EPTpromote(4)
deep shift(7)
scryer(13)
resonation(16)
rewind(200
Otherwise all his pickrates are around 17%+, which says to me this character is very fluid in his approach to builds.
Quick Talent Builds - Page 7
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
promote(4) deep shift(7) scryer(13) resonation(16) rewind(200 Otherwise all his pickrates are around 17%+, which says to me this character is very fluid in his approach to builds. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On October 28 2015 00:41 MotherFox wrote: though thinking on it, proposing one or two builds for tassadar is tough since so many of his skills are both very good and also situational. Like leeching plasma is obviously not a must-take every game, and shrink ray certainly isn't always useful. But they are extremely good skills in the right circumstances. It's actually easier to point out skills that most people rarely take: promote(4) deep shift(7) scryer(13) resonation(16) rewind(200 Otherwise all his pickrates are around 17%+, which says to me this character is very fluid in his approach to builds. That's because those talents are just bad keke. Except for Deep Shift, which in combination with his 13 and 16 E talents make him nigh unkillable. I'll sometimes run Deep Shift if we need more of a tanky team and then I'll just stand at the front of the fight to soak up some damage. Promote is useless after it was nerfed way back when. Scryer is straight up bad. Resonation doesn't last long enough. Rewind is pretty much useless on Tassadar (unless you run the full E combo and just play full tank Tassadar keke). As for your Haunted Mines build, I mostly agree except that I think it's a mistake to run Archon without Static Charge now; the damage is too low for you to reliably help out in team fights without it. I also just always go Leeching Plasma because it's awesome for everyone on your team (or Mental Acuity if needed). But yeah, Reinforce Structure and MULE on Haunted Mines all the way  . | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On October 28 2015 08:01 MotherFox wrote: I mostly go for archon because I am not great at getting useful force walls on haunted mines. The ult really requires you have pre-planned areas of each map to take advantage of it--- it's great on battlefield of eternity, for instance, because it's good in almost every location on the map :D Nah, you just gotta have a good eye for how to funnel people into things. I have a lot of experience playing Protoss in SC2, so I'm pretty good at using force fields to break things up and kill Zergs pretty hard. You can either use it to separate a squishy target from the rest of the team so that your team can wail on them or you can similarly cut the back line off from a diving bruiser so that you can deal with said tank a bit easier. It's also great for controlling space if you need to retreat or buy a bit of time for an objective. Even if you don't completely block an area, Force Wall can still be really effective if you get the right angle and funnel people into your tanks or force them to walk around in a direction they don't want to walk. I love Force Wall to death, and I think it's one of the most game-changing ultimates in the game for players who know how to use it well. | ||
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Aceace
Turkey1305 Posts
Generally I use: Invigoration Cheap Shot (You use Flail Axe) Abattoir (You use Brutal Strike) Furnace Blast Crave Flesh Blood Frenzy Nexus Blades talents for roaming. Basicly having a cheap shot instead of flail axe gives your hamstring %100 more damage at level 20. (thx to 1 second slow from Blades) Before 20 your first Hamstring after Charge always deals %100. It seems like a Win-Win situation. I don't understand the reason going for some aoe instead of double damage. Also having Brutal Strike instead of Abattoir seems a waste in the long run. %10 damage + %10 attack speed (Butcher have 1.5 aps at max meat) instead of %50 damage for every 3 seconds seems low. I didn't calculate exact numbers Maybe i am wrong but if you can clear it for me i would be grateful. | ||
Valiver
Caldeum1977 Posts
