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On November 04 2010 08:52 Navi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 08:37 UniversalSnip wrote:On November 04 2010 08:34 TieN.nS) wrote:
Rageblade after Ghostblade is bad. I don't care to do the math but I'm pretty sure just based on her passive Rageblade is a much bigger item. Tried it both ways, don't agree. Kayles dps with rageblade and zerks is superior in a teamfight lasting longer than 8 seconds (I think it might be better than ghostblade if comparing full stack rb and youmuu active) and i try to start a teamfight as kayle as soon as I get those two items. In general it's kayles core item because her skills give her survivability throughout a teamfight, not just the few seconds her ult is up; being able to dish out full grb stacks with ur zerks throughout a teamfight that makes kayle her own class of hard to take down ranged carry
The windup on rageblade is actually pretty significant, and having a free ghost every sixty seconds is riddddddddddddiculous.
I feel like I'm scaling much better when I go ghostblade first.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2010 09:52 UniversalSnip wrote:
The windup on rageblade is actually pretty significant, and having a free ghost every sixty seconds is riddddddddddddiculous.
I feel like I'm scaling much better when I go ghostblade first.
Doesn't blue elixir + golem buff let you keep Rageblade permanently wound up with W and E?
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The huge amount of stats that rageblade gives for it's cost is just too much to pass up.
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On November 04 2010 09:55 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 09:52 UniversalSnip wrote:
The windup on rageblade is actually pretty significant, and having a free ghost every sixty seconds is riddddddddddddiculous.
I feel like I'm scaling much better when I go ghostblade first. Doesn't blue elixir + golem buff let you keep Rageblade permanently wound up with W and E?
Don't think I'd buy blue elixer right after my first item lol
red, sure, not blue
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2010 10:36 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 09:55 TheYango wrote:On November 04 2010 09:52 UniversalSnip wrote:
The windup on rageblade is actually pretty significant, and having a free ghost every sixty seconds is riddddddddddddiculous.
I feel like I'm scaling much better when I go ghostblade first. Doesn't blue elixir + golem buff let you keep Rageblade permanently wound up with W and E? Don't think I'd buy blue elixer right after my first item lol red, sure, not blue
Well yeah, but golem without blue should still let you keep it wound up for a reasonable length of time.
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If you play safe or your team is good at keeping people alive then I'd suggest a mejai's on her. It can really buff up her damage.
And why wouldn't Kayle benefit from extra gold? GA, Zhonya's, several other items, or even just more cash flow for the triple pot pump make her that much more of a terror.
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On November 04 2010 12:01 Scamp wrote:
If you play safe or your team is good at keeping people alive then I'd suggest a mejai's on her. It can really buff up her damage.
And why wouldn't Kayle benefit from extra gold? GA, Zhonya's, several other items, or even just more cash flow for the triple pot pump make her that much more of a terror.
Kayle with a Zhonya's isnt as scary as lets say... Twitch with an extra Bloodthirster, or MF with IE...
Kayle has this period of does nothing, then a very explosive midgame that really isn't made any better by increased itemization and end game items.
She's just as powerful with 4 items as she is with 6 so it doesnt make sense to get more (over a champion that could benefit more from it).
Basically red buff kayle with a rageblade kills everything, so theres no reason to get more.
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That's not really the point. You can hold back and let someone else take the kill if you're ganking but in every other situation you just kill and move on to the next target. So you get all this extra money.
Saying she's just as powerful with 4 items as she is with 6 is just silly. Either she'll do more damage or she'll live longer. It's not like you have the option to give money to your teammates, so you're not taking anything away from your teammates.
In fact, I don't get the general logic at all. There's ALWAYS a reason to get more!
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2010 12:46 Scamp wrote:
That's not really the point. You can hold back and let someone else take the kill if you're ganking but in every other situation you just kill and move on to the next target. So you get all this extra money.
Saying she's just as powerful with 4 items as she is with 6 is just silly. Either she'll do more damage or she'll live longer. It's not like you have the option to give money to your teammates, so you're not taking anything away from your teammates.
In fact, I don't get the general logic at all. There's ALWAYS a reason to get more!
Well I think the point is that if you're choosing between re-applying elixirs and saving for the next items, there are going to be a bunch of cases where elixiring now is better, because it's better to make your midgame more explosive than to try and build for the late game (where the items won't make much of a difference).
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I feel like it takes a while to get those Rageblade stacks up when fighting. It's like I have to unnecessarily need to use a heal to get my stacks faster. I tried LW after rageblade and it worked out pretty well. In the future I believe I'd get either LW or Malady depending on my team composition and which form of damage is needed more.
D-ring + heal pot > boots1 and pickaxe (for agressive play) or blasting wand (defensive) > Rageblade and Green and Red (green takes priority?) > LW/Malady/Youmous/Negatron Cloak/Chainmail
Arpen reds, mp5/l yellows, flat cdr blues, ms quints.
Would AD reds/quints be better now for the double dip into AP?
ms quints probably aren't necessary but I can't take them off anymore, I can't live at sub 330 ms.
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My personal Kayle build lately is...
