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On January 03 2012 15:28 ControlMonkey wrote:
I played a normal game where I picked vayne after someone else picks Janna. So of course the rest of the team picked Ashe MF and twitch. I guess that's what I get for alt-tabbing during champ selection.
That's some awesome troll picks right there. 5 thornmails and randuins later I as vayne was the only one doing serious damage. Turned out to be a fun game though. The other team was too bad to finish us off, so it was a 55 minute long game, where they constantly fought 4v5.
So troll picks are mainly about picking a role your team already has. And Evelyn.
Edit: just played a game as karthus mid vs kass and just got shat on. Zoned me all day with his orb, turret dived me for the kill and just ults out. Unpleasant experience. Anyway, I always read here that ranged ad counters kass mid. Can someone explain exactly how/why?
Kassadin specializes in dominating AP carries (exactly what happened to you). Obviously, AP carriers rely on spells more than AAs while AD carries are the exact opposite.
So throw someone like Caitlyn mid against Kassadin and what happens? Kass tries to farm, Cait shoots him in the face to deny him all day. Kass shoots Q at her? Ok, she'll take the damage and continue shooting you in the face. In other words, they shut down Kassadin and zone him entirely if they play aggressive enough. Best thing Kass can do is last hit with Q and last hit at turret.
I've beaten trist mid before, but this Trist was really bad. Didn't use rocket jump to get in my face and just let me Q her constantly eventually leading to me bursting her down.
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Is it ever a good idea to build bloodrazor on an AD carry? I was playing trist in a ranked game and got really fed and dominated bot. I had IE by 16 min but the other team's Irelia was also fed and went after me in every team fight. I had IE + PD but no tank so I spent an entire team fight running from her and the enemy nocturne while my team got destroyed by the enemy Vayne. Would bloodrazor be more useful than a PD in this situation where bruisers with atmog, triforce or FM tunnel vision you?
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On January 03 2012 15:43 Craton wrote:
Kass wins because he can trade more efficiently with mages because of his silence, burst, and free mana from W. AD's don't give a fuck about your silence, especially early. Cait especially can zone Kass really hard because of traps and range.
The problem is that in order to really punish a Kass like that you have to overextend, which means their jungler should be waltzing in for an early gank. If an AD gets behind against Kass he's just going to get stomped like everyone else. People like Trynd / Sion more for that reason. Trynd can completely ignore Kass's harass while zoning him off anything farther than melee minions attacking the tower and can spin out of a gank, while Sion can shield Kass's entire Q, force Kass to take all year farming under tower (so he can gank freely), and will win trades if executed properly. Can also counter ganks with stun/shield pretty easily (especially early, and by later you are probably insta clearing wave and then ganking).
basically this for the most part,
imo even if you do get up against a kass as an AP champ tho, your best bet is to just shove the lane as hard as you can from lvl 1. Kass is one of the worst when it comes to dealing with waves under towers.
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On January 03 2012 15:54 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
Is it ever a good idea to build bloodrazor on an AD carry? I was playing trist in a ranked game and got really fed and dominated bot. I had IE by 16 min but the other team's Irelia was also fed and went after me in every team fight. I had IE + PD but no tank so I spent an entire team fight running from her and the enemy nocturne while my team got destroyed by the enemy Vayne. Would bloodrazor be more useful than a PD in this situation where bruisers with atmog or FM tunnel vision you?
9 times out of 10 99 times out of 100, the answer is no. If they dont have armor, then your best bet is any choice of more AD, Aspeed or crit, so in that situation i would grab bloodthirster (assuming your question is to kill them, in all honesty i would grab GA in that specific situation). If they do have armor (and they almost always do) then last whisper is going to get you a lot more mileage than bloodrazor will at that stage of the game.
edit2: 9 times out of 10 is actually way too generous, but there is a case for bloodrazor in the sense that it does do incredibly high dps as a single item, so if you were to go like a bloodrazor-fmallet tankish build, bloodrazor would get you a lot further than any other single dps item, but the passive part has garbage synergy (and tbh that's what you're largely paying for when you get it) with crit, +ad and apen
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On January 03 2012 15:44 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 15:28 ControlMonkey wrote:
I played a normal game where I picked vayne after someone else picks Janna. So of course the rest of the team picked Ashe MF and twitch. I guess that's what I get for alt-tabbing during champ selection.
That's some awesome troll picks right there. 5 thornmails and randuins later I as vayne was the only one doing serious damage. Turned out to be a fun game though. The other team was too bad to finish us off, so it was a 55 minute long game, where they constantly fought 4v5.
So troll picks are mainly about picking a role your team already has. And Evelyn.
Edit: just played a game as karthus mid vs kass and just got shat on. Zoned me all day with his orb, turret dived me for the kill and just ults out. Unpleasant experience. Anyway, I always read here that ranged ad counters kass mid. Can someone explain exactly how/why? Kassadin specializes in dominating AP carries (exactly what happened to you). Obviously, AP carriers rely on spells more than AAs while AD carries are the exact opposite. So throw someone like Caitlyn mid against Kassadin and what happens? Kass tries to farm, Cait shoots him in the face to deny him all day. Kass shoots Q at her? Ok, she'll take the damage and continue shooting you in the face. In other words, they shut down Kassadin and zone him entirely if they play aggressive enough. Best thing Kass can do is last hit with Q and last hit at turret. I've beaten trist mid before, but this Trist was really bad. Didn't use rocket jump to get in my face and just let me Q her constantly eventually leading to me bursting her down.
