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lol I wasn't serious about this 1 cs per minute being ideal, but fact is that in my best Janna games (I had quite a few of those), I tend to have 1 cs per minute.
Obviously you farm when your ally is leaving the lane to shop (or when he's dead, but then you should be ashamed as Janna), or when you have to defend a lane for a while, or when you have to draw minion aggro/reduce minion damage on an ally. Sure you could skillfully NOT lasthit but that's kinda stupid.
CV = no brush juking for ya. U ded.
Against most team compositions you NEED Cleanse to do your job. It's not a huge problem if you die as long as it is for a greater cause, but it's pretty damn important that you get your spells off at the right timings. Any random AoE Silence can fuck you over big time.
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As much as riot is trying to make jungling less mandatory it seems the game is shifting towards 3 solo lanes with a support/roamer and a jungler, lol.
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Since I reached 1800 elo on US thanks to playing Janna, I figured I'd share my wisdom:
Summoners
Clairvoyance + Flash if you can,
Clairvoyance + Cleanse if you must.
You mainly have to watch out for long duration silences. But not just any silences, only those that actually threaten you.
Masteries
0/9/21
defense: 3 armor, 3 mres, 3 SoS
utility: 3 good hands, 1 perseverance, 4 experience, 1 greed, 3 meditation, 3 quickness, 1 flash mastery, 3 CDR, 1 CV mastery, 1 summoner spell mastery
Nothing out of the ordinary here.
Runes
marks: magic penetration
seals: flat armor
glyphs: magic resist per level
quints: 1 flat HP, 2 flat AP
I really only run those quints because I don't have more HP quints or another AP quint. You should be fine with various combinations of flat HP, flat HP5, flat AP, Movespeed.
Skills
W>E>Q>R
1 rank in Q somewhere from 1 to 4
1 rank in R at 6
Q is used for the knockup, not the damage.
W is your bread and butter.
E is nice and all, but W is more important.
R is for the knockback, leveling it higher just makes it cost more mana.
Items
Cookie cutter:
Boots1 + 3 HP pots
Doran's Ring + Philosopher's Stone
CDR Boots
Aegis of the Legion + Kindlegem
Stark's Fervor or Soul Shroud
In real games, have to be very flexible though. Openings I would consider:
Boots1 + 3 HP pots
Boots1 + Ward + HP pot
Boots1 + Pink Ward (against Eve/Twitch if you feel like it)
Regrowth Pendant + HP pot
Doran's Ring
Even some Cloth Armor or Fairy Charm openings might make sense here and there. I don't use those, but who knows...
Your next items should usually Doran's Rings and Philosopher's Stones, adding up to a total of 2. Sometimes 1 total is enough, sometimes you want 3 Doran's Rings. I personally don't like getting more than 1 Philo, I like the HP on Doran's Ring and the AP is quite good early on.
Grab your CDR boots somewhere at this point. No other boots.
After that it's a Ruby Crystal which conveniently builds into both Kindlegem and Aegis.
Starks is REALLY good these days if you have someone with IE. Otherwise a Soul Shroud might be the better choice.
If the game demands it, build defense. AP/AD is usually is not worth getting.
Always have a pink and a couple of green wards. Less than 1 ward per 2 game minutes is not allowed.
Playstyle
Duo bottom and/or roam as the game demands. In champ select, make sure you don't have a second roamer on your team. While Janna can easily lane 1v2 against many duos, it will most likely lose you the game.
For lvl 1 TEAMfights, you want to start with Q. For everything else, W.
I usually stick around our jungler at the start, leash and then try to gank mid. When the enemy goes in to lasthit a ranged minion, W him and chase with your ally. 4 seconds of slow allows for a lot of hits.
When you are laning, harrass with W, use E and Q sparingly. Let your ally take the farm, but if you need to back and are short of 1 or 2 minions for some item, go ahead and take them. Also take lasthits your ally can't or won't get for some reason.
When you are roaming, try to line up your ganks with your jungler. Use your sick movespeed and the even sicker slow from W, hit with Q once you are closer to the enemy.
Trace the enemy jungler/roamer with CV if you can. Use CV to cover an overextended ally, especially top lane or people in the enemy jungle. If there is a fight somewhere on the map, use CV to provide line of sight into brushes (this is HUGE).
E can be used on people who autoattack a lot (bonus points if they have high attack speed or armor penetration), or for the shield. Just spamming it on your ranged DPS isn't optimal, make sure you shield him when he has a chance to actually autoattack for a couple of seconds (instead of run) if you use it for the damage.
R is mostly about the knockback. With the slow on it gone, you usually can't afford to channel it, so leveling it past rank 1 only increases the mana cost. I use it to blow stuff like tanky DPS away, but sometimes I also stop 2-3 enemies from entering the fight. You can mess your R up BIG time, and I often R just a second too late, failing to save an ally. Sometimes you wanna sacrifice an ally (or yourself) and not use R because it would save 2 enemies. You can go all sorts of wrong here...
