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United States11392 Posts
On October 29 2015 07:23 nafta wrote: You are undervaluing the change for supports. Now buying gold item upgrade over ruby crystal for sighstone delays you more than before cuz you can't just buy a few wards. Meddler quotes about sightstone upgrade paths:
Meddler (NA) Tier 2 support item + Sightstone = an upgraded Sightstone with upgraded stats from both component items.
E.g. Frost Fang + Sightstone combine into 'Eye of the Watchers' which has the Sightstone ward active, the Tribute passive and gives Health/AP/GP10/Mana Regen.
Meddler (NA) You'll have the choice of either merging your T2 support item with Sightstone or going for the T3 support version. If going for the T3 support approach Ruby Sightstone should now be more attractive too (gives reduced CD on active items, so pairs well with Talisman/Face/Frost Queen's).
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So FotM junglers are going to be FotM it seems
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Hi all,
By now, you probably know we're giving small gameplay updates to Quinn, Kog'Maw, Miss Fortune, Corki, Graves, and Caitlyn. That said, we're also doing small changes to quite a few other marksmen that aim to establish/sharpen their identities. For these characters, please do leave your PBE feedback here. There's a lot of marksmen change going on here, and we're interested in your thoughts, so if you have an opinion, don't hesitate to voice it! Changes:
Ashe
Change Goals Allow Ashe to interact with chance-based crit events in a way that doesn't compromise her recently-new passive's steady damage output. Follow up the changes made to Ranger's Focus (Q) earlier this year to make the spell a more interesting, engaging part of her pattern. P - Frost Shot Base slow reduced 5/11/17/23/29/35% >>> 5/9/13/17/21/25% Dealing bonus damage via Frost Shot no longer counts as a Critical Strike (bonus damage unchanged) Ashe’s Critical Strikes (which once again happen only by chance per all other characters) deal only 1.0 Total AD (as opposed to 2.0 standard), but they apply Frost Shot’s slow at double effectiveness (10/18/26/34/42/50%), decaying to the base amount over the duration of the slow Q - Ranger's Focus Slow amplification removed Can no longer be cast at less than 5 stacks, and passive Focus no longer stacks while the active component is running Passive no longer stacks with Volley and Enchanted Crystal Arrow Cooldown removed
Draven
Change Goals Make axe-catching gameplay flow smoother, especially later in the game. Base Stats Attack frame improved by 30% Attack Speed per level reduced to 1.5 from 2.7 Basic attack missile speed reduced to 1600 from 1700
Ezreal
Change Goals Build upon Ezreal's affinity for CDR-centric spellcasting item builds. Q - Mystic Shot Cooldown reducing effect increased 1.0 >>> 1.5 seconds Cooldown increased 6.0/5.5/5.0/4.5/4.0 >>> 6.5/6.0/5.5/5.0/4.5 E - Arcane Shift Cooldown increased at later ranks 19/17/15/13/11 >>> 19.0/17.5/16.0/14.5/13.0
Jinx
Change Goals Playing up what it means to Get Excited! as a path to success through a teamfight. Slowing down Rockets' Attack Speed so there's some tradeoff she incurs more of a tradeoff with that weapon. P - Get Excited! Can now chain together and stack, increasing Total Attack Speed by 15% per stack (Movement Speed portion does not stack) Duration increased 4 >>> 6 Q - Switcheroo! Jinx now has -15% Total Attack Speed while using Fishbones, the Rocket Launcher
Kalista
Change Goals Increasing Kalista's affinity for Attack Speed. Experimental dash scaling changes that help attack flow and reduce overall power from jumping. Base Stats Base AS increased 0.658 -> 0.694 AS per level reduced 3.3% -> 2.8% P - Martial Poise Jump distance scales with boot tier (as live), jump speed now only scales with AS/Slows (is slower early game but scales up).
