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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
On November 25 2011 13:22 overt wrote:
Hotshot, Chauster, and jiji are all original CLG members. Hell the whole team started around jiji's pre-made back in beta. There's no way any of those three are ever getting benched. And to what someone said earlier about Ele being kicked out, he was simply benched. I wouldn't be surprised if Doublelift leaves CLG again.
This is sort of true but sort of wrong. Yes Hotshot, Chauster, and Jiji are all original CLG members. No the whole team didn't start around Jiji's pre-made back in beta. As a matter of fact hotshot was one of the strongest critics of Jiji's premade and regularly tried to gather people up to try and snipe him. His feelings towards Jiji were perfectly reasonable since it was retarded to solo que back then while Jiji was an hour deep into que with 4 other solid players. Him, Snowflake, and Finkill made getting games impossible.
CLG's origin came out of Hotshot and co joining up with Jiji and co to form the undeniably strongest team in the beginning of Season 1. Personally I felt it was a copout but it was also perfectly reasonable on their part since it maximized their chances of winning. On the other hand, Elementz's addition to CLG was odd. From what I heard (mainly from TSM's POV) in the beginning of the first WCG Elementz just up and quit TSM to join CLG because he felt 'they had a better chance' and because LilBallz wouldn't be able to play in the finals.
Personally I don't have an opinion on these changes (mainly because I don't know who Doublelift is) but just wanted to point out some oldschool LoL history.
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On November 25 2011 13:31 dnastyx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 13:09 rigwarl wrote:
Do we still have a separate LoL Drama thread or am I going to have to read like 10 posts about Elementz every time I visit this thread =( We used to, and then it got closed because I called people out on being sexists and it got derailed.
That's because Rhavanna is biologically programmed to not want to do me b/c she's dating Ipp 
BP forever alone. On the bench. Like Elementz. :'(
(see i somehow tied it back on topic)
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It will be kind of hard for Elementz to ever fully commit to CLG again when they treat him like this, even if he's only "benched". He might stick around due to lack of offers, although there's practically no supports with his experience so I wouldn't be surprised to see him picked up by another team. Even if he doesn't play perfect I'm sure he'll do as good as if not better than the part-time support players we see a lot of teams using. If you wan't someone to stick around as a backup you really have to be nice and open to them about it because it's guarenteed to make them not feel good unless they have basically quit/resigned themself to the position already.
Doublelift has basically hopped teams constantly for the past 6 months and while he makes big plays in solo queue it's hard to say how well he's going to do in competitive play. To me it's a big risk to take him on board just in terms of team stability. I also think if they were going to make a change then they should have recruited someone to play mid since the problem they've had is that the other top teams really have more dynamic playmakers mid that can just potentially dominate the game. Jiji's worst is better than his counterparts worst, but his best is just not on their level atm, and we really haven't seen him do well branching out to the AP's people play nowadays.
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I kind of just want to see Doublelift play support Blitzcrank. I miss those times back when that was the only thing he played.
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@redtooth, yeah saying the "whole team" wasn't accurate at all. My bad.
On November 25 2011 13:35 rob.au wrote:
Doublelift has basically hopped teams constantly for the past 6 months and while he makes big plays in solo queue it's hard to say how well he's going to do in competitive play. To me it's a big risk to take him on board just in terms of team stability. I also think if they were going to make a change then they should have recruited someone to play mid since the problem they've had is that the other top teams really have more dynamic playmakers mid that can just potentially dominate the game. Jiji's worst is better than his counterparts worst, but his best is just not on their level atm, and we really haven't seen him do well branching out to the AP's people play nowadays.
Him quitting teams as often as he does is the main reason I'm not sure of the switch. I do think he's better than Ele but I dunno how long he'll stick around CLG. Especially since him and Hotshot don't get along.
Jiji's champs that he's god mode on are impressive. The problem is that all of those champs have gotten nerfed or fallen out of favor and CLG wasn't picking them for him (and in some cases his champs were perma banned). Anivia comes to mind as does Orianna. His main issue is his passive laning, which I actually think can work but lately he's been making mistakes in lane phase that he never used to make. If you're gonna play a passive lane you have to take advantage of when your opponent plays too aggressive and you can't get yourself ganked ever. He also doesn't take good trades in lane which I think stems from his passive laning. He used to play passive when he was god tier and routinely beat aggressive laners with his passive style he just didn't make the same mistakes he makes now.
I don't agree with the sentiment that he's not expanding to new champs as well as others. Of the four most recent APs he was god mode on two of them (Rumble, Orianna) which is interesting because no other big name APs were playing Rumble ever in NA. His Brand sucks and I haven't seen his Xerath cause he's been playing AD since his release. I think his problem is still mostly just that he makes horrible mistakes for unknown reasons. It could be as Elementz theorized that he's under pressure from CLG's egos and attitudes, I don't really know.
edit:
As for current fotm, he's been playing AD a lot lately so idk how he is on current fotm AP carries but it's not like the current fotm is hard.
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inb4 Elementz beats Chauster WCG Korea. lol.
The main problem I have with all of this is, why the hell would you want doublelift on your team. He is the nicest streamer in terms of explaining what he does and talking to people, so I like him, but I don't think he's that good of a player. He is supposedly really good mechanically, but the last time I saw him lane against Chaox it was a brutal beating.
My opinion is that if you're putting the best player on your team support (Chauster), making your worst player mid (Jiji), making team decisions without the entire team (kicking out Elementz), picking up team hoppers (Doublelift), and have internal problems that have never been fixed (Hotshot and Saint). Then you will not be a good team.
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I dunno, elementz response makes a ton of sense to me, it always seems like their real problem is that they have too many big egos on that team. All they do when things go wrong is yell at each other and try and find someone to blame which is exactly what elementz is saying.