I agree with Abattoir though, it probably is better than Brutal Strike and I'll change that. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 29 2015 07:41 Aceace wrote: Hey John. Thank you so much for keeping talent builds updated. I have a question about Butcher build. Generally I use: Invigoration Cheap Shot (You use Flail Axe) Abattoir (You use Brutal Strike) Furnace Blast Crave Flesh Blood Frenzy Nexus Blades talents for roaming. Basicly having a cheap shot instead of flail axe gives your hamstring %100 more damage at level 20. (thx to 1 second slow from Blades) Before 20 your first Hamstring after Charge always deals %100. It seems like a Win-Win situation. I don't understand the reason going for some aoe instead of double damage. Also having Brutal Strike instead of Abattoir seems a waste in the long run. %10 damage + %10 attack speed (Butcher have 1.5 aps at max meat) instead of %50 damage for every 3 seconds seems low. I didn't calculate exact numbers Maybe i am wrong but if you can clear it for me i would be grateful.Cheap Shot is a really bad talent, Hamstring does pitiful damage and 100% of 0 is still 0 lol(not really the case but you get the point), it is mostly used for slow and refresh for your auto-attack. If you want more damage from your level 4 talent then get Envenom instead. Flail Axe or reduced cooldown on Charge gives you a lot more utility. Both Brutal Strike and Abattoir are great talents but I still pick Brutal Strike most of the time, especially if you go with Invigoration at level 1 which means you will be hitting Hamstring more often. The thing you are missing is that most of the time you will be able to Charge, hit Hamstring and auto-attack 2-3 times and then get stunned, slowed, rooted, kited in which case Brutal Strike is better talent choice. Especially if you are going for Furnace Blast, meaning that you want to burst the target down as fast as possible, Brutal Strike is a lot better. You won't be able to take advantage of Abattoir in those situations, and if you are taking it Lamb to the Slaughter is probably a better heroic. | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
Trace's build for Murky (in case someone wants to put it in the guide): 1. Block 4. Envenom (not living the dream, go read the maths section 3.1 of his guide) 7. Slime Advantage 10. Octograb 13. Continuous Slime 16. Blood for Blood 20. And a Shark too Keep in mind this build is a PVP build. I guess you can build Murky for PVE with other talents, but you won't have as much fun. ;-) | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On November 03 2015 23:31 Leolio wrote: 4. Envenom (not living the dream, go read the maths section 3.1 of his guide) This part of his guide seems to only apply to 1v1 situations. It's also kind of funny that he criticizes pufferfish builds for only being useful in team fights every 60 seconds for octograb, but overlooks envenom's cooldown being its downside in relation to living the dream. I've tried the chrizplosion bubble build I mentioned earlier--- block/living the dream/slim advantage/octo/bubble/bubble/shark. I like it quite a bit since it gives good 1v1, good team fight presence, and good wave clear all at once. Sliming the entire enemy team becomes very possible in congested team fights, which you survive thanks to those bubble talents. Since switching to it I've found myself wondering what the exact advantage of the straight pufferfish build is exactly. Murky is naturally a very strong pusher, and the pufferfish zoning doesn't really do very much in teamfights, so I do think the 7/13/16 talents need to go towards slime or bubbles in some way. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 04 2015 02:19 MotherFox wrote: This part of his guide seems to only apply to 1v1 situations. It's also kind of funny that he criticizes pufferfish builds for only being useful in team fights every 60 seconds for octograb, but overlooks envenom's cooldown being its downside in relation to living the dream. I've tried the chrizplosion bubble build I mentioned earlier--- block/living the dream/slim advantage/octo/bubble/bubble/shark. I like it quite a bit since it gives good 1v1, good team fight presence, and good wave clear all at once. Sliming the entire enemy team becomes very possible in congested team fights, which you survive thanks to those bubble talents. Since switching to it I've found myself wondering what the exact advantage of the straight pufferfish build is exactly. Murky is naturally a very strong pusher, and the pufferfish zoning doesn't really do very much in teamfights, so I do think the 7/13/16 talents need to go towards slime or bubbles in some way. Point is, with his build he takes few Slime talents and most of his damage comes from Slime. Even if he doesn't have Envenom he is useful. On the other hand if you go for Pufferfish build with Living the Dream, you are almost useless without Octograb at high level of play. Bubble builds are the most popular ones at the top and pro level. You want to be really annoying, stay in the fight as much as possible and do a lot of damage with Slime. iDream from Cloud 9 even uses level 4 Slime talent that increases its AoE. I've tried it and it feels pretty good. | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
