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Mike Morhaime founds new gaming company - Page 5

Forum Index > General Forum
116 CommentsPost a Reply
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dUTtrOACh
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2339 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-26 21:31:57
September 26 2020 21:31 GMT
#81
Classic business strat. Make big company. Sell to bigger company. Make new company with potential to be big enough to be worth buying.

Well played, M.M.
twitch.tv/duttroach
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-27 00:46:25
September 27 2020 00:45 GMT
#82
On September 24 2020 02:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2020 01:44 Zambrah wrote:
Dev teams wouldnt fuck up so much if they weren't made to work way too long hours to hit asinine deadlines.

before ATVI , Blizzard had all kinds of crazy messed up deadlines and processes. Its part of what inspired the name "Blizzard" because the place was total chaos.

i seem to recall Bob Fitch getting locked in a room for 6 weeks to build the engine for SC1. Software projects go awry all the time. My best customer has a service called "Project Rescue". She sends me on these crazy assignments working on projects that have failed 3+ times and have been going on for 5+ years. That is the way the entire industry is. Its not like video games are some special case.



"we were no where near the home stretch". crunch lasted 8 months.

I love doing the hermit coder 24/7 thing. its a blast. its also clear Bob Fitch loved it as well. When the project is a success... you gain legend status.

In conclusion, Blizzard had all kinds of issues before ATVI took over. Bungie also jettisoned ATVI and kept their Destiny franchise. Has Destiny2 gotten much better without ATVI? I'd say its a little bit better. But its not some dramatic night-and-day improvement.


I think Fitch locked himself in that room, he was so frustrated with the (modified?) war2 engine they were using he said this isn't working for what you want to do let me write a whole new engine for this okay then he went and did it like a boss
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 27 2020 16:42 GMT
#83
On September 25 2020 23:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
How quickly memories forget. Wasn't Dustin Browder responsible for the travesty of the boring gameplay of the protoss deathball as derived from the power of the Colossus (it's so cool, lasers! war of the worlds! Splash in a line to kill infinite marines!), unfun game mechanics like forcefields, and the utter defensiveness of Zerg gameplay (Zerg having to be extremely cost inefficient in the intial stages of the game with barely any strong micro effects) and tiny tiny maps, as apparently according to Dustin Browder people don't have the attention spans to play longer than 10 mins or to appreciate longer games.

"Terrible terrible damage." What terrible terrible words. For who needs to give all three races the tools to thrive on different maps styles and develop the gameplay in their preferred playstyle, if you can just give them terrible terrible damage.

It's really, really reductive to attribute things like this to one person. Being the lead designer on a game with a large dev team like SC2 is rarely going to mean that you directly control particular aspects of gameplay like this.
Moderator
misominja
Profile Joined July 2020
11 Posts
September 27 2020 21:30 GMT
#84
--- Nuked ---
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
September 27 2020 23:54 GMT
#85
On September 26 2020 06:18 Sigh1022 wrote:
yoooo this is GREAT news. Browder was such a boss, glad to see him on board.


Not sure why so many people love him around the RTS scene. All of his games including C&C had bad game design to me. -_-
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6916 Posts
September 28 2020 07:06 GMT
#86
On September 28 2020 08:54 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2020 06:18 Sigh1022 wrote:
yoooo this is GREAT news. Browder was such a boss, glad to see him on board.


Not sure why so many people love him around the RTS scene. All of his games including C&C had bad game design to me. -_-


And yet somehow everything he touches has now legend status. Strange
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
followZeRoX
Profile Joined March 2011
Serbia1449 Posts
September 28 2020 14:55 GMT
#87
On September 28 2020 16:06 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2020 08:54 StarStruck wrote:
On September 26 2020 06:18 Sigh1022 wrote:
yoooo this is GREAT news. Browder was such a boss, glad to see him on board.


Not sure why so many people love him around the RTS scene. All of his games including C&C had bad game design to me. -_-


And yet somehow everything he touches has now legend status. Strange


And yet somehow game wasn't nearly balanced ever as now (racially) since he left SC2 team. Strange.
dUTtrOACh
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2339 Posts
September 28 2020 15:08 GMT
#88
On September 28 2020 23:55 followZeRoX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2020 16:06 Harris1st wrote:
On September 28 2020 08:54 StarStruck wrote:
On September 26 2020 06:18 Sigh1022 wrote:
yoooo this is GREAT news. Browder was such a boss, glad to see him on board.


Not sure why so many people love him around the RTS scene. All of his games including C&C had bad game design to me. -_-


And yet somehow everything he touches has now legend status. Strange


And yet somehow game wasn't nearly balanced ever as now (racially) since he left SC2 team. Strange.