That's not to say that the criticism that elementz doesn't practice enough isn't true. It's a major problem if one member of the team isn't putting in the work that the other 4 are.
I just fail to see how adding doublelift makes CLG better. I mean... it's doublelift, how many teams has he played for in the last 6 months, 3? There's a reason he can't hold down a roster spot anywhere. This just stinks like Chauster, jiji, and hotshot with their gigantic egos had some kind of clandestine plan to get rid of elementz, because somehow it makes a twisted kind of sense to them that because he doesn't yell back at them loud enough he deserves to go.
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On November 25 2011 14:15 Lancer723 wrote:
I just fail to see how adding doublelift makes CLG better. I mean... it's doublelift, how many teams has he played for in the last 6 months, 3? There's a reason he can't hold down a roster spot anywhere. This just stinks like Chauster, jiji, and hotshot with their gigantic egos had some kind of clandestine plan to get rid of elementz, because somehow it makes a twisted kind of sense to them that because he doesn't yell back at them loud enough he deserves to go.
While I am worried about Doublelift's team hopping to be fair he didn't have a starter spot on CLG and I think partially left due to disagreements with Hotshot. EG made him and Dyrus play either support or their niche champions which really wasn't good for the team and Doublelift didn't want to play exclusively support. I think he likely would've been kicked out of EG if he didn't leave when he did. As for Curse, without Lapaka they've gone south and he got an offer from one of the top NA teams. My biggest concern is if he has disagreements with Hotshot again or if CLG doesn't do so hot at first he might jump ship again.
Basically, I think he had at least semi-decent reasons for leaving the teams that he's left.
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wow, GD is blowing up over CLG. threads calling them scumbags and saying adblock CLG have 50+ thumbsup
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On November 25 2011 14:35 Shiragaku wrote:
GD?
General Discussion
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On November 25 2011 14:20 hyptonic wrote:
wow, GD is blowing up over CLG. threads calling them scumbags and saying adblock CLG have 50+ thumbsup
Purposefully adblocking CLG is such a trash move (and likely to be of miniscule effect anyway) it says something poor about you if that's your response. If you want to deprive them of income then just don't go to their site for goodness' sake. It's an unprincipled action to say 'you don't deserve my adviews' while acting as if you are somehow entitled to the content anyway.
I know it's small potatoes in the scheme of things, but I would be disgusted with who I was as a person if I saw it manifesting itself in ways such as these. These are signs of poor character.
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LoL's general discussion has the quality of the blizzard forum.
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As much as I hate to talk about anything other than CLG, elementz, doublelift whatever.
But what do you think Udyr needs most in his new passive? Maybe +1 Defence and M.Defence for each stack?
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Wow, I hope I remember never to go to GD again. Real bad.
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Man, I have missed Windrunner so much. I've been massing WR games in dota2 lololol. Sorry LoL.
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On November 25 2011 15:04 LoCicero wrote:
Man, I have missed Windrunner so much. I've been massing WR games in dota2 lololol. Sorry LoL.
LoCi come carry me in DOTA 2 :3
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On November 25 2011 15:04 LoCicero wrote:
Man, I have missed Windrunner so much. I've been massing WR games in dota2 lololol. Sorry LoL. you and me both. Windrunner is by far my favourite dota hero. After the Gambler.
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On November 25 2011 15:06 dnastyx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 15:04 LoCicero wrote:
Man, I have missed Windrunner so much. I've been massing WR games in dota2 lololol. Sorry LoL. LoCi come carry me in DOTA 2 :3
Sure, what's your steam? (PM me)
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i think CLG handled the situation badly, if there was more real clear criticisms and how to improve - kind of effort put in (yes, they did say you suck elementz go practice more, but not detailed "you're lacking aggressive play at these stages, need to work on these comboes, stop playing overly aggressive at XYZ, etc." criticism that is more productive and clearer to the party being explained to the extent and depth of these flaws) then perhaps this wouldn't be as out of the blue as elementz seems to be making this seem.
that being said, elementz has been the weakest link on CLG for a very long time, even jiji's "slump" doesn't prevent him from doing well. he just isn't as consistently farmed and never dying as he used to be. elementz as a solo was extremely underwhelming compared to chauster / jiji when he and hotshot primarily played bottom, and even recently when hotshot was playing support his tops were fairly lacking. if you watch him play, he'll take obvious good trades, but he gets baited more often than the other CLG members and is mechanically lacking in comparison (more missed skillshots, worse map awareness, bad decision making in comparison) which makes it such that he's weaker than hotshot in top, jiji and chauster in mid, and probably as an AD as well (missing cs hurts d00d). he got shuffled over into the support role for this reason, as we all remember his annie play at dreamhack, when he was in a high pressure situation he couldn't deliver and his confidence was crushed as a result.
i think elementz, while probably not as egotistical as some of his teammates, is also having a couple of problems with seeing his play through rose-colored glasses. he views in retrospect his games with chauster as "never having lost lane, and having won sometimes." but when your AD carry is behind 20 cs and a kill or assist or two in the majority of games, that IS having lost lane. losing lane doesn't entail that chauster has to die, being behind on gold is obviously being behind, but if elementz can't view this in retrospect or at the time as a negative thing, that is in and of itself a big barrier to improvement.
this game, like many others, means different things to different people. to newcomers and strangers to BW, they see an old game with old graphics about aliens. but to BW fans, we have a history of pros and a greater knowledge of what makes the game one of finesse. even to a BW fan, the selling and trading of players may be seen as a dick move, but the teams pay money to win.
people may consider this a betrayal, but in the end to CLG winning is essential as a pro team. they haven't been getting the results that they believe they can get, and they are trying something to fix this. i don't believe they handled the first preliminary step or two correctly, but in the end i see their reasoning and agree with it.
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EPT
