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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: There are no new macro opportunities though, they've basically straight nerfed/removed them so i take it nobody will be outmacro'ing you in the future then? | ||
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:37 ejozl wrote: I dno I'm pretty torn. On one hand I love players like Maru, Parting, Life a lot more than Innovation, Rain and SoO, but on the other hand if everyone plays like Maru, Parting and Life are these players then still special? Even if everyone played like Maru, Parting and Life of yesterday, the Maru, Parting, and Life of the future would just play even better than before with more effective APM. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:47 mishimaBeef wrote: so i take it nobody will be outmacro'ing you in the future then? I don't see how zergs can really outmacro other zergs if they all have the same inject timings. Terrans can still outmacro because depots aren't automated. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:47 mishimaBeef wrote: so i take it nobody will be outmacro'ing you in the future then? the gap between me and a pro player will be significantly reduced. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
more action, less sim city, more diversity in tactics and composition, more diverse playstyles | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
also can someone explain the Alt Control groups? | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:51 mishimaBeef wrote: macro will just change... the way you view it, the way it works... it will be more about position on the map with respect to resources... and of course multitasking is never something that will be gone... more action, less sim city, more diversity in tactics and composition, more diverse playstyles I still have no clue where you're getting this from. Nothing has been done to encourage this. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:51 mishimaBeef wrote: macro will just change... the way you view it, the way it works... it will be more about position on the map with respect to resources... and of course multitasking is never something that will be gone... more action, less sim city, more diversity in tactics and composition, more diverse playstyles Why do you claim that macro will simply change? Position on the map with respect to resources isn't macro. Macro is efficient production of units and upgrades and workers. They are taking away a skill sink of sorts in this area and replacing it with nothing. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:48 Caihead wrote: Even if everyone played like Maru, Parting and Life of yesterday, the Maru, Parting, and Life of the future would just play even better than before with more effective APM. Remember how people were saying that Gumiho would be crazy good with boosted medivacs? Then everyone else became Gumiho. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
if it were so easy people would open the editor and make the game better, few have dared | ||
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TelecoM
United States10682 Posts
With no macro mechanics for any race, it will also theoretically slow down the pace of the game, which most people are already complaining about. With no macro mechanics it will leave more room open for skill, the engagements / deathballs will be toned down, engagements will take longer as players will be safer, because it takes longer to macro. With no macro mechanics the hypeness and the climax of each match in starcraft 2 will be more epic, as it will remove the fast paced gimmicky aspect, and introduce straightforward skill. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:56 GGzerG wrote: with no macro mechanics StarCraft 2 becomes a lot more like BroodWar in terms of mechanics. With no macro mechanics for any race, it will also theoretically slow down the pace of the game, which most people are already complaining about. With no macro mechanics it will leave more room open for skill, the engagements / deathballs will be toned down, engagements will take longer as players will be safer, because it takes longer to macro. With no macro mechanics the hypeness and the climax of each match in starcraft 2 will be more epic, as it will remove the fast paced gimmicky aspect, and introduce straightforward skill. Remember Broodwar had plenty of unnecessary macro APM sinks too, they just weren't added intentionally. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:54 Ej_ wrote: Remember how people were saying that Gumiho would be crazy good with boosted medivacs? Then everyone else became Gumiho. Not sure what you are trying to say there, given a choice of watching two Gumihos playing competitively against each other and a choice of watching Gumiho stomping someone with boosted medivacs what would you choose? | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On August 01 2015 09:04 Caihead wrote: Not sure what you are trying to say there, given a choice of watching two Gumihos playing competitively against each other and a choice of watching Gumiho stomping someone with boosted medivacs what would you choose? Gumiho was good at dropping. They made dropping easier and then his skill at dropping became irrelevant. His dropping skill was effectively removed from the game. