[Patch 3.10: Yimake Patch] General Discussion - Page 248

On August 14 2013 15:17 cLutZ wrote:


My follow up to this statement would be: What is the meta you think that would allow Soraka to be a top tier pick again? Because I dont think there is one. She has not been an optimal support pick since the Nautilus patch (Feb 2012), was briefly a strong + annoying solo laner following that. Then she was murdered in that regard in the Varus Patch (May 2012 following dig's "amazing" 3rd place finish using her), and a coup de gras was delivered in July with the Jayce patch with nerfs to both healing abilities.

Personally, I feel like she is basically a weak Karthus right now.

On August 14 2013 23:05 nafta wrote:
I'd say silence>>>>>>>heal in helping someone handle zed.If he doesn't kill you during his ult/bork combo most champs can just kill him after.

On August 14 2013 23:59 xes wrote:


The solution is obvious: Soraka's W should get a CD refund on Kill/Assist.

On August 14 2013 23:59 xes wrote:


The solution is obvious: Soraka's W should get a CD refund on Kill/Assist.

"@CLG_Nien: would anyone be interested in analyzing my play? if so, send me a tweet or a msg on facebook/twitch with how u would help/what u would do"

"@NeoIllusions: @CLG_Nien I'd be interested. I'll MSG you in the morning"

On August 14 2013 23:28 sylverfyre wrote:
The thing is, half the supports in the game can do that. Lulu, Alistar, Taric all have unavoidable lockdown. Janna and Sona can blow their ult on it. Leona has to get in melee but can lock him down longer than any of the above. Even ignoring that any support can run exhaust. I'll still take Lulu over Raka if I want single target combo shutdown. Khazix or zed jumping in? Ult the target (because it's instant), then bunny him as he's about to land from that. Nobody does combo breakers better than Lulu.

I feel like Soraka was never even that great of a choice for AP+Support - a lot of APs solve their mana issue so early on (or don't really have one to begin with) so why not run a support that can provide more presence instead of one that basically turns lanes into passive farmfests at best? Or worse, turns them into 'We're trying to passively farm but you can go ahead and try to kill us if you want.'

Soraka doesn't even have very good healing throughput - Taric, Sona, and Nami all crush her in this respect. Her healing is marginally more efficient than Nami's, but not much so, and Nami also does damage with her heal, allowing her to contribute presence to lane trades even if she IS maxing heal.

Even if supports got more income, I'd rather have a 40% CDR Nami or Lulu churning out tons of CC. 40% CDR Soraka STILL only heals once every 12 seconds. All this talk of healing for +armor to counter zed ulti? You better hope you didnt use your heal to try to ward off some chip damage at all in recent memory, because of that monster cooldown.

On August 14 2013 23:59 xes wrote:


The solution is obvious: Soraka's W should get a CD refund on Kill/Assist.

On August 14 2013 23:59 xes wrote:
The solution is obvious: Soraka's W should get a CD refund on Kill/Assist.

On August 14 2013 23:09 Seuss wrote:


That question is a little loaded. By definition not all champions can be top tier/optimal picks, and I would argue from a design standpoint that they shouldn't try to be either. That's not to say that you should intentionally make champions bad, but that some champions are perfectly fine being situational or conditional picks (so long as the situations or conditions required aren't completely unrealistic or asinine).

I would argue that right now Soraka is a situational pick. Obviously she'd thrive in an environment where supports get greater income, but she's a viable (though not a top tier) pick at this very moment. I'd consider picking Soraka any time I see a poke-heavy but initiation-light composition from my opponents, any time I thought the sustain she provided could lead to successful aggression against a sustainless opposing duo, and any time I felt that she would be able to hold out for the mid-late game without giving a huge advantage to her opponents.

If you want Soraka to be a top tier pick the meta does need to shift significantly, to tankier compositions or AP+Support lanes or wealthier supports. But again, being a top tier pick is not necessary.



Way back when TROLLS was testing AP + Support duos (which involved a lot of Soraka), Soniv's Kha'zix got completely screwed over again and again by Soraka's silence. He'd jump in and suddenly his combo wouldn't work. It was glorious.

On August 15 2013 00:26 cLutZ wrote:


I understand what you are saying in that not all picks can be top tier. Like I understand Blitzcrank or Alistar are typically outclassed, however, I think that they are still useful picks for certain comps or against certain comps.

The thing about Soraka, is I think she needs too much gold to be a support in any realistic meta right now. Her spells all have a lot of their power locked up in scaling, and she really needs to max all of her skills. Q Shreds more per lvl, W heals more and gives more armor, and E gives more mana + longer silence. So Soraka needs Gold + Levels to be good.

You gave 3 situations where you think you would pick her, I think I would only pick her if All 3 of those were satisfied (poke heavy enemy with no engage, sustainless duo, lategame advantage) but I would still probably look elsewhere 9/10 times because against that kind of enemy botlane (Sounds like you are Facing Kog/Janna) you prolly dont want to stall too much.

On August 14 2013 19:06 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I'm like maining Morgana right now just because she feels so right

On August 15 2013 00:34 Alaric wrote:
Holy freaking crap what the hell I didn't know Ashe could do so much damage at level 2. o_o

I'm playing hyper-aggressive everytime I pick Lulu (going as far as to start flask+2 wards to sustain the trades and spamming habits) and what often happens is I get the enemy AD to around half health by level 2 while losing some myself, then I start running low on mana, pick my aggro more carefully, and I'm nearly oom by level 4 with their AD being around 2/3rd health and behind a little bit of farm.

Ashe informed me right at the start that he'll play aggro at level 2, so I willfully trade hits with Leona and Vayne, dropping the former to half-health at level 1, by the time she heals it's Vayne who's getting low. I bait a trade, and as Ashe hits 2 he goes in and starts wailing on them with the creep wave advantage, they burn Exhaust on him and both enemies retreat with around 100-150 HP left under their tower as we push it (and drop it to a third of its health by the time they come back).

I know Vayne+Leona is a super weak lane until 3, and Ashe+Lulu is a strong harassing duo to abuse that, but going from a poor average performance to plain wrecking the enemy duo and straight up win the lane just because my AD participated in the trades and went aggro too is such a huge difference.
Makes me wonder if the problem isn't only the way I play Lulu but also the fact that it works better when followed up on (it is "followed up on" or "followed upon"?) and it happens so rarely in soloQ.