9/0/21
Movement Speed Quints/Attack Speed Quints
Attack Speed Marks
MP5/lvl seals
Attack Speed Glyphs
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I don't have a skill build for Kayle, I kind of take it as it goes in lane, sometimes I want Q sometimes I want W, usually I want E too farm as well as I can, and that's actually why I like movespeed quints I find it lets me farm better, but it might just be my mind playing with me :D.. I will get W earlier if I am getting harassed, I'll take W and Q at least once each before level 6
Ghost + Cleanse
for me.. R>E>Q>W
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Doran's ring + Health Pot
Boots + Rageblade item... if you got sent back early or are struggling, Dorans Ring #2 is fine, lets you heal yourself more since you have mana coming in constantly. I don't really think the three D-Ring opening is ever worth it, don't slow down that rageblade
Guinsoo's Rageblade + berserker boots
then I have been getting exclusively Yoummos(sp?) Ghostblade
for those that don't know Ghostblade is absolutely amazing on Kayle, I'm not really sure what the exact stat bonuses are compared to other items, but the active is extremely powerful, as well as the armor penetration and cooldown. The crit chance and damage are really just icing on the cake for me.
then I get Guardian Angel, and then I wish I could gift my money to others(probably extremely op) or wish the game was over... :D, however there are times where I have gotten Madred's Bloodrazor when the other team is mostly tanks/high hp guys, and there have been times where I have gotten Starks
I completely avoid nashoor's tooth now, I don't like that item very much anymore... I used to love the mana regen from it, and now I wonder why I needed so much mana regen on Kayle.. I am not a big fan of infinity edge builds or madreds razor builds.. they are very expensive to get after rageblade(which I absolutely need first), and I feel the building up to them slows down my effectiveness. If I want to farm to 10000 gold then fight, I wouldn't be playing Kayle... Ghostblade just gives me this huge advantage all of a sudden, and extends my time of domination from not just red + ghostblade, too the rest of the game until it gets to extremely late game.
Remember after getting rageblade that spending 300-600 somewhere on elixirs everytime you come home is an amazing idea, especially if you will team fight. Some people just advocate 3 elixirs 24/7, but feel out the game, if there aren't many team fights and your not forcing them(which imo I don't mind the free towers, just go push them down, they actually need to send 3+ people usually to push you back/kill you if you have Red buff + cleanse and your ult).. late game just keep the 3 elixirs up, you don't really need to rush GA, those 3 elixirs usually just wreck teams so keep in mind if your going to be fighting. If you are just taking on small groups 1-3 people and not all out team fighting, you don't need much more than red / green.
There is no real complexity to Kayle, she is one of the easiest heroes to play effectively, and personally the easiest for me, just my little take on this fine hero :D, I love how.... aggressive you can be with her, along with how powerful you are.. yet you can also heal, and use your ultimate. When random scrubs suggest I build tanky, or as a support, I refer to the fact that I am supporting our team by killing off their team every chance I get.
Also as for berserker boots, there are rare cases I grab the merc treads.. they are also useful, but it just kind of depends on the other team, judge for yourself, experiment, see what works for you!
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There is no real complexity to Kayle, she is one of the easiest heroes to play effectively
Pretty much this. It seems to me like there's only one way to go with Kayle. And that's by buying QRB, Nashors, and Hextech.
I always level E up first when I play her. Don't know why you'd level up Q first since it takes so much mana. Last hitting minions with E is easy and costs less mana. I also take attack speed runes on her though.
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I don't like hextech or nashor's. Nashor's because you get a bunch of mediocre stats + a recurve bow for 2000 more gold than a recurve bow, and hextech because it just isn't good. I know it's efficient on paper but I've tried it many times on both kayle and jax and it basically does nothing.
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I find the CDR and 55 AP to be pretty useful on her, personally. I dunno, I'm quite a fan of that item.
Hextech I grab because well, it's a hybrid item and I play Kayle as Hybrid lol, same thing with GRB.
But to each their own!
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Korean-style Kayle (and the one that's used most often) is GRB -> IE -> LW, with triple-pot timing as you go. Have to make the triple pots count, though.
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United States8474 Posts
Just spamming elixirs because you can is really dumb, and a huge waste of money, and I'd assume has to do with the 'feeling' that she doesn't scale as well into late game. She has other issues(psuedo-range, ult is hardly a free escape if facing multiple disables) that keep her from being as scary as the top tier carries right now, but scaling is not one of them.
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Am I the only one who run Might marks on her?
Might marks
Mp5/18 Seals
CDR Blues
HP quints - I should change those
0/9/21
Doran(s)
GRB
Malady
Ghostblade
IE
Cleanse/Ghost
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2010 16:18 Pandonetho wrote:
I find the CDR and 55 AP to be pretty useful on her, personally. I dunno, I'm quite a fan of that item.
Hextech I grab because well, it's a hybrid item and I play Kayle as Hybrid lol, same thing with GRB.
But to each their own!
The CDR tends to be irrelevant if you can grab blue buff and are triple-potting effectively. Even if you can't get blue buff, Ghostblade + Blue Elixir + Runes/Masteries caps you, so why do you need the 10% more CDR?
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On November 04 2010 20:24 red_ wrote:
Just spamming elixirs because you can is really dumb, and a huge waste of money, and I'd assume has to do with the 'feeling' that she doesn't scale as well into late game. She has other issues(psuedo-range, ult is hardly a free escape if facing multiple disables) that keep her from being as scary as the top tier carries right now, but scaling is not one of them.
It's more that you do it once to tilt the game in your favor... and people start doing it constantly to try to rush a game end instead of working up the advantage.
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currently running:
flat HP/ArPen quints
ArPen red
mp5/lvl yellow
AP/lvl blue
Did the math on a spreadsheet before, and I'm 100% sure that GRB + ghostblade (active) gives about as much dps as GRB+IE or GRB+MBR and noticeably more than GRB+nashor. of course, nashor gives CDR and mana regen, so it's not without it's uses. zhonya is terrible for dps. GRB + ghostblade + triple pot gives by far more dps than any other itemization for close to the same amount of gold.
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EPT
