[Patch 3.10: Yimake Patch] General Discussion - Page 250
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
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JonGalt
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
If you wanna socialize and mingle with teams and become a coach for some team, go to as many group stages as you can! Edit: Thanks for the following up on clarification! | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
For you, caelym, Semis by far, it seems. | ||
Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On August 15 2013 01:37 Alaric wrote: So you can say "they followed up my initiation with <their stuff>" to indicate what they did, and "they followed upon my initiation" to indicate when they did it? Thanks. Also how come I have so much trouble dealing with Vlad as Irelia? Isn't the match-up supposed to be quite even, or did the s3 changes in general gimp her that much that she just loses it? He rushed Wraith Spirit off of boots start, but after that he went straight for mercs which bring nothing to the match-up except reducing my slow, and even with Spectre's Cowl+Cutlass (and MR quints) I'd drop around half his health with a full combo (if I get a stun) w/o ult nor ignite, then he just spam Q and E on me such that he'd have reversed the health advantage before even half of Hiten Style's cooldown passed. Can't 100-0 him anyway because of Pool, I'd need to bait it out or drop him so low than next fight I can fight him, chase his pool, and kill him afterwards while tanking the turret and his ult if needed, which is made impossible by how much he sustains between trades. He even spent a bunch of the lane tanking minion aggro since he was autoing me when he could, but once he had revolver he just outsustained that too on top of the rest. With Spectre's, MR quints and the sustaim from Hiten+Cutlass I'd have expected better than that. << Can you tell me what league you're in? It makes a big difference, eventhough in higher levels irelia is good vs vlad (not so much anymore), in lower levels vlad will almost always beat irelia cause people don't understand moving between attacks. I'm also wondering if you understand Irelia mechanics? As in, Q a minion near him that's almost dead to ge the reset, E, walk beside him W, auto walk auto walk etc. until he pool, then use Q again, auto some more. | ||
Roffles
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Pitcairn19291 Posts
On August 15 2013 02:33 Feartheguru wrote: Can you tell me what league you're in? It makes a big difference, in lower levels vlad will almost always beat irelia cause people don't understand moving between attacks. I'm also wondering if you understand Irelia mechanics? As in, Q a minion near him that's almost dead to ge the reset, E, walk beside him W, auto walk auto walk etc. until he pool, then use Q again, auto some more. Alaric never wins games. So something like Copper 4. | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 15 2013 01:37 Alaric wrote: So you can say "they followed up my initiation with <their stuff>" to indicate what they did, and "they followed upon my initiation" to indicate when they did it? Thanks. Also how come I have so much trouble dealing with Vlad as Irelia? Isn't the match-up supposed to be quite even, or did the s3 changes in general gimp her that much that she just loses it? He rushed Wraith Spirit off of boots start, but after that he went straight for mercs which bring nothing to the match-up except reducing my slow, and even with Spectre's Cowl+Cutlass (and MR quints) I'd drop around half his health with a full combo (if I get a stun) w/o ult nor ignite, then he just spam Q and E on me such that he'd have reversed the health advantage before even half of Hiten Style's cooldown passed. Can't 100-0 him anyway because of Pool, I'd need to bait it out or drop him so low than next fight I can fight him, chase his pool, and kill him afterwards while tanking the turret and his ult if needed, which is made impossible by how much he sustains between trades. He even spent a bunch of the lane tanking minion aggro since he was autoing me when he could, but once he had revolver he just outsustained that too on top of the rest. With Spectre's, MR quints and the sustaim from Hiten+Cutlass I'd have expected better than that. << Are you maxing Q or E (second) against vlad? I find Q max is better because the cooldown drops so much that you can re-engage after pool is over. If he drops low enough that he can't shove the wave, he also can't keep up E stacks and you can jump on him with ignite when your shit comes back up. Moving for BORK SV does sound like the right itemization at least. Remember that it's ok to turn it into a farm lane too, especially if he can't really shove freely. | ||
Alaric
France45622 Posts