In teamfights, generally stay near your squishy allies and keep enemies off them with Q W and R.
Cover empty lanes to catch up in farm and levels.
WARDS, goddamnit. WARDS. I won't include a warding guide here, but it's really important for Janna. Keep control over Dragon/Baron with pink wards. Keep control over your jungle by warding the river or your jungle if you are behind. Extend control into the enemy jungle once you take their towers.
Ok, that's about all I can think of right now...
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On February 17 2011 06:51 Slayer91 wrote:
As much as riot is trying to make jungling less mandatory it seems the game is shifting towards 3 solo lanes with a support/roamer and a jungler, lol.
That is the NA meta, but I think going support carry bot in the EU style is a bit stronger, and will gain popularity.
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On April 28 2011 14:32 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 06:51 Slayer91 wrote:
As much as riot is trying to make jungling less mandatory it seems the game is shifting towards 3 solo lanes with a support/roamer and a jungler, lol. That is the NA meta, but I think going support carry bot in the EU style is a bit stronger, and will gain popularity.
It sucks. Trust me, I have done both.
Strong ganker mid + jungler + roamer + solid tank bottom CRUSHES the EU bottom lane. The ranged AD will be too far behind in levels to survive.
The only reason it works on EU is because the enemy team does the same crap.
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Yeah the reason CLG lost some games vs EU teams was not because of the metagame, they actually probably had an advantage there, just irelia OP.
The only problem is there isn't that many tanks that are good at 1v2ing, but then having the threat of a roamer helps a lot. It's almost better having the roamer roam since if it was a 2v2 lane its really easy to harass a tank/roamer. Having the tank a level up and the roamer coming from the bush makes it better.
P.S. Really I would think you should still get that extra 2 points in R. Level 3 R is 600 AoE Heal which is pretty huge.
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Actually here's a rough sketch of (more or less) popular ward spots:
![[image loading]](http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/MpreSSKahna/wards.jpg)
You usually want to create a line of vision across the map, using towers, minions and wards, and shove that line as far into the enemy territory as you safely can.
On April 28 2011 19:23 Slayer91 wrote:
P.S. Really I would think you should still get that extra 2 points in R. Level 3 R is 600 AoE Heal which is pretty huge.
You will literally never be able to channel your R in fights. Instead you can max E earlier for more damage and a stronger shield, and you can grab the lower cooldown on Q.
The only time you want a maxed R is when you win a fight rather decisively without using your ulti and then healing up while pushing. I'm willing to trade a little power in such a case where I most likely am far ahead anyways, and instead increase my teamfight strength to actually GET ahead.
The increased mana cost isn't a non-issue either: My MP5 setup is fairly tight.
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What are people buying on Janna nowadays? I got boots + 2 philo stones to open (and lots of wards + pots), but I didn't really know what sort of eventual "big" items I should be aiming for.
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Aegis + soul shroud usually. Can also get things like banshee's later for added tankiness if the game goes on that long, starks for the aura, etcetc. Whatever the game needs, really.
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i've been getting 1x philo stone at least lately. gp5 always useful and gives the option of -> shurleya's later on
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Cookie cutter:
Boots1 + 3 HP pots
Doran's Ring + Philosopher's Stone
CDR Boots
Aegis of the Legion + Kindlegem
Stark's Fervor or Soul Shroud
Still holds true. That guide is only a few weeks old after all.
Generally, after Kindlegem (and Aegis if nobody else gets it), you're free to build whatever you think is best in the current game.
Don't underestimate Stark's, it's really good. Soul Shroud only if your team actually makes good use of the aura, it's pretty expensive for just yourself. Wit's End can be an option against enemies like Rammus or Alistar. Shurelya's Reverie is great if you have long range initiations on your team so everyone can catch up. Will of the Ancient's if your carry is AP based. Randuin's Omen or Frozen Heart against melee autoattackers. Sometimes you need a Quicksilver Sash. Executioner's Calling against heavy regen/healing or to help break spell shields. Abyssal Scepter can be good. If you want an additional slow, I'd personally go Mallet over Rylais: Longer duration, W slows enough by itself and Q only gets the 15% on a long cooldown.
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Dear spines,
it really needed Dreamhack for me to understand how fucking great u can use janna. I kinda felt solid before that, but knowing when to use flash ult/w is fucking huge, never thought about that before.
Also for openings, I feel that faerie charm + 3 wards + pots is slightly superior to boots openings if you dont want to roam from lvl 2-3 on. The extra wards make you much more versatile at low levels than boots would.
