EPTI don't really like building bruiser on jungle Kayle. Only bruisers with a lot of built-in tankiness tend to do well with jungle levels of farm, and Kayle doesn't fit that bill. If I get fed I love going Wriggle's -> Black Cleaver to carry the mid-game. Otherwise I'll switch more into a support role.
[Champion] Kayle - Page 13
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
I don't really like building bruiser on jungle Kayle. Only bruisers with a lot of built-in tankiness tend to do well with jungle levels of farm, and Kayle doesn't fit that bill. If I get fed I love going Wriggle's -> Black Cleaver to carry the mid-game. Otherwise I'll switch more into a support role. | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
Even with just wits + vamp + boots1 you're still a big threat, and I don't see how you farm up 1650 for bfs with jungle levels of farm. imho best part of my build (wits/cdr boots/zekes) is that everything is so cheap - the most expensive part is 1050 for recurve bow. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On April 20 2012 00:10 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: you are crazy because range/splash E is what makes her The Bawsss. The 'melee' was in quotes because Kayle's E used to give her the range(like it always has) but her attacks were still categorized as melee, which meant they applied melee red buff(is there still a distinction? I should know better...), extended Ghostblade duration, etc. I miss that Kayle =[[ | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On April 20 2012 00:10 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: you are crazy because range/splash E is what makes her The Bawsss. Jungle kayle is pretty nice, it clears really fast, has a heal and a nuke. very safe jungling and fast, u can go wolf->blue->wraith->red no problem lol. build wriggle, cd reduction boots, forgot item name but 25% cd reduction 50% atk speed 65 AP item, malady, phage into trinity, and at that point you hit like a truck and hit so ridiculously fast that it's not even funny. Tower goes down faster than fed fiora focusing down a tower. Nashor's tooth is the name you're looking for, and it's a bad item. Malady is good for an early game dps item. You're never going to finish TF from the jungle unless you're super fed and your build is actually pretty bad against towers as far as builds go. On April 20 2012 00:32 greggy wrote: Thoughts on rageblade: it's a bit like shurelias in that it's not really good early as first item because components are so expensive, but is pretty good luxury item if you're getting fed and need more damage. If you can keep the stacks up your sustained fighting power is amazing. I usually get it after wits and zekes. Rageblade is technically alright if you can keep the stacks up, but Kayle is actually worse at that nowadays and you need 6 or more stacks to get comparable benefit as you would from other items. Not having 8 stacks means your Q doesn't do much damage and you have less attack speed for the time when Q's bonus damage is in effect. Since poke dances are so common nowadays I'd rather have something that didn't backload my damage before every team fight. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On April 20 2012 00:54 greggy wrote: I don't see the point of getting wriggles except for having some dragon pressure because you don't clear that much faster with it than without. Kayle's like mundo in that she clears small camps absurdly fast and that's where her strength lies. Even with just wits + vamp + boots1 you're still a big threat, and I don't see how you farm up 1650 for bfs with jungle levels of farm. imho best part of my build (wits/cdr boots/zekes) is that everything is so cheap - the most expensive part is 1050 for recurve bow. Wriggle's is just an all around great item. Dragon pressure, sustain, defense, offense, free wards. Mundo often skips Wriggle's not because he clears small camps fast but because he already has Q and E for taking down Dragon/buffs. You farm up B.F. Sword by ganking successfully, which is why I specifically noted I like it when I'm doing well. Otherwise I'll shift toward a supporting role. | ||
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