In his defense, he wasn't heading the balance team. To steal from his credibility, Command & Conquer would be easy as shit to balance.
twitch.tv/duttroach
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16695 Posts
September 28 2020 15:39 GMT
#89
How much of C&C was Browder involved in? He was gone by the time C&C3 , RA3 and C&C4 were being made.

He was lead designer of RA2.
i don't think RA2 is an "easy to balance" game. too much racial diversity for easy balancing.
https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Red_Alert_2_Soviet_Arsenal

RA2 had a thin tight rope to walk. Keep the RA1 fans happy while advancing the game forward. Browder pulled it off. RA2 is great.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-28 15:47:44
September 28 2020 15:46 GMT
#90
On September 28 2020 01:42 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2020 23:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
How quickly memories forget. Wasn't Dustin Browder responsible for the travesty of the boring gameplay of the protoss deathball as derived from the power of the Colossus (it's so cool, lasers! war of the worlds! Splash in a line to kill infinite marines!), unfun game mechanics like forcefields, and the utter defensiveness of Zerg gameplay (Zerg having to be extremely cost inefficient in the intial stages of the game with barely any strong micro effects) and tiny tiny maps, as apparently according to Dustin Browder people don't have the attention spans to play longer than 10 mins or to appreciate longer games.

"Terrible terrible damage." What terrible terrible words. For who needs to give all three races the tools to thrive on different maps styles and develop the gameplay in their preferred playstyle, if you can just give them terrible terrible damage.

It's really, really reductive to attribute things like this to one person. Being the lead designer on a game with a large dev team like SC2 is rarely going to mean that you directly control particular aspects of gameplay like this.

These were things he literally said as his personal design choices or alluded to in many many interviews written or spoken. Especially colossus design, Zerg design and map size.
KobraKay
Profile Joined March 2010
Portugal4231 Posts
September 28 2020 16:42 GMT
#91
On September 28 2020 16:06 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2020 08:54 StarStruck wrote:
On September 26 2020 06:18 Sigh1022 wrote:
yoooo this is GREAT news. Browder was such a boss, glad to see him on board.


Not sure why so many people love him around the RTS scene. All of his games including C&C had bad game design to me. -_-


And yet somehow everything he touches has now legend status. Strange


That must be some form of sarcasm that I am missing.
CJ Fighting! (--.--)
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
September 28 2020 16:45 GMT
#92
On September 29 2020 00:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
How much of C&C was Browder involved in? He was gone by the time C&C3 , RA3 and C&C4 were being made.

He was lead designer of RA2.
i don't think RA2 is an "easy to balance" game. too much racial diversity for easy balancing.
https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Red_Alert_2_Soviet_Arsenal

RA2 had a thin tight rope to walk. Keep the RA1 fans happy while advancing the game forward. Browder pulled it off. RA2 is great.

I believe he was at EA for RA2, Generals (and Zero Hour), and Battle for Middle Earth 1. I consider RA2 to have the best gameplay of the classic C&C games. Generals was controversial as an outlier in the C&C series, but I thought it had fairly robust gameplay and a thriving modding scene. BFME1 purposely simplified and streamlined a lot of stuff like base-building, but I thought it was still an enjoyable use of the setting, and Halo Wars would later use a similar system of base-building.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6916 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-29 07:30:06
September 29 2020 07:28 GMT
#93
On September 28 2020 23:55 followZeRoX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2020 16:06 Harris1st wrote:
On September 28 2020 08:54 StarStruck wrote:
On September 26 2020 06:18 Sigh1022 wrote:
yoooo this is GREAT news. Browder was such a boss, glad to see him on board.


Not sure why so many people love him around the RTS scene. All of his games including C&C had bad game design to me. -_-


And yet somehow everything he touches has now legend status. Strange


And yet somehow game wasn't nearly balanced ever as now (racially) since he left SC2 team. Strange.


What does one have to do with the other? Starcraft 2 is a great game, so is RA2 and so is HotS. No idea why you are hating so much on Browder

On September 29 2020 01:42 KobraKay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2020 16:06 Harris1st wrote:
On September 28 2020 08:54 StarStruck wrote:
On September 26 2020 06:18 Sigh1022 wrote:
yoooo this is GREAT news. Browder was such a boss, glad to see him on board.


Not sure why so many people love him around the RTS scene. All of his games including C&C had bad game design to me. -_-


And yet somehow everything he touches has now legend status. Strange


That must be some form of sarcasm that I am missing.