(Afraid of counterjungling? Np, u can cover entrances. Want early map coverage to shut down strong gankers? Np, u has enough wards for that.) ... Against strong, ganky junglers I'd really recommend the wards opening, against farming ones you can roll with boots.
Loco once posted that botlane is about which side can free up their support to roam first and I'd say that's jannas biggest strength. The second your carry gets his first kill / forces the other carry to go b you can roll the map with oracle for at least one round to clear all the ward crap. If you can do that, it's huge imo. However, don't risk your carry getting dived/instagibbed for it.
Why do you get the Dring?
I still feel that 2-3 gold items > dring if you can afford them. Oracle somewhere after 1-2 gold items.
Obviously you should aim for wota/starks depending on your teamcomp, both add so much to your team.
Also, where SO MANY SUPPORTS FUCK UP: Your cv is the best protection against any sort of strong counterjungling. Know common routes for junglers like Nunu/Shaco especially. Know their alternatives. Know how they respond when they get CV'd in the middle of an act. The goal of strong CVs is exactly one thing: Use your knowledge to be 100% certain that the enemy jungle HAS to be at one out of two spots. CV one of them. Call out where he has to be if he's not there. Once you get used to it, it get's really easy.
You should aim to CV the enemy jungle precisly for the first 2 spawns of his blue. Also make sure to make your team aware of fuckups in the enemy junglers pattern. e.g. him ganking on the other side of the map 10s before his blue spawns while your jungler is close to it.
In case you feel something is cheesy, call it out right now and make your team aware. Especially against early gankers them NOT having cleared a camp they should have done by now means they're invading your jungle, ganking very early or they plain suck. Never assume the last.
Example #1: You have Amu vs Nunu.
You know:
-Nunu started boots/ward
-He went big wolf -> blue.
-Since ur pro you warded your wraiths to prevent oddoneguide style.
-> CV his red/wraiths ---> If he's not there, he's at your golems/red OR ganking at lvl 2.
-> CV your golems/path towards lane ---> If he's not there he's doing his jungle OR ganking at lvl 2.
Example #2: You have Rammus vs Shaco
You know: Shaco started red.
You have to check: Did he do his small golems (farming route) or did he ignore golems and start red (usually early ganky route)
Each route requires slightly different CVs and has slightly different timings. The first aims to gank a lane after blue, the second aims to gank your jungler at his wraiths. Being accurate for those things is a huge part of playing a solid support.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 21 2011 16:39 r.Evo wrote:
Why do you get the Dring?
I still feel that 2-3 gold items > dring if you can afford them. Oracle somewhere after 1-2 gold items.
Personally I can't justify more than 1 gold/10 item per game on Janna.
Doran's Rings give you about 860 gold worth of stats for 475 gold. This means that it takes a Heart of Gold something around 10 minutes to match the cost-effectiveness of a Doran's Ring (Philo Stone obviously becomes cost-effective faster, but the stats of multiple Philos are pretty unnecessary for Janna, especially since she doesn't have an enormous mana demand like Sona's that needs multiple Philos to cover).
With that long of time to break even, and with other priority buys such as wards/oracles/aura items, it is unlikely that your latter few gold/10 items will break even in good time. Suppose you have a 35 minute game (about average game length). With normal gold income of ~100 gold per minute, you can get your first g/10 item before 10 minutes (interspersed with wards and getting boots), and, with some supplemental gold from assists/dragon, probably a 2nd by 15. The first one will generate gold for a long enough time to be cost-effective for certain. The second one, however, spends 10 minutes catching up to DRing cost-effectiveness, and spends the next 10 generating gold, at which point, the game is about ended. If you were delayed (i.e. no kills/assists in lane, had to spend money on early oracles for someone like Eve/Shaco, etc.), then the gold item spends less time generating gold than it does just trying to catch up to DRings.
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^ Solid argument, gonna stick with 1 philo. Actually with the upcoming unique g/10 changes it's even more relevant.
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On June 21 2011 17:01 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 16:39 r.Evo wrote:
Why do you get the Dring?
I still feel that 2-3 gold items > dring if you can afford them. Oracle somewhere after 1-2 gold items.
Personally I can't justify more than 1 gold/10 item per game on Janna. Doran's Rings give you about 860 gold worth of stats for 475 gold. This means that it takes a Heart of Gold something around 10 minutes to match the cost-effectiveness of a Doran's Ring (Philo Stone obviously becomes cost-effective faster, but the stats of multiple Philos are pretty unnecessary for Janna, especially since she doesn't have an enormous mana demand like Sona's that needs multiple Philos to cover). With that long of time to break even, and with other priority buys such as wards/oracles/aura items, it is unlikely that your latter few gold/10 items will break even in good time. Suppose you have a 35 minute game (about average game length). With normal gold income of ~100 gold per minute, you can get your first g/10 item before 10 minutes (interspersed with wards and getting boots), and, with some supplemental gold from assists/dragon, probably a 2nd by 15. The first one will generate gold for a long enough time to be cost-effective for certain. The second one, however, spends 10 minutes catching up to DRing cost-effectiveness, and spends the next 10 generating gold, at which point, the game is about ended. If you were delayed (i.e. no kills/assists in lane, had to spend money on early oracles for someone like Eve/Shaco, etc.), then the gold item spends less time generating gold than it does just trying to catch up to DRings.