On April 20 2012 02:08 Seuss wrote: Wriggle's is just an all around great item. Dragon pressure, sustain, defense, offense, free wards. Mundo often skips Wriggle's not because he clears small camps fast but because he already has Q and E for taking down Dragon/buffs. You farm up B.F. Sword by ganking successfully, which is why I specifically noted I like it when I'm doing well. Otherwise I'll shift toward a supporting role. I know wriggles is great but I just can't justify spending 1150 on basically a free ward every 3 minutes. You can spend that (well, a bit more) on kindlegem + dagger and improve your defense and offense in that way while gaining stats which are far more beneficial to you. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On April 20 2012 03:05 nosliw wrote: What kind of mastery to people run on her? I do a 21/9/0 with mix penetration in offense. When I go top I like to take something like this. http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-3-0-0-4-4-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-3-2-4-0-2-1-0-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 The reason why I take tough skin and indomitable is because Kayle is capable of being a huge lane bully early on because she puts out an absurd amount of damage. You are often able to just completely shut out someone by chunking their health down and zone them out, but during this process you take a lot of aggro and these two masteries block out a shit ton of damage. You do so much damage just by taking the dual penetrations in the offensive tree, and the lower defensive masteries just help out too much in the early game when you're laning up top. It allows you to make full use of your early game laning power so I really prefer to put this many points in defense rather than 21 in offense. I guess you could go something like this http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-3-0-0-4-4-0-0-1-1-0-0-2-0-3-0-0-0-0-2-2-4-0-2-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 Which is more similar to what Rincent advocates in his new solomid guide (although he takes the ad+crit rather than the cdr+mpen). | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
She dominates dominion hard though, thats someting :D | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On April 20 2012 04:37 Capped wrote: Is she a viable support with her heal buff now? I loved kayle on my drift to level 30, i want her in ranked in my main role :< I'd say no. She really, really needs levels(especially if you're leveling W primarily, even if you stop at 3 where it starts to become less about sustain and more about 'burst heal' with the mana cost/hp healed) to be any sort of threat. If you play her as support, your damage will stop mattering quite early, and that's a pretty big deal because while her other skills have utility(Q damage amp and slow, W speed, Ult obvious), their utility is still weak compared to real supports. You're also going to be stuck on that super short duration lvl 1 ult for awhile as well(6->11 usually quite a long gap because full team fights aren't happening, but you're leaving lane to go do stuff more often). | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On April 20 2012 05:24 koreasilver wrote: Not to mention that the damage amplification on Q only amplifies Kayle's damage on the target. Honestly Kayle is a shitty support because other champions do what she does better in the support position. On top of all of that, being that 'damage' is part of what she would bring, even in support, she's not going to have any sort of build to support staying alive for anything other than hitting the absolute closest target with her E(w/e tank that is charging your carry), and there's no way you're ulting yourself like you would if you were carry Kayle. It's just a bad option. The only time she had a kit suitable to being a support was oddly enough when she was just straight up the strongest carry in the game, so obviously nobody built her as support then(she could've gotten away going GRB+boots+spam wards from then on, with a fantastic base heal and scaling on her old W, and the super long duration ult). | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
Marks: Attack speed Seals: Armor Glyphs: Scaling MR Quints: Movespeed or flat AD or AS, whatever you feel like really. I prefer move speed. Always fast never not fast Masteries: I either go 21/9/0 or 14/16/0. You want both the penetration masteries in offense. I run smite/ghost. Open either cloth5 or boots3 depending on your team comp and enemy mid lane. I highly highly recommend ganking at lvl2 ASAP, because your level 2 ganks are TERRIFYING. Something like 90% of the time you'll force the enemy to burn flash, and if your lane teammate lands CC you probably get first blood. My jungle path is like wolves->blue->gank, then wraiths->golems, gank, recall. I think grabbing one early d-blade isn't a bad idea if you want a tidbit extra health. Wriggles is optional on Kayle honestly. You don't need it to clear. It's a nice item to have but honestly it's not really necessary. Zerker greaves every time! Attack speed best speed! Also they're sick cheap. I then rush rageblade, starting with pickaxe, and then zeal->phage->triforce. After that you can really build whatever. I've never considered rushing a recurve bow but it might be worth experimenting with. You are an extremely aggressive ganking jungler. You are not a sit in the jungle and farm all day jungler. You *need* kills/assists. Gank early and often. I like to gank mid at lvl2, run the opposite direction into jungle, pop ghost and come around the wall for another run. Be aggressive. Your Q is a 35% slow with a 4 