Why is that?
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2550 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-29 07:54:31
September 29 2020 07:53 GMT
#94
I'm super in for Browder being involved in RTS development. RA2 is a hell of a game. The asterisk beside this is if this studio is attempting to develop a competitive, ladder-focussed RTS, I don't know that Browder is the dude for it.

I also, at this point, would hope for something that pushes the idea of co-op commander or They Are Billions, rather than challenging BW or AoE2 as the beloved competitive RTS pvp games.

Gimme fun, co-op pve RTS. I feel like Browder would be a fantastic asset for such a thing.

...all of this, of course, assumes they make an RTS at all
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16695 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-29 12:51:46
September 29 2020 12:17 GMT
#95
it is interesting to note that "co op" campaign missions first became a thing with RA3's co-op campaign. many of the devs behind that ended up at Blizzard for SC2 a few years later. THen, a few years later.. SC2 got a co op mode. Competition between top RTS dev studio ends up producing better games.

Browder is a great example of why competition amongst studios is good. He moved up in the world... going from the #3 RTS franchise to the #1/#2 RTS game franchises.

Its kinda funny hearing fans vocally criticize Browder when its clear the men whose lives revolve around making video games speak with their actions that Browder is a top notch game designer.

Actions speak louder than words.
On September 29 2020 01:45 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2020 00:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
How much of C&C was Browder involved in? He was gone by the time C&C3 , RA3 and C&C4 were being made.

He was lead designer of RA2.
i don't think RA2 is an "easy to balance" game. too much racial diversity for easy balancing.
https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Red_Alert_2_Soviet_Arsenal

RA2 had a thin tight rope to walk. Keep the RA1 fans happy while advancing the game forward. Browder pulled it off. RA2 is great.

I believe he was at EA for RA2, Generals (and Zero Hour), and Battle for Middle Earth 1. I consider RA2 to have the best gameplay of the classic C&C games. Generals was controversial as an outlier in the C&C series, but I thought it had fairly robust gameplay and a thriving modding scene. BFME1 purposely simplified and streamlined a lot of stuff like base-building, but I thought it was still an enjoyable use of the setting, and Halo Wars would later use a similar system of base-building.

just to add to your points. RA2 sold great. More importantly, RA2's long term engagement #s were great. So people didn't just buy the game and quit after the campaign was over. RA2 had long term sustainability.

Thus , by objective metrics, RA2 was a great game.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15678 Posts
September 29 2020 16:35 GMT
#96
On September 29 2020 21:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
it is interesting to note that "co op" campaign missions first became a thing with RA3's co-op campaign. many of the devs behind that ended up at Blizzard for SC2 a few years later. THen, a few years later.. SC2 got a co op mode. Competition between top RTS dev studio ends up producing better games.

Browder is a great example of why competition amongst studios is good. He moved up in the world... going from the #3 RTS franchise to the #1/#2 RTS game franchises.

Its kinda funny hearing fans vocally criticize Browder when its clear the men whose lives revolve around making video games speak with their actions that Browder is a top notch game designer.

Actions speak louder than words.
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2020 01:45 eviltomahawk wrote:
On September 29 2020 00:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
How much of C&C was Browder involved in? He was gone by the time C&C3 , RA3 and C&C4 were being made.

He was lead designer of RA2.
i don't think RA2 is an "easy to balance" game. too much racial diversity for easy balancing.
https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Red_Alert_2_Soviet_Arsenal

RA2 had a thin tight rope to walk. Keep the RA1 fans happy while advancing the game forward. Browder pulled it off. RA2 is great.

I believe he was at EA for RA2, Generals (and Zero Hour), and Battle for Middle Earth 1. I consider RA2 to have the best gameplay of the classic C&C games. Generals was controversial as an outlier in the C&C series, but I thought it had fairly robust gameplay and a thriving modding scene. BFME1 purposely simplified and streamlined a lot of stuff like base-building, but I thought it was still an enjoyable use of the setting, and Halo Wars would later use a similar system of base-building.

just to add to your points. RA2 sold great. More importantly, RA2's long term engagement #s were great. So people didn't just buy the game and quit after the campaign was over. RA2 had long term sustainability.

Thus , by objective metrics, RA2 was a great game.

The idea that a dev has different views than players isn't new. Browder produces notably bad products.
dUTtrOACh
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2339 Posts
September 29 2020 20:27 GMT
#97
To address the comparitive ease of balancing in C&C RA2 vs that of other competitive RTS games (SC1&2, WC3, AoE2), I would say RA2 is still easier to balance.

