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[Patch 1.0.0.129: Fizz] General Discussion - Page 113

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Want to rage about your latest loss?
Use the QQ thread.
If you whine in GD, you'll get warned.
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
November 25 2011 06:21 GMT
#2241
On November 25 2011 15:04 LoCicero wrote:
Man, I have missed Windrunner so much. I've been massing WR games in dota2 lololol. Sorry LoL.

I miss spectre
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
taLbuk
Profile Joined April 2010
Madagascar1879 Posts
November 25 2011 06:23 GMT
#2242
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 25 2011 15:17 Navi wrote:
i think CLG handled the situation badly, if there was more real clear criticisms and how to improve - kind of effort put in (yes, they did say you suck elementz go practice more, but not detailed "you're lacking aggressive play at these stages, need to work on these comboes, stop playing overly aggressive at XYZ, etc." criticism that is more productive and clearer to the party being explained to the extent and depth of these flaws) then perhaps this wouldn't be as out of the blue as elementz seems to be making this seem.

that being said, elementz has been the weakest link on CLG for a very long time, even jiji's "slump" doesn't prevent him from doing well. he just isn't as consistently farmed and never dying as he used to be. elementz as a solo was extremely underwhelming compared to chauster / jiji when he and hotshot primarily played bottom, and even recently when hotshot was playing support his tops were fairly lacking. if you watch him play, he'll take obvious good trades, but he gets baited more often than the other CLG members and is mechanically lacking in comparison (more missed skillshots, worse map awareness, bad decision making in comparison) which makes it such that he's weaker than hotshot in top, jiji and chauster in mid, and probably as an AD as well (missing cs hurts d00d). he got shuffled over into the support role for this reason, as we all remember his annie play at dreamhack, when he was in a high pressure situation he couldn't deliver and his confidence was crushed as a result.

i think elementz, while probably not as egotistical as some of his teammates, is also having a couple of problems with seeing his play through rose-colored glasses. he views in retrospect his games with chauster as "never having lost lane, and having won sometimes." but when your AD carry is behind 20 cs and a kill or assist or two in the majority of games, that IS having lost lane. losing lane doesn't entail that chauster has to die, being behind on gold is obviously being behind, but if elementz can't view this in retrospect or at the time as a negative thing, that is in and of itself a big barrier to improvement.

this game, like many others, means different things to different people. to newcomers and strangers to BW, they see an old game with old graphics about aliens. but to BW fans, we have a history of pros and a greater knowledge of what makes the game one of finesse. even to a BW fan, the selling and trading of players may be seen as a dick move, but the teams pay money to win.
people may consider this a betrayal, but in the end to CLG winning is essential as a pro team. they haven't been getting the results that they believe they can get, and they are trying something to fix this. i don't believe they handled the first preliminary step or two correctly, but in the end i see their reasoning and agree with it.


well put. also unfortunately a lot of people seemed to read Elementz's blog that he put out today and forget that it obviously is fairly biased and although his personal views may leave many feel like he was betrayed, they have to remember that being the best team possible should be CLG's goal.

i just hope doublelift just plays his lane and follows calls, he plays the game extremely well only to go full retard multiple times a game which ended up costing curse quite a few matches, but if he can play his lane well like he does and listen to their calls he should be sick.
emji
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada82 Posts
November 25 2011 06:37 GMT
#2243
On November 25 2011 15:04 LoCicero wrote:
Man, I have missed Windrunner so much. I've been massing WR games in dota2 lololol. Sorry LoL.


