I went 1/1/9, 0/4/19, and 7/3/26 (mejais game lol) I'n my last 3 matches with her all wins, I'm not just theorycrafting shit here, also I do get an aegis, right after soul shroud.
Soulshroud is still terrible. It costs too much and provides little if nothing for your team.
Philo -> Kindlegem is a better way to get what you desire which is CDR+mana reg. You should have plenty to spam around and it builds into reverie which is a godlike item.
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Hey, just a low ranked scrub here, I've been playing Janna a hell of a lot recently in ranked (18/9 with her overall, she has taken me from 900 ELO to just over 1.1k atm  ) and was looking for some feedback on the build/runes I usually go on her.
I open up faerie charm wards x3 pots x2, usually don't b until I have enough for a philo/HoG and at least one ward if I can, then will get T1 boots and build an aegis/shurelyas depending on opposition team comp. I run 0/3/27 (With three points in armor) on her, and in terms of runes I go gp5 quints, and a mixture of mana/mana regen/armor. Constructive criticism would be much appreciated .
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Normally I would go 0/21/9 on her for masteries. for runes I personally run, gp5 quints, red armor, yellow armor, mr blues. makes you super tanky in lane and for team fights. janna is very nice in soloq(at lower lvls) because most of the time the other team cant pressure you out and late game youre normally better than most supports if played correctly.
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EPT