At its core, the "racial diversity" of C&C RA2 has two factions (Soviet and Ally). Each sub-faction of the two factions has a unique unit or structure, which seeks to imbalance some aspect of the game into their favour and force some alteration by the opponent if used. It's also quite simplistic from an economical standpoint, so there's no need to even consider things that arise from multi-resource RTS games.

In contrast to RA2, a game like Age of Empires 2 has one race (humans), but each civilization has a number of different numerical modifiers, tech tree options and limitations, as well as unique units. Add to that the multiple resources of AoE2 (wood, stone, food, gold), and it becomes quite apparent that the depth of balance is far greater.

SC and others mentioned above have very distinctive races and are multi-resource. They're more likely to be on the upper end of difficulty than the lower end, in terms of balance.

Browder did decent work at Blizzard for a better wage than many of his colleagues. He achieved his status in the industry through his work and has been rewarded with a ticket off of what is beginning to look like a sinking ship. Wouldn't anybody take it?
twitch.tv/duttroach
MrPoopy
Profile Joined July 2020
3 Posts
September 30 2020 11:45 GMT
#98
ايوا الله يعونو مالنا حنا

User was warned for this post.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16695 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-30 14:44:31
September 30 2020 14:42 GMT
#99
On September 30 2020 05:27 dUTtrOACh wrote:
To address the comparitive ease of balancing in C&C RA2 vs that of other competitive RTS games (SC1&2, WC3, AoE2), I would say RA2 is still easier to balance.

At its core, the "racial diversity" of C&C RA2 has two factions (Soviet and Ally). Each sub-faction of the two factions has a unique unit or structure, which seeks to imbalance some aspect of the game into their favour and force some alteration by the opponent if used. It's also quite simplistic from an economical standpoint, so there's no need to even consider things that arise from multi-resource RTS games.

In contrast to RA2, a game like Age of Empires 2 has one race (humans), but each civilization has a number of different numerical modifiers, tech tree options and limitations, as well as unique units. Add to that the multiple resources of AoE2 (wood, stone, food, gold), and it becomes quite apparent that the depth of balance is far greater.

SC and others mentioned above have very distinctive races and are multi-resource. They're more likely to be on the upper end of difficulty than the lower end, in terms of balance.

Browder did decent work at Blizzard for a better wage than many of his colleagues. He achieved his status in the industry through his work and has been rewarded with a ticket off of what is beginning to look like a sinking ship. Wouldn't anybody take it?

and EA put far fewer resources into balancing games after release than Blizzard. Game balancing was essentially out of Browder's hands a few months after the game was released. And Browder knew EA wouldn't put many resources into game balancing.

RA2 came out about the same time as SC64. SC64 featured a 200 mineral academy and fast spawning zerglings. So game balancing was a very different animal in 2000 than it is today.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-30 14:53:07
September 30 2020 14:50 GMT
#100
On September 27 2020 09:45 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2020 02:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On September 24 2020 01:44 Zambrah wrote:
Dev teams wouldnt fuck up so much if they weren't made to work way too long hours to hit asinine deadlines.

before ATVI , Blizzard had all kinds of crazy messed up deadlines and processes. Its part of what inspired the name "Blizzard" because the place was total chaos.

i seem to recall Bob Fitch getting locked in a room for 6 weeks to build the engine for SC1. Software projects go awry all the time. My best customer has a service called "Project Rescue". She sends me on these crazy assignments working on projects that have failed 3+ times and have been going on for 5+ years. That is the way the entire industry is. Its not like video games are some special case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NBhPhDP634#t=33m10s

"we were no where near the home stretch". crunch lasted 8 months.

I love doing the hermit coder 24/7 thing. its a blast. its also clear Bob Fitch loved it as well. When the project is a success... you gain legend status.

In conclusion, Blizzard had all kinds of issues before ATVI took over. Bungie also jettisoned ATVI and kept their Destiny franchise. Has Destiny2 gotten much better without ATVI? I'd say its a little bit better. But its not some dramatic night-and-day improvement.


I think Fitch locked himself in that room, he was so frustrated with the (modified?) war2 engine they were using he said this isn't working for what you want to do let me write a whole new engine for this okay then he went and did it like a boss

They went from remaking games from scratch and scrapping games that looked pretty good (Warcraft adventures & SC : Ghost) to releasing Diablo mobile games and a War3 remake that averaged 0.6/10 in user reviews on metacritic.

Splitting off from blizzard is a damn good move at this time IMO.

Also on Browder possibly making new RTS games : Beggars can't be choosers with the RTS market how it is nowdays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
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