Loci, can you stream them DotA2 games? lol
I find 95% of LoL streamers boring :<
GreenManalishi
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada834 Posts
November 25 2011 06:51 GMT
#2244
On November 25 2011 15:23 taLbuk wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 25 2011 15:17 Navi wrote:
i think CLG handled the situation badly, if there was more real clear criticisms and how to improve - kind of effort put in (yes, they did say you suck elementz go practice more, but not detailed "you're lacking aggressive play at these stages, need to work on these comboes, stop playing overly aggressive at XYZ, etc." criticism that is more productive and clearer to the party being explained to the extent and depth of these flaws) then perhaps this wouldn't be as out of the blue as elementz seems to be making this seem.

that being said, elementz has been the weakest link on CLG for a very long time, even jiji's "slump" doesn't prevent him from doing well. he just isn't as consistently farmed and never dying as he used to be. elementz as a solo was extremely underwhelming compared to chauster / jiji when he and hotshot primarily played bottom, and even recently when hotshot was playing support his tops were fairly lacking. if you watch him play, he'll take obvious good trades, but he gets baited more often than the other CLG members and is mechanically lacking in comparison (more missed skillshots, worse map awareness, bad decision making in comparison) which makes it such that he's weaker than hotshot in top, jiji and chauster in mid, and probably as an AD as well (missing cs hurts d00d). he got shuffled over into the support role for this reason, as we all remember his annie play at dreamhack, when he was in a high pressure situation he couldn't deliver and his confidence was crushed as a result.

i think elementz, while probably not as egotistical as some of his teammates, is also having a couple of problems with seeing his play through rose-colored glasses. he views in retrospect his games with chauster as "never having lost lane, and having won sometimes." but when your AD carry is behind 20 cs and a kill or assist or two in the majority of games, that IS having lost lane. losing lane doesn't entail that chauster has to die, being behind on gold is obviously being behind, but if elementz can't view this in retrospect or at the time as a negative thing, that is in and of itself a big barrier to improvement.

this game, like many others, means different things to different people. to newcomers and strangers to BW, they see an old game with old graphics about aliens. but to BW fans, we have a history of pros and a greater knowledge of what makes the game one of finesse. even to a BW fan, the selling and trading of players may be seen as a dick move, but the teams pay money to win.
people may consider this a betrayal, but in the end to CLG winning is essential as a pro team. they haven't been getting the results that they believe they can get, and they are trying something to fix this. i don't believe they handled the first preliminary step or two correctly, but in the end i see their reasoning and agree with it.


well put. also unfortunately a lot of people seemed to read Elementz's blog that he put out today and forget that it obviously is fairly biased and although his personal views may leave many feel like he was betrayed, they have to remember that being the best team possible should be CLG's goal.

i just hope doublelift just plays his lane and follows calls, he plays the game extremely well only to go full retard multiple times a game which ended up costing curse quite a few matches, but if he can play his lane well like he does and listen to their calls he should be sick.


I feel like if they were just more mature about dealing with Elementz they could have ended up with a much better situation. Let Elementz know right away that you wanted to try out Doublelift, and that he and Doublelift would be splitting scrims for awhile. That way they could see how Chauster does on support, and what kind of chemistry they have with Doublelift. This would also motivate Elementz to work on his support and up his game. I don't really blame Elementz for not playing enough support, he was told that he was going to play top, and he was practicing the shit out of Yorick, Renekton, and Vayne.

I think now CLG is stuck gambling that Chauster is going to be good at support (watching him today with missy doesn't give me much hope) and that Doublelift isn't going to continue being terrible at positioning and constant overextending. I honestly think that CLG has not gotten stronger by adding Doublelift. Maybe CLG should try mending some bridges, so they have a fallback in case the Doublelift experiment doesn't work out.
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
November 25 2011 06:54 GMT
#2245
On November 25 2011 15:51 GreenManalishi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2011 15:23 taLbuk wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 25 2011 15:17 Navi wrote:
i think CLG handled the situation badly, if there was more real clear criticisms and how to improve - kind of effort put in (yes, they did say you suck elementz go practice more, but not detailed "you're lacking aggressive play at these stages, need to work on these comboes, stop playing overly aggressive at XYZ, etc." criticism that is more productive and clearer to the party being explained to the extent and depth of these flaws) then perhaps this wouldn't be as out of the blue as elementz seems to be making this seem.