Lucian
Change Goals Open up non Attack Speed based item builds, and make The Culling's damage output feel more consistently meaningful throughout the game. R - The Culling No longer scales with Attack Speed Now fires 20/25/30 bullets based on rank
Sivir
Change Goals Increasing Sivir’s affinity for CDR, bringing us back closer to the late game dream of “Ricochet all the time”. Base Stats Base Attack Speed reduced 0.66 >>> 0.625 W - Ricochet Cooldown now begins on spell cast rather than when the attack buff expires Cooldown increased 9/8/7/6/5 seconds >>> 12/10.5/9/7.5/6 Attack buff duration reduced 6 >>> 4
Tristana
Change Goals Begin to shift Trist away from late game clean-up hyper carry to more of an all-in AD caster. Empower mid game all-in strength while stripping some power from late game sustained dps. Clean up of minor cooldown returning mechanics in favor of more impactful Rocket Jump resets. Q - Rapid Fire No longer reduces [E] CD on hit while active Attacking [E] Target no longer reduces [Q] CD on hit. CD 20s -> 20 / 19 / 18 / 17 / 16s W - Rocket Jump Dmg Rescaled 80 / 105 / 130 / 155 / 180 -> 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260 No longer deals increased damage per [E] stack Now also resets on Max stack [E] Detonation on Champions E - Explosive Charge Now detonates instantly on 4th stack (max stacks). Bomb Animation shifted to represent this. Tristana’s abilities also add [E] stacks. Missile Speed 1800 -> 2400
Twitch
Change Goals Pushing Twitch a bit farther in the direction of the “marksman assassin” by adding an out to his assassination attempts via Ambush reset. Q - Ambush Added: Cooldown resets when an enemy champion affected by Deadly Venom dies Quality of Life Buff: Entering stealth now cancels Twitch's current auto attack order R - Rat-Ta-Tat-Tat Buff Duration reduced 7 >>> 5 Quality of Life Buff: casting Rat-Ta-Tat-Tat during Q's stealth no longer cancels stealth Cost 100/125/150 >>> 100 all ranks
Urgot
Change Goals Restore Urgot R's defensive steroid function later in the game so that he doesn't get wrecked so hard by all the percent penetration floating around out there. R - Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser No longer adds 60/90/120 Armor/MR Now adds 30/40/50% Damage Reduction
Varus
Change Goals Make R zoning more obvious and powerful. Shift R damage from initial hit to Blight procs. R - Chain of Corruption Now displays max Spread Range to Varus and Enemies if it is spreading to at least one enemy champion. Rooted targets gain 3 stacks of [W] Blight over the duration of the root. Damage 150 / 250 / 350 -> 100 / 175 / 250
Vayne
Change Goals Silver Bolts is about expected time to kill on all targets (not squishy bursting), and Vayne's path to success needs to come through Silver Bolts. Base Stats AD/lvl reduced 2.66 >>> 1.66 W - Silver Bolts Flat Damage removed Percent Health Damage increased 4/5/6/7/8% >>> 6/7.5/9/10.5/12% Minimum damage introduced at 40/60/80/100/120 flat damage
This is probably a lot to process. Feel free to give feedback on as much or as little as you like. Focusing specifically on "Is this a good direction?" would be great. We're pretty open to change on the above stuff.
Cheers, Repertoir
This Vayne buff though.
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My thoughts:
ADC rework seems fine. I think they could have worded what they were talking about a bit better in the article, but there's a clear problem that needs to be solved and in hindsight I think they did good jobs with the mage/bruiser item overhauls, so I'm excited for that. Esp excited for Quinn because she is probably my second favorite champion to play after Lux.
Vision changes they do every season, I never understand them but you need the details and the ability to see it all in context to understand them, and in hindsight I've always thought each season had better vision mechanics than the previous season, so that's fine.
The new jungle mob seems like a good idea, seems targeted at getting rid of the 100% need for teleport in top lane. If top A teleports to secure dragon, top B with ignite can take the rift herald at the same time and get a power spike big enough to dominate the lane after the teleport guy comes back. I'm sure that's the general idea.
I wonder how Mr herald will impact junglers though, junglers who can solo him easily might be high value.
The change that I'm concerned with is the mastery change coupled with the starting item change.
I think in theory its a good idea. I love mastery micro math, but most people don't, and it does end up with some builds just being objectively better than others. Their approach is similar to WoWs and its good theory, although actually balancing it to a point where its player preference and not what is 0.02% objectively better is a high bar to cross, I imagine.
What worries me about it is that, in season 5 they didn't change masteries, because they said they'd identified that mastery changes have a huge impact on jungle champions and one of their big goals for season 5 was increasing the number of jungle playstyles and jungle diversity. They didn't achieve that goal, I think. Poachers was never used. Devourer junglers made it to solo queue but never competitive, slow ganking late game junglers were only around while cinderhulk was OP and disappeared after it got Nerfed, and so on.