![]() Other than that I'm Gold I atm and my attack-move is definitely the kind of mechanics I'm bad at. He didn't let me Q to a nearly dead minion because of how he pushed the lane (his jungler came twice around 4 minutes and sat in the bush in between so this let Vlad build up a huge wave w/o sharing exp., and after his first back he just spammed non-stop to push), and I ended up a lil' bit slower than him (hence the Cutlass) because he rushed mercs while I was on boots1 (so around a 10 MS gap). Last times I played the match-up there was no need for as much stutter-stepping (sometimes none at all) so I guess considering how bad I'm at it and how greedy I am with boots (esp. mercs when I don't value the tenacity especially high in lane, Vlad being a case with his impressive cc) even such a tiny change can make a huge swing in how I perform. Maybe I should switch back to MS quints on top of working on my mechanics, if I can zone him out (because more autos = more damage = harder for him to just walk back, stand there and faceroll) there should be less need for resistances. I don't really feel comfortable having to rush mercs against a no-cc champ though. ^ I usually max W, put 3 points in E for longer cc, then max Q. In this case he didn't even have to use Pool anyway and it was more the MS that was the problem I think, as he would stay near me regardless, as long as he wouldn't die from QRignite or there was no low-health minion for me to get in E range. Being able to land more autos would have dropped him lower and possibly let me zone him or at least made him wary of trying to sustain by spamming me. Main problem was that he'd heal back enough while Hiten Style is on cd, and I don't think I'd do enough damage without it to warrant shortening Q cd (it's around the same as Hiten Style at level 1, when used to reach and combo him). | ||
mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
Thank god the opposing team was awful and couldn't even abuse a lvl3 Annie at 10 minutes (and god they tried, friggin tryhards). | ||
caelym
United States6421 Posts
On August 15 2013 02:23 NeoIllusions wrote: Finals > Semis > Groups For you, caelym, Semis by far, it seems. I agree. Semis have a good balance of game quality, spectacle, and mingling opportunities. If you live within 1 hour flight though, Finals seem like the best choice if you had to pick one. | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Even with him having more MS, you should be getting position to get multiple autos off after jumping onto him. If you still dont want mercs (make this judgement based on the tenacity requirement of the REST of their team. I think you're underrating the upgrade to mercs when their jungler is udyr + is camping you?) but still want to get boots 2, just get tabi or zerks. | ||
Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On August 15 2013 02:46 Alaric wrote: Y'know I can win games and be dissatisfied with what happened, right? ![]() Other than that I'm Gold I atm and my attack-move is definitely the kind of mechanics I'm bad at. He didn't let me Q to a nearly dead minion because of how he pushed the lane (his jungler came twice around 4 minutes and sat in the bush in between so this let Vlad build up a huge wave w/o sharing exp., and after his first back he just spammed non-stop to push), and I ended up a lil' bit slower than him (hence the Cutlass) because he rushed mercs while I was on boots1 (so around a 10 MS gap). Last times I played the match-up there was no need for as much stutter-stepping (sometimes none at all) so I guess considering how bad I'm at it and how greedy I am with boots (esp. mercs when I don't value the tenacity especially high in lane, Vlad being a case with his impressive cc) even such a tiny change can make a huge swing in how I perform. Maybe I should switch back to MS quints on top of working on my mechanics, if I can zone him out (because more autos = more damage = harder for him to just walk back, stand there and faceroll) there should be less need for resistances. I don't really feel comfortable having to rush mercs against a no-cc champ though. ^ I usually max W, put 3 points in E for longer cc, then max Q. In this case he didn't even have to use Pool anyway and it was more the MS that was the problem I think, as he would stay near me regardless, as long as he wouldn't die from QRignite or there was no low-health minion for me to get in E range. Being able to land more autos would have dropped him lower and possibly let me zone him or at least made him wary of trying to sustain by spamming me. Main problem was that he'd heal back enough while Hiten Style is on cd, and I don't think I'd do enough damage without it to warrant shortening Q cd (it's around the same as Hiten Style at level 1, when used to reach and combo him). Boots in top lane is a big no-no. In most cases don't even get basic boots until late-laning phase (lane is decided). Rushing tier 2 boots is pretty awful and should be an autoloss against people your level (except tabi, tabi op). You're giving up 2 dorans for 45 ms? Max Q immediately after W, getting more of E is not worth. You also don't need Hiten style to trade. | ||
cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On August 15 2013 02:46 Alaric wrote: Y'know I can win games and be dissatisfied with what happened, right? ![]() Other than that I'm Gold I atm and my attack-move is definitely the kind of mechanics I'm bad at. He didn't let me Q to a nearly dead minion because of how he pushed the lane (his jungler came twice around 4 minutes and sat in the bush in between so this let Vlad build up a huge wave w/o sharing exp., and after his first back he just spammed non-stop to push), and I ended up a lil' bit slower than him (hence the Cutlass) because he rushed mercs while I was on boots1 (so around a 10 MS gap). Last times I played the match-up there was no need for as much stutter-stepping (sometimes none at all) so I guess considering how bad I'm at it and how greedy I am with boots (esp. mercs when I don't value the tenacity especially high in lane, Vlad being a case with his impressive cc) even such a tiny change can make a huge swing in how I perform. Maybe I should switch back to MS quints on top of working on my mechanics, if I can zone him out (because more autos = more damage = harder for him to just walk back, stand there and faceroll) there should be less need for resistances. I don't really feel comfortable having to rush mercs against a no-cc champ though. ^ I usually max W, put 3 points in E for longer cc, then max Q. In this case he didn't even have to use Pool anyway and it was more the MS that was the problem I think, as he would stay near me regardless, as long as he wouldn't die from QRignite or there was no low-health minion for me to get in E range. Being able to land more autos would have dropped him lower and possibly let me zone him or at least made him wary of trying to sustain by spamming me. Main problem was that he'd heal back enough while Hiten Style is on cd, and I don't think I'd do enough damage without it to warrant shortening Q cd (it's around the same as Hiten Style at level 1, when used to reach and combo him). Why are you expecting to win a lane that was camped during one of its most crucial stages? | ||
AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
![]() I wasn't really denied cs either (maybe 1-2 for which I got exp), only made unable to keep the wave balanced so I could fight in it if needed. | ||
IMoperator
4476 Posts
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 15 2013 03:10 Alaric wrote: I wouldn't call that "camped" when he stayed around 30s for Vlad to build the huge wave and only showed his face without making me burn health/mana/summoners, though. I mean, I tend to whine, but when it comes to jungle interference I'm laxer. ![]() I wasn't really denied cs either (maybe 1-2 for which I got exp), only made unable to keep the wave balanced so I could fight in it if needed. That's still giving vlad an edge at a really critical early game time. It's vlad's most dangerous time in lane (levels 3-5, basically). If you can turn it around at 5 or 6, then you can, but remember that if vlad gets 9 unmolested you will probably NEVER kill him, his damage and healing with level 9 + revolver rises to unreasonable levels to bother trying to win 1v1 anymore. Just get your core items and use Irelia's superior midgame roam to create picks, contest red/blue buffs, etc. I'm not trying to say rush merc treads, but you do need boots at all ever. They shouldn't be the deciding factor in winning trades, combat stats will provide much more. You have the right idea with the bilgewater slow. But if you're jumping on him, chunking him to half health or forcing a pool with Hiten + combo, then you're backing off and letting him Q/E the creeps... of course he'll get most of that health back by the time hiten comes back up. It's very worth blowing ignite on vlad even if its not a kill if you can just force him out of lane with it - exp advantage is more important than gold advantage with him (which it sounds like he had due to the udyr interaction) (You ARE in fact allowed to auto attack people with hiten on cooldown!) MS quints are a terrible idea though. | ||
IMoperator
4476 Posts
On August 15 2013 03:19 mordek wrote: Then you must overcome adversity and conquer plat as a master TF player. Sounds more rewarding than just being Diamond ![]() idk how that is possible though lol, he's still banned ~75% of my games even though he was nerfed quite hard, AND he gets counterpicked super easily. I would love to play TF a whole bunch, but after having my anus ravaged by Ahri or Fizz it makes me dread first picking TF. | ||
mordek
United States12704 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On August 15 2013 03:15 IMoperator wrote: Is it true that you gain elo faster when you pick one champ and completely master them? Or is it better to have a few champs that you're pretty good at in order to counter pick or that would be better in some comps? Also, I wan to find a champ to play to diamond from plat 1, but the only champ I really enjoy playing and could play every game is TF, and he's either banned or they pick Fizz against me (fuck that fish, seriously). I wanna find another champ but nobody is as fun to me ![]() It depends on how best you learn. Some people get insights into the game by sticking with one champion and observing how different situations vary around that fixed point. Other people get insights by triangulating from a variety of champions. Either way, the point is generally to be learning something useful whatever you are doing. The surest way to gain Elo is to learn. The fastest way is to learn quickly. | ||
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