second duration. That's absurd. Don't both putting any more points into Q until end game though. It has a 1:1 ratio on both AP and AD, and the slow doesn't increase at all with more levels, so don't bother. It's really just to slow folks down. Your whoosh whooshing is what kills people. Using your ult intelligently is one of the most important aspects of playing Kayle. Way too many people try to use it as a super clutch "save that guy who's about to die" move. Often that person is running for their life anyway, and all too often they pop flash out of a fight right as you ult them and it ends up being totally wasted. Ult your important person right when they're about to take a lot of damage. When ganking at lvl6, feel free to dive towers. Take one turret hit, and then ult yourself immediately before the 2nd hits. You can block 2 tower hits while you and your teammate butcher someone who thinks he's safe. Fun fun fun! | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
Also I don't see why you don't have wits anywhere in your build, it's probably best item on kayle really. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On April 20 2012 00:46 Seuss wrote: That's too many items to count on as a jungler. Pretty much anyone will hit like a truck with items worth 11k gold. I don't really like building bruiser on jungle Kayle. Only bruisers with a lot of built-in tankiness tend to do well with jungle levels of farm, and Kayle doesn't fit that bill. If I get fed I love going Wriggle's -> Black Cleaver to carry the mid-game. Otherwise I'll switch more into a support role. I'm pretty sure kayle has the highest 10 second damage of any champion. Midgame her damage is comparable to bruisers. E at rank 5 adds 60+.4*Autodamage. If you build her AD carry then once she's used her ult to save an ally caught by a blitz hook, she has no way to prevent assasins or burst mages from one shotting her. She doesn't have a jump like tristana does. That's why I like to build her like a bruiser; so she can stay in the front lines where she can dish out constant damage. Build her AD carry and she'll constantly have to run around and reserve her ult from allies giving up one of her biggest strengths. The guides on solomid have a lot of major flaws in my opinion. 15/15 masteries and cdr runes hurt your damage output and tankiness. If you're doing AD carry kayle then you need the cdr otherwise you're just twiddling your thumbs or calling six second timeouts all the time, but you're again gimping your damage. Rincent and the other guide both max Q first giving up the great strength of her E at low levels and gaining no utility at all. Thresholden at least maxes it by 12, but I think it's a bit too late. Rincent doesn't realize that infinity edge and Pdancer are one item. You either get Pdancer after your IE or you never get IE at all. Rincent puts 6 points into W and 4 into E (what?) Wriggles isn't just for dragon and triforce isn't worthless. Wriggles lets jungle kayle jungle without constantly spamming W and hogging all the blues. She has a hard time on big camps, especially when mid is deaf and blind and can't hear your 50 pings. (just take the blue if they're like that). It also improves her already fast clear speeds on small and big camps leading to more ganks, experience, and gold. In team fights the armor lets her keep attacking when her E turns off if you build bruiser kayle. I think it's actually more necessary on kayle (for the sustain) than it is on WW. Triforce's best two components on kayle are the phage and zeal. It can be a good first big offensive item as it provides AD, crit chance, and Aspd as well as some AP (not terrible I guess). The passives really help her out a lot. "But she has a constant slow on her Q D:". Merc treads. Just get two slows. They even stack. Late game triforce is not cost efficient(if you ignore mana and AP) but it is slot efficient, raising dps by just slightly less than a pdancer once you already have one pdancer and an IE. Rincent goes 19/11 in his masteries, taking 6*5*16=480 (27 caster minion damage, 33 armor) damage to freeze lane but reducing damage by 60... Building tiamat as core in thresholden's guide on kayle to utilize her splash damage is a good idea in theory but you never hit two champion targets with tiamat in practice. Anyways that's my 78 cents. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
But you guys are making me think I'm being a supernoob for not getting IE/PD, and wits end. Wits I'll certainly try out soon. IE/PD just seems like way too much to farm in the jungle. | ||
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Nafaltar
Germany302 Posts
and just delays them to much if you are getting them. But in the jungle you are better of just following it up with aura items imho and being more supporty instead, so rageblade is a fine choice there imho. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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