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:53 shin_toss wrote: 16 secs? wtf. How u gonna defend other bases. so it should have warpgates? also after the 16sec warp in + the WG cooldown? or you can warp in again after 16 secs? also can someone explain the Alt Control groups? Protoss already put warpgates at their wall-offs / thirds in vZ so that's not an issue at all. This would however encourage more strategic WG placement in PvT and PvP, I hardly see how that's a bad thing. Terrans already sim-city their production for unit pathing and this just encourages it for Protoss rather than enforce it. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:37 ejozl wrote: I dno I'm pretty torn. On one hand I love players like Maru, Parting, Life a lot more than Innovation, Rain and SoO, but on the other hand if everyone plays like Maru, Parting and Life are these players then still special? Imagine Maru on steroids. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
On August 01 2015 08:49 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: I don't see how zergs can really outmacro other zergs if they all have the same inject timings. Terrans can still outmacro because depots aren't automated. The basics of spending all of your resources is in itself a high skillcap, so this isn't the end of macro as we know it. This isn't DoW or C&C. The macro strain is still very high | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
Since when were macro mechanics ever an issue in sc2?! Seriously, with everything the community is talking about... I don't think I have ever seen someone complain about macro mechanics... Where does this shit come from, outer space? Did some alien on planet z-knar complain?! Someone please correct if I am just out of touch with reality... -_- Cause the suggestion to "cut macro mechanics" is insane. This is a flippin RTS game, macro should be at least 50% of it. If you diminish macro you truly do move toward making this a moba game where you control the creeps and buildings automatically make shit. The most impressive part of watching a pro player play is how he (or she) multitasks with engagements and building an army. I would even vote for macro mechanics to become harder for certain races like zerg before they became easier. Let the macromechnic define skill even more that it already does! If you want to demonstrate macro there are MANY ways to do that and instead your answer is, "Meh, lets just cut it." What about having a constant inject timer running during the cast of a game and one for nexus/mule? What about more first person view? What about a number showing the accumulation of seconds between injects, mules and nexus? These are just a couple ideas that can demonstrate these mechanics to viewers. If we strip macro out of rts, this game is dead to me. I feel that strongly about it. How does the logic of "Well, since viewers cant really notice how difficult macro mechanics are... we should just cut it from the game. Right?" Are you fucking kidding me? Does the viewer get to play the game for me? Are they the one sitting in my seat trying to enjoy it? Well shit let me sit back and get some popcorn and a soda! Maybe I should pay blizzard $40 and the viewer and I should sit back and both watch! Since watching is the most important thing and dictates the decisions about game design! I had NO idea until now that the true way to enjoy the game was to pay other people to play it and watch. What else can we do to make it more fun to watch? I think we have officially reached the point at which LOTV is about making an "esport" and not making a game that is fun to fucking play for me and other people that payed for it. This also the first time I have considered NOT BUYING LOTV. Truly didn't see that coming. Also, I am a zerg player, and I think a 16 second offensive warp in is insane. I just don't get the logic of a complete nerf for protoss. If you nerf warp gate that hard you have to buff something else instead of just crippling the race. What pylon doesn't get sniped on a 16 second offensive warp in? Why can't you offer a sensible suggestion like the one mentioned by SC2John, "For the record, I still support the idea of making gateways produce faster while warpgates have a higher cooldown. Logically, this makes sense and requires fairly little rebalancing (just lower the production rates by a hair for gateways while giving warp gates an extra cooldown of ~10 seconds per unit and perhaps change the transformation time). It doesn't require any forced interaction in the game, and gives defender's advantage a strong buff while severely cutting the power of continued warpin aggression. At the very least, I'd like to see it tried and have significant amount of data collected before we write it off as "just a community nag" | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
If these macro changes go through I will be done with this game. sure there's a lot of ways to say skill but macro is one and inject for zerg is like the main part that and creep. Good creep and inject you can get your way to masters at least IMO. the rest Im not sure, I like toss nerfs but will have to see cause 16 is long and i hate toss with a passion. | ||
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