that being said, elementz has been the weakest link on CLG for a very long time, even jiji's "slump" doesn't prevent him from doing well. he just isn't as consistently farmed and never dying as he used to be. elementz as a solo was extremely underwhelming compared to chauster / jiji when he and hotshot primarily played bottom, and even recently when hotshot was playing support his tops were fairly lacking. if you watch him play, he'll take obvious good trades, but he gets baited more often than the other CLG members and is mechanically lacking in comparison (more missed skillshots, worse map awareness, bad decision making in comparison) which makes it such that he's weaker than hotshot in top, jiji and chauster in mid, and probably as an AD as well (missing cs hurts d00d). he got shuffled over into the support role for this reason, as we all remember his annie play at dreamhack, when he was in a high pressure situation he couldn't deliver and his confidence was crushed as a result.

i think elementz, while probably not as egotistical as some of his teammates, is also having a couple of problems with seeing his play through rose-colored glasses. he views in retrospect his games with chauster as "never having lost lane, and having won sometimes." but when your AD carry is behind 20 cs and a kill or assist or two in the majority of games, that IS having lost lane. losing lane doesn't entail that chauster has to die, being behind on gold is obviously being behind, but if elementz can't view this in retrospect or at the time as a negative thing, that is in and of itself a big barrier to improvement.

this game, like many others, means different things to different people. to newcomers and strangers to BW, they see an old game with old graphics about aliens. but to BW fans, we have a history of pros and a greater knowledge of what makes the game one of finesse. even to a BW fan, the selling and trading of players may be seen as a dick move, but the teams pay money to win.
people may consider this a betrayal, but in the end to CLG winning is essential as a pro team. they haven't been getting the results that they believe they can get, and they are trying something to fix this. i don't believe they handled the first preliminary step or two correctly, but in the end i see their reasoning and agree with it.


well put. also unfortunately a lot of people seemed to read Elementz's blog that he put out today and forget that it obviously is fairly biased and although his personal views may leave many feel like he was betrayed, they have to remember that being the best team possible should be CLG's goal.

i just hope doublelift just plays his lane and follows calls, he plays the game extremely well only to go full retard multiple times a game which ended up costing curse quite a few matches, but if he can play his lane well like he does and listen to their calls he should be sick.


I feel like if they were just more mature about dealing with Elementz they could have ended up with a much better situation. Let Elementz know right away that you wanted to try out Doublelift, and that he and Doublelift would be splitting scrims for awhile. That way they could see how Chauster does on support, and what kind of chemistry they have with Doublelift. This would also motivate Elementz to work on his support and up his game. I don't really blame Elementz for not playing enough support, he was told that he was going to play top, and he was practicing the shit out of Yorick, Renekton, and Vayne.

I think now CLG is stuck gambling that Chauster is going to be good at support (watching him today with missy doesn't give me much hope) and that Doublelift isn't going to continue being terrible at positioning and constant overextending. I honestly think that CLG has not gotten stronger by adding Doublelift. Maybe CLG should try mending some bridges, so they have a fallback in case the Doublelift experiment doesn't work out.

I bet they are secretly going to sign loci.
locodoco
Profile Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1615 Posts
November 25 2011 07:05 GMT
#2246
any1 a fan of intotherain?
i wish riot would give me better ping
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
November 25 2011 07:12 GMT
#2247
On November 25 2011 15:09 LoCicero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2011 15:06 dnastyx wrote:
On November 25 2011 15:04 LoCicero wrote:
Man, I have missed Windrunner so much. I've been massing WR games in dota2 lololol. Sorry LoL.


