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On August 27 2021 23:00 Salazarz wrote:
Yeah, I don't live in the US so I don't know what it's like there other than based on what looks to me like very biased and 'us vs them'-ish arguments so it's hard to judge. In Korea, vaccination is currently bottlenecked by vaccine availability but most people are in the, 'once I get my second shot I can finally live my life normally again' sort of mindset; there is for sure a huge portion of population who are currently avoiding dining out or going to gyms, clubs, etc until they get their shots done.
I really, really, really don't want to believe that all of the 30%+ of the unvaccinated people in the US are so caught up in the bullshit that they also don't care about masks, social distancing, or whatever else either, but perhaps that's too naive.
I think that might be too naive. Some of them probably fall in some group that doesn't have vaccines recommended for them yet (like for example children), but generally speaking once vaccines are available, there really are no longer a lot of good arguments not to get vaccinated left. This obviously only works once vaccines are indeed available for everyone, before that "I couldn't get vaccinated yet because there are limited doses, and i couldn't get one" is a very valid reason not to be vaccinated.
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On August 27 2021 22:38 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2021 22:19 maybenexttime wrote:On August 27 2021 21:41 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 27 2021 21:23 maybenexttime wrote:On August 27 2021 20:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
By about a month after the mandate was lifted for vaccinated people there was maybe 10-20% of people wearing masks in my experience.
Vaccinated people tend to follow guidelines better than unvaccinated (by choice) people but I find it hard to believe that vaccinated people (as a group) wearing masks less, filling bars/restaurants more, and generally being less careful was unique to my locale. How do you know if most of the people still wearing masks weren't those vaccinated and the anti-vaxxers stopped wearing masks because there's no way for anyone to check their vaccination status? Forums for anti-vaxxers are full of people with that kind of attitude. I just know the vaccination rate was much higher than the mask rate was while the mandate was lifted so I know that a great deal of vaccinated people stopped wearing masks. It's something I noticed more than a month ago and it only got worse until the mandate was finally reinstated (at the state level) this week. Are you talking about being less careful than the unvaccinated people (which is what we're discussing) or compared to their previous behavior (during mask mandates)? Less careful than people that are unvaccinated for not "straight up covid-denying moron" reasons (which are the people I understood Salazarz to be talking about) and themselves under mandates.
But how do you infer how each group changed its behavior from a simple global mask rate?
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Anti-vaxxers are the same people who will ignore guidelines and not wear masks. That's almost a given, and out of the equation.
The tricky part is to ensure vaccinated people still err at the side of caution, especially the immunodeficient and people whose work involves a lot of physical contact. At least until the coast is clear wherever they are (low infection or hospitalisation rate).
Many less-developed places in the world* have rising cases even as vaccination rate is rising. Yes, anti-vaxxers are largely to blamed, and some governments are incompetent. But that's still no reason for the responsible ones to get frustrated and start behaving irresponsibly. Two wrongs don't make a right.
* I really worry for my close family and friends there...
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On August 27 2021 23:00 Salazarz wrote:
Yeah, I don't live in the US so I don't know what it's like there other than based on what looks to me like very biased and 'us vs them'-ish arguments so it's hard to judge. In Korea, vaccination is currently bottlenecked by vaccine availability but most people are in the, 'once I get my second shot I can finally live my life normally again' sort of mindset; there is for sure a huge portion of population who are currently avoiding dining out or going to gyms, clubs, etc until they get their shots done.
I really, really, really don't want to believe that all of the 30%+ of the unvaccinated people in the US are so caught up in the bullshit that they also don't care about masks, social distancing, or whatever else either, but perhaps that's too naive. There are quite a few people here who are worried about vaccine side effects or are still holding out for 'more data' (which is silly to me, but whatever) but are still taking precautions to avoid needlessly exposing themselves. My hope is that such sort of thinking would be more prevalent as opposed to 'COVID IS GOVERNMENT PROPAGANDA MUH FREEDOMZ' people, but yeah, I have absolutely no way to know that.
There are some very, very popular news organizations, political figures, and online presences that push exactly that kind of bullshit, and their fanbases are extremely loyal. So loyal, in fact, that Trump recently got booed at his own rally for finally recommending that his followers get vaccinated.