It sounds like you could've played me. I used to be really bad (I still am actually), and I faced this Kass in lane and got shat on because I never fought back against and just let him take pot shots.
After that, I never lost to a Kass again when I went mid trist (though when I did go mid, I was just trolling and went AP Trist every time).
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Ehh, this Trist would AA me first few levels. I was still able to just chip her health down till I could go in for the kill.
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IMO you need lane shoving abilities against kassadin to push to his tower quickly and avoid getting ganked. Sustain is good as well.
People who think you should always put an AD against him are also the people who think he's op :/
IMO get an AP that wave clears well, and isn't going to die to a gank, then just deny his blue. He's significantly weaker without it.
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On January 03 2012 16:08 Cloud9157 wrote:
Ehh, this Trist would AA me first few levels. I was still able to just chip her health down till I could go in for the kill.
You can actually go in for a harass if you time it to when she goes in for last hits. Her attack animation is really clumpsy so you may be able to get out of her range in time.
9 times out of 10 99 times out of 100, the answer is no. If they dont have armor, then your best bet is any choice of more AD, Aspeed or crit, so in that situation i would grab bloodthirster (assuming your question is to kill them, in all honesty i would grab GA in that specific situation). If they do have armor (and they almost always do) then last whisper is going to get you a lot more mileage than bloodrazor will at that stage of the game.
I think my biggest mistake that game was not taking cleanse. I had to buy a QSS for all the triforce/FM procs, irelia slow/stun and nocturne's fear. That really delayed me a lot from getting the LW when the game was still pretty even. But really, my teams shouldn't be getting destroyed by Vayne that fast. We had a Xin and Lee with atmogs doing the same thing to her that their bruisers were doing to me.
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dont feel bad about losing to kass as karthus, its literally impossible to win that matchup unless their kass has a brain aneurysm. Its one of, if not the most, hard counter in the game.
Just never do it again, if you are playing blindpick and end up with it you have to switch lanes.
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On January 03 2012 16:10 tobi9999 wrote:
IMO you need lane shoving abilities against kassadin to push to his tower quickly and avoid getting ganked. Sustain is good as well.
People who think you should always put an AD against him are also the people who think he's op :/
IMO get an AP that wave clears well, and isn't going to die to a gank, then just deny his blue. He's significantly weaker without it.
eh, you can't really say to just 'deny his blue' like that. doing something like that is more dependent on your junglers map presence than it is on anything you can do in mid.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
just caught Dyrus streaming doublelift and himself playing SF and they are terrible haha
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TOO elo has now dropped so low he is in elementz territory.
Ironically, elementz territory is also smashgizmo territory apparently. And smashgizmo trist strong enough to carry the slumping TOO AND the dead weight that is elementz.
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On January 03 2012 16:24 Two_DoWn wrote:
TOO elo has now dropped so low he is in elementz territory.
Ironically, elementz territory is also smashgizmo territory apparently. And smashgizmo trist strong enough to carry the slumping TOO AND the dead weight that is elementz.
wtf? gizbro isn't playing solo top? color me shocked :o
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TOO took jungle panth so he had nothing to play 
Can anyone think of a non-bug reason where a Brand ult wouldn't bounce between a Kass and LS who were on top of each other with no minions nearby? Was in the lane toward the enemy tower and LS didn't ward to jump in so it's unlikely there was one there (I don't think Brand ult is bugged like Malz e anyway).
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I'm ingame with Craton, but he's busy ignoring my greeting. 
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2 things before bed
1) AP Trist has scary burst. Holy crap.
2) Am I the only one that thinks Graves can jungle? A low CD AoE (powerful one too), an AS boost, Passive gives Armor, the only thing he lacks is CC for ganks, but even then he has a slow and big burst and a semi-wall jump. Maybe sleep deprivation is making it sound better than it is.
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On January 03 2012 17:12 Requizen wrote:
2 things before bed
1) AP Trist has scary burst. Holy crap.
2) Am I the only one that thinks Graves can jungle? A low CD AoE (powerful one too), an AS boost, Passive gives Armor, the only thing he lacks is CC for ganks, but even then he has a slow and big burst and a semi-wall jump. Maybe sleep deprivation is making it sound better than it is.
I've jungled graves(old jungle release graves) and yeah it's pretty funny but it leaves you with abit of a weak tankyness and you kind of end up farming a lane or two at some point. Didn't win my games but I got close every time. So I feel he'd be an odd fun jungle nothing serious new awesum kinda deal. He does kind of need blue for abit as well.
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On January 03 2012 12:13 Jaso wrote:
So uh, before I leave I'm gonna leave this post here and check up on responses when I wake up.
From my experiences in 1400-1500 ELO ranked games, it seems that people are extremely picky (tier-list slaves) about their team's picks.
However watching streams of people like HSGG, I see picks like Kat, Olaf, Poppy, etc. Is it just because people at higher elos are more chill, or is it because of a difference in skill that people at high elo aren't picky about champions?
It's because every champ is viable, you just have to practice him well (and ofc most champs simply have their pros and cons) and most other people are sheep (look at the amount of posts asking "is viktor viable?")
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On January 03 2012 17:11 Ryrk wrote:I'm ingame with Craton, but he's busy ignoring my greeting.
I said "wat" "who are you people," but you never answered.
Crushed that team, though.
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On January 03 2012 17:33 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 17:11 Ryrk wrote:I'm ingame with Craton, but he's busy ignoring my greeting. I said "wat" "who are you people," but you never answered. Crushed that team, though.
I haven't played Kennen in forever, so I did really poorly.
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Thanks for the answers to my Kass questions, very helpful!
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EPT