They didn't really state any way how they are going to improve jungle diversity, while introducing bigger changes to masteries than they've ever done before, which might radically change jungle balance in a way that might take them half a season to catch up with.
The starting item changes I wouldn't care about so much, but I think coupled with the mastery changes it might end up radically changing level 1 on so many champions that balance might be a real mess for a while.
Also, while their statement that there's no item diversity at level 1 is true, and while in general I love item diversity and related choices, I want to make those choices based on what happens inside of the game, so I'm not sure how much I actually want diversity and choices at level 1.
So on masteries/starting items, I can understand their reasoning, but I'm worried that it will shake things up more than other preseason did and we might have a real mess for a while.
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On October 29 2015 07:57 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 06:54 cLutZ wrote: They better not change Kog at all, unless they buff his W range based off levels so I can AA blue from Baron pit. Yeah I really don't understand why they would rework him of all champions, there's tons of other champs that could use it more. He's played moderately in soloQ and sees a reasonable amount of play in pro play, no one complains about him being broken or oppressive, and I personally enjoy playing him. Maybe they don't like the concept of AP Kog? Then, IMO, they should half his price, and clone him for current owners and make KogMaw and WamGok if they don't like him being a flex pick.
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Oh, looking at the proposed Quinn changes, I'm not sure I like them at all.
Quinn is supposed to be an ADC who transforms into an Assassin when she ults.
Her human form stuff is fine.
Her bird form stuff is too weak and not unique enough.
They need to change her bird form stuff to be more awesome ala Gnar, not neuter it to give more power to her human form.
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It's not a Bird form, it's just a switch to get a bunch of MS so you can roam around, but there's no bird form anymore.
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On October 29 2015 08:55 Ketara wrote: Oh, looking at the proposed Quinn changes, I'm not sure I like them at all.
Quinn is supposed to be an ADC who transforms into an Assassin when she ults.
Her human form stuff is fine.
Her bird form stuff is too weak and not unique enough.
They need to change her bird form stuff to be more awesome ala Gnar, not neuter it to give more power to her human form. Nothing should be made more like gnar...
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So basically they're changing pretty much every ADC and hoping what comes out at the end is reasonable. Uh... good luck with that.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Quinn changes look kinda dumb. I don't see how a hyper-mobile ADC is particularly useful outside of a splitpush situation, which coincidentally is less powerful now on Quinn because her dueling potential is massively reduced. Remove the damage from the R and put that back into the blind on her Q imo.
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All I'm looking forward to is to see just how fast an uncapped Kog'Maw buffed by WW, J4 and Nunu can actually end up attacking.
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On October 29 2015 10:28 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 10:25 Jek wrote: All I'm looking forward to is to see just how fast an uncapped Kog'Maw buffed by WW, J4 and Nunu can actually end up attacking. +ezreal w + ardent censer + nidalee heal damn edit: ah only 5 champions tho so prob get rid of j4 since he gives the lowest AS Who needs AD when your attack speed go to 11.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
After 10 minutes of lazy reading, for some reason I wanna say that it's going to be worse than s5, lol.
Essence reaver has no right to belong into game, zz, why are you pushing it to be core, Riot. And of course, we needed even more crits, cheaper pinks (so noone will still buy them) and weird support changes, which will always go into one direction anyway.
And also, I can't wait to see how hard is Kalista going to get nerfed. And if not, I just wanna laugh.
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On October 29 2015 09:59 zer0das wrote: So basically they're changing pretty much every ADC and hoping what comes out at the end is reasonable. Uh... good luck with that. hey it's time that ADCs can you know, actually carry again
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Also the vision is dumb. Vision needs to be almost infinite (ala S3) or almost none (DOTA). This splitting the baby on vision they keep trying to do is actually just thinly veiled RNG.
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These are some pretty huge changes, interesting to see how it be like playing in game
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I hate the change on Kog. Just when I'm starting to play him too
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That change will effectively destroy Ashe. I don't see how an AD has any viable part in a team when their "crits" are just better slows than she used to give. 0 damage train ahoy.
It was a fun few months while it lasted Ashe, time to go back to not being picked for a couple years while Riot says you're still in a good spot.
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