LoCi come carry me in DOTA 2 :3


Sure, what's your steam? (PM me)


Can I play with you too?
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
nyxnyxnyx
Profile Joined April 2010
Indonesia2978 Posts
November 25 2011 07:23 GMT
#2248
wait wtf startale is an actual pro team?
cool beans
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-25 07:24:25
November 25 2011 07:23 GMT
#2249
On November 25 2011 16:05 locodoco wrote:
any1 a fan of intotherain?

as in the former starcraft player?

edit:
On November 25 2011 16:23 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
wait wtf startale is an actual pro team?

yes
Translator:3
locodoco
Profile Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1615 Posts
November 25 2011 07:27 GMT
#2250
On November 25 2011 16:23 infinitestory wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2011 16:05 locodoco wrote:
any1 a fan of intotherain?

as in the former starcraft player?

edit:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2011 16:23 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
wait wtf startale is an actual pro team?

yes

yes the han bang toss
mig intotherain is actually the real deal
he buys us lunch every wensday :D
i wish riot would give me better ping
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
November 25 2011 07:30 GMT
#2251
On November 25 2011 16:23 infinitestory wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2011 16:05 locodoco wrote:
any1 a fan of intotherain?

as in the former starcraft player?

edit:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2011 16:23 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
wait wtf startale is an actual pro team?

yes

ryu was on my team in soloq today. i tell him to first pick me soraka and i carry his ass gg.
GANDHISAUCE
nyxnyxnyx
Profile Joined April 2010
Indonesia2978 Posts
November 25 2011 07:42 GMT
#2252
startale joker was rly bad when i met him once in solo q
TIL he is actually supposed to be good
cool beans
locodoco
Profile Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1615 Posts
November 25 2011 07:46 GMT
#2253
On November 25 2011 16:42 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
startale joker was rly bad when i met him once in solo q
TIL he is actually supposed to be good

every1 from startale comes from chaos(a korean dota clone) they been playing lol for 2 months i dont know why u think thier suppose to be good
i wish riot would give me better ping
Nehsb
Profile Joined May 2009
United States380 Posts
November 25 2011 07:49 GMT
#2254
o_O I played with MiG IntoTheRain in a solo queue game today, didn't know he was the actual IntoTheRain.
nyxnyxnyx
Profile Joined April 2010
Indonesia2978 Posts
November 25 2011 07:55 GMT
#2255
ok that explains y they so bad then
cool beans
Happy Frog
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia490 Posts
November 25 2011 08:31 GMT
#2256
Doublelift has started using flat AD reds on AD carries, supposedly because Sydtko mathcrafted that they were better than Arp (post mastery change?).

Can't find the source though. Wish I was better at maths.

infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
November 25 2011 09:15 GMT
#2257
On November 25 2011 17:31 Happy Frog wrote:
Doublelift has started using flat AD reds on AD carries, supposedly because Sydtko mathcrafted that they were better than Arp (post mastery change?).

Can't find the source though. Wish I was better at maths.


Ok, I figured I'd check this out.

Let's say Cait vs Cait as an example, and compare autoattack strengths. I'll assume Arpen quints for now, and that the enemy will run Armor yellows. Boots/3 start. Basically, the most useful AD runes could possibly be.
AD: 50 (+3)
Arpen: Assuming 3 Sunder, 16 + 10%
Opponent Armor: 25.69 (+3.5)

9 AD reds = 8.55 AD gives an autoattack damage of 52.33 at level 1
9 Arp reds = 14.94 Arp gives an autoattack damage of 50.80 at level 1

Not a huge difference, but yes at level 1 AD reds are better. Now let's say we're level 9 with a BF sword. The Arp outperforms the AD by 3.2 per autoattack.

I'm sticking with my Arpen.
Translator:3
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
November 25 2011 09:25 GMT
#2258
So apparently it's gotten out that rammus is "op" so everyone wants to jungle with him. And then they suck with him. Has fotm ever been for a jungler?
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
November 25 2011 09:27 GMT
#2259
On November 25 2011 16:05 locodoco wrote:
any1 a fan of intotherain?


I'm a huge fan, he was probably my favorite toss from back in the day.
Niton
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2395 Posts
November 25 2011 09:28 GMT
#2260
AD Runes are better at hitting minions, APen Runes are better at hitting champions. If you're not great at last hitting, the extra leeway will do more for your early game than anything APen could do for it.
tree.hugger: Coming off of [(T)fantasy v. (T)Really] into [(T)Barracks v. (T)MVP] is like coming out of Manhattan into New Jersey. You just have to speed up and ignore it.
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