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On August 27 2021 23:00 Salazarz wrote:
Yeah, I don't live in the US so I don't know what it's like there other than based on what looks to me like very biased and 'us vs them'-ish arguments so it's hard to judge. In Korea, vaccination is currently bottlenecked by vaccine availability but most people are in the, 'once I get my second shot I can finally live my life normally again' sort of mindset; there is for sure a huge portion of population who are currently avoiding dining out or going to gyms, clubs, etc until they get their shots done.
I really, really, really don't want to believe that all of the 30%+ of the unvaccinated people in the US are so caught up in the bullshit that they also don't care about masks, social distancing, or whatever else either, but perhaps that's too naive. There are quite a few people here who are worried about vaccine side effects or are still holding out for 'more data' (which is silly to me, but whatever) but are still taking precautions to avoid needlessly exposing themselves. My hope is that such sort of thinking would be more prevalent as opposed to 'COVID IS GOVERNMENT PROPAGANDA MUH FREEDOMZ' people, but yeah, I have absolutely no way to know that.
Yeah, the US is pretty much that awful. I didn't think it was that prevalent outside of the US but upon a bit more looking I guess Russia and Australia were(/are?) worse when it comes to vaccine refusal/hesitancy.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/07/23/most-major-countries-are-becoming-less-hesitant-about-covid-19-vaccines-poll-finds-except-the-us/
EDIT: They have more current and complete poll results here:
https://morningconsult.com/global-vaccine-tracking/
Of note (that also may help explain some of the international disconnect) only ~46% of South Koreans that want to be vaccinated have been.
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Australia is a pretty bizarre case right now, all things considered. It's hard to tell how much of their problem is the government just being incredibly inept at vaccine procurement, how much is the government being terrible at communicating risk to the point of scaring people off AZ when there was no other vaccines available, how much is believing a real outbreak would never happen so the scaring off wouldn't matter, and how much is the government seeing the pandemic as a way to push isolationist policies. They also have their fair share of COVID grifters/deniers (including that nutjob doctor who made a "paleo diet for babies" book that was lethal), made worse by the limited spread in the country.
Now New South Wales is trying to race an ongoing Delta outbreak by vaccinating people with a 0 day headstart, which is a race I wouldn't want to run.
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On August 27 2021 23:59 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Australia is a pretty bizarre case right now, all things considered. It's hard to tell how much of their problem is the government just being incredibly inept at vaccine procurement, how much is the government being terrible at communicating risk to the point of scaring people off AZ when there was no other vaccines available, how much is believing a real outbreak would never happen so the scaring off wouldn't matter, and how much is the government seeing the pandemic as a way to push isolationist policies. They also have their fair share of COVID grifters/deniers (including that nutjob doctor who made a "paleo diet for babies" book that was lethal), made worse by the limited spread in the country.
Now New South Wales is trying to race an ongoing Delta outbreak by vaccinating people with a 0 day headstart, which is a race I wouldn't want to run.
all of the above.
except with the last statement they dont really have a choice. headstart or not you gotta race to get people vaccinated at some point.
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On August 27 2021 17:10 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2021 16:21 Lmui wrote:On August 27 2021 14:59 RKC wrote:
Instead of just a vaccine passport, adding an antibody test condition seems most effective in curbing infection (assuming testing is affordable and reliable). A double-layer passport. Unfortunately, this is rather tough on vaccinated people which fail the antibody test due to natural immunodeficiency. But it protects people which needs most protecting (even against their will).