Most of Trace's maths put envenom vs living the dream and envenom really has better numbers. On a "fighting" build it seems better. On a pushing build living the dream should be better. TBH people are more cautious around Murky so you don't get free kills that often anymore that's why I want more options. I have bubble builds to test it seems! But I still think Trace's build should be listed here. ;-) | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Valiver
Caldeum1977 Posts
On November 14 2015 03:21 Ej_ wrote: Isn't it the time already to switch the standard BW build to triple Z? Also probably worth to mention Rewind at 20. Yeah I'll rename the Standard build to Healing build or something and put Phase Shift above it so there's no mistake Phase Shift is better. I'm not too sold on Rewind though. It doesn't reset Phase Shift, and doesn't help her heal at all, only be aggressive, while Storm Shield is a very important defensive tool and is one of the only panic buttons BW can get. Also can someone link me that math behind the Murky build by whoever this Trace is? I'm completely baffled how envenom can possibly be better than Living the Dream. I do think I need to add a Slime build for Murky though. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On November 14 2015 03:46 Valiver wrote: Yeah I'll rename the Standard build to Healing build or something and put Phase Shift above it so there's no mistake Phase Shift is better. I'm not too sold on Rewind though. It doesn't reset Phase Shift, and doesn't help her heal at all, only be aggressive, while Storm Shield is a very important defensive tool and is one of the only panic buttons BW can get. Also can someone link me that math behind the Murky build by whoever this Trace is? I'm completely baffled how envenom can possibly be better than Living the Dream. I do think I need to add a Slime build for Murky though. I always go for Storm Shield in HL for the burst, but pros play BW with Tassadar and then Rewind becomes a viable option for the extended polimorph. C9 played a lot like that at Blizzcon. | ||
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Valiver
Caldeum1977 Posts
On November 14 2015 04:03 Ej_ wrote: I always go for Storm Shield in HL for the burst, but pros play BW with Tassadar and then Rewind becomes a viable option for the extended polimorph. C9 played a lot like that at Blizzcon. That is true that with another support Rewind definitely becomes a good option (double Poly OP), but the majority of the time Storm Shield is much better. Anyone playing near the pro level can make their own decisions | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 14 2015 03:46 Valiver wrote: Yeah I'll rename the Standard build to Healing build or something and put Phase Shift above it so there's no mistake Phase Shift is better. I'm not too sold on Rewind though. It doesn't reset Phase Shift, and doesn't help her heal at all, only be aggressive, while Storm Shield is a very important defensive tool and is one of the only panic buttons BW can get. Also can someone link me that math behind the Murky build by whoever this Trace is? I'm completely baffled how envenom can possibly be better than Living the Dream. I do think I need to add a Slime build for Murky though. Trace is going for Envenom at level 4, Slime Advantage at level 7, Continuous Slime at level 13 and Blood for Blood at level 16. He is building a fighting Murky that doesn't push much but is trying to go for 1v1 fights and bait people into them as much as possible, and he can pretty much solo kill 70-80% of the heroes at level 16 with Blood for Blood(and squishy heroes even earlier because of Envenom). I am playing that build from time to time and if you know what you are doing it is really fun and catches people off guard most of the time. Here is his guide, it is a bit long though: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/guide/indepth-murky-guide-by-rank-1-murky-main-80-murky-winrate-artanis-patch-return-of-the-king-daily-murky-videos-4217 | ||
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Atoissen
Norway1737 Posts
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Scarecr0w
2 Posts
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
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Valiver
Caldeum1977 Posts
On November 26 2015 22:31 MotherFox wrote: soul steal on diablo has the wrong overtext Wow do you know when they changed that? It's not in any of the patch notes from the last 2 patches at least o.o | ||
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