I think the HoG is almost always superior to the Dorans Ring.
Once you have the first Philostone you have all the manaregen you could ever want. 250 health from HoG over 100 health from Dring is huge. The additional AP is cute but not as huge as 150 health more.
While the HoG is not "cost-efficient" in terms of paying for itself it gives two things: Health vs burst damage and additonal gold. The ability to replenish a lost oracle/even more wards/quicker big stuff like wota/starks is huge imho. Also the more health you have, the more is your philostone worth.
Looking at the pure numbers and thinking "Dring has better numbers" isn't the right approach here I'd say. I'm not entirely sure on the 3rd gold item, but 2 is definitly the way to go.
Builds like Philo, boots/oracle -> 2x HoG -> kindlegem are sooo durable.
I should probably add that I hate getting aegis on janna (id rather see it on stuff like amu/nunu/etc.) and that I run gold / 10 quints.
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HoG is bad. Really bad. And Getting more than 2 gold/10 items on a support is nonsense. You can't afford more than that. Even 2 gold/10 items stretches it.
Notice that Philo is quite the exception if you need the stats because it's base stats are worth more than 800. Other gold/10 items have negative base stat efficiency.
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On June 21 2011 18:14 spinesheath wrote:
HoG is bad. Really bad. And Getting more than 2 gold/10 items on a support is nonsense. You can't afford more than that. Even 2 gold/10 items stretches it.
Notice that Philo is quite the exception if you need the stats because it's base stats are worth more than 800. Other gold/10 items have negative base stat efficiency.
I know you will already hate me for pulling that card, however during Dreamhack the only support not building gold items was Doublelift. (He stacked DRings). Everyone else (and I mean everyone) built 2+ on every single support.
Mellisans (fnatic) standard was Philo -> HoG, most of the time before boots.
He usually turned the Philo into Shurelyas later on and got an Aegis whenever he could.
kujaa (aAa) was the support player with the most HoGs, up to 3 after his initial philo (still on T1 boots at times)
Elementz (Sona) got 2 Philos, 1 HoG
I think disregarding Mellisans approach to Janna especially (he played her like a beast) is a bad idea.
His standard was opening faerie + wards/pots, quick Philo -> Oracle/HoG -> Boots -> T2 Boots -> Aegis/Kindlegem/Shurelyas.
I'd say two should be the standard, 3 is stretching it.
Why do you despise HoG so much? IF you can afford it while doing your oracle/ward duty (which should be in 90%+ of all games unless you explode with that oracle all the time) it's great and I'd totally neglect T2 boots for it, especially on Janna cuz of her W.
Edit: For those interested, Mellisan ran that build on pretty much every support he played, while kujaa switched it up a lot. However, especially kujaa loves HoGs, even on champs like Soraka or Sona where you might argue Kages/Philos thrown in are a lot better than stacking HoGs.
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Well we should also consider that most of the games lasted 40+ minutes if the game was even somewhat close because of how good the teams were at defending. Of course more than one g/10 item would be good in that situation. If the game became one-sided then item builds would be pointless and the team that's ahead will win in a dominating fashion.
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Spine's strat is focused on normal ranked games that at his elo generally last 20-25 mins so gold/10 isn't as useful. In Dreamhack the teams generally played a lot safer than would happen in ranked, and so games lasted longer as they were mainly just farmfests and trying to control buffs. Real 5 games vs solo q is a lot different for the support. You need to realize that. Rarely were there many kills at all in the dreamhack games where the support was actually involved until mid-lategame teamfights 20+ mins in. So gold/10 were helpful here because the added bonus from things like aegis/shurelya's, etc were often not needed right away by the support until teamfights much later. They could just get the gold/10 to buy wards + oracles by the time the team needed to go around as 5 and sometimes something extra like a kindlegem.
In most real games you shouldn't go above 2 gold/10 though on supports. It's just too much of an investment when you're getting no farm to begin with and you'll get your 3rd too late.
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What we also saw in the DH games: Supports barely ever got any assists before the teamfights started. That led to them grabbing the 2nd gold/10 as late as 18-20 minutes into the game. If they grabbed a 3rd one, they hardly had a chance to grab another item. At this point a Kindlegem beats a HoG easily. Similar cost, similar HP, but 10% CDR which is the only stat that really improves Janna's teamfight presence.
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EPT