Just thinking ahead. Probably not medically possible any time soon. And politically wouldn't fly as well. Way too involved/expensive for non-appreciable gain in protection at a population level. The vaccine passport is probably going to push a large proportion of the remainder to get a vaccine in the next month. Getting the vaccine in arms is by far the best way to mute increases in cases/severe outcomes. For every person without antibodies, hundreds more will have antibody responses. Those without antibodies can get tested to evaluate their individual risk level, but it doesn't really hurt them to get a useless vaccine (and presumably doctors can prescribe additional doses if/when possible to gain more immunity). In BC: Past week, cases per 100,000 population (Aug. 18-24) Not vaccinated: 199.5 Partially vaccinated 111.9 Fully vaccinated: 24.6 The unvax'd are 8x more likely to catch covid, and given we're essentially 100% Delta in BC (97% as of the last week), it's critical to fully vaccinate in order to minimize infections (and infections are the hardest thing for a vaccine to stop). That isn't actually how math works. Presumably BC is at > 50% vaccination. Looking at the numbers, 68% full vaccination rate, and a further 7% partial? That means the nonvaccinated are actually about 200/25,000 (0.8%), the partially are 112/7,000 (1.6%) and the fully vaccinated 25/68,000 (0.04%). With these percentages, you see that non-vaccinated are actually about 20x as likely to get Covid as vaccinated people, not 8. An interesting blip there is that partially vaccinated people are twice as likely to catch covid as completely unvaccinated. This may be a weird statistical blip (although it seems *very* high for that), or it may be due to lifestyle, where partially vaccinated people take risks that unvaccinated people don't, under the assumption that they are protected? E: plugged in the real numbers
I think the numbers I had are already rates/100k not absolute numbers. They're directly comparable. It's also for the last week rather than overall. I didnt do the calculation myself though so not sure on what was different
Overall I think the numbers are still around 8-10x for effectiveness against infection. It's a pretty big difference overall in susceptibility to infection, but not the 20x in your numbers. Behaviour is probably part of it, but the vaccine makes up the majority.
Ontario releases similar numbers daily with a larger population and the covid thread has numbers calculated there too: https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/pcob87/ontario_august_27th_update_781_cases_3_new14_old/
Regardless though, 2 doses on a long interval (6+ weeks) is still very effective against delta. I'm hoping clinical trials against children can wrap up sooner given the rate of cases in the US. They're the last big chunk of the population remaining. My neighborhood is at 92%/82% of 12+ partial/fully vax'd last time I checked so there's marginal gains left for the 12+ population compared to the children.
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On August 27 2021 21:14 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I think the people who get vaccines are generally the same people who adhered to the prior rules, but there's no question that being vaccinated makes many of these people less strict about adhering to those same rules because they see them as less important - in fact, being able to return to some degree of normalcy is a large part of the motivation for getting a vaccine. Anecdotally I can say that this applies to myself. (Not the getting vaccinated part, that was more from a 'it's the right thing to do' than something I did because I myself was worried about being infected.) After getting vaccinated, I've been more relaxed about wearing a mask, and I've been more happy to touch people, and I've to a greater degree behaved like I used to behave 18 months ago.
This applies to me as well. I didn't go anywhere for all of 2020 except places I could drive to and my activities were almost exclusively outdoors (hiking, beaches, etc.). Starting 2-3 weeks after my 2nd dose I've flown to Florida, Hawaii, Portland, Seattle, Sedona, Las Vegas, and recently got back from vacation in Costa Rica. All of my travel has been purely for pleasure. I probably would have still gone to some places even if the vaccine didn't come out but I definitely would be doing much less if I were still unvaccinated.
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On August 14 2021 11:40 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2021 10:22 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 10:11 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 10:00 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 09:11 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 07:54 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
You are making up 2 + boosters a year to try to prove a stupid point?
Yes business owners make rules to keep their other customers happy. It is like night clubs with metal detectors that won't even let legal guns in. Safety and the perception of safety is important to their paying customers. Who far out number the people who fear well tested and effective vaccines.
Say it ain't so nettles you want the government to regulate business on who they can let in?
How am i making up two boosters a year? Are you denying that the vaccines lose effectiveness after a few months? Australian government has ordered 60 million pfizer boosters for next year and already 25 million for 2023! https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/australia-secures-millions-of-pfizer-covid19-booster-shots/100321632Plus 15 million Moderna next year as boosters https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7251343/will-we-all-need-a-vaccine-booster/Now we’ve had this conversation before, yet again, but it is government not individual business pushing the vaccine passports.I gave my Australian example of that with the mandated QR codes (precursor to vaccine pass) but how about France? https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210725-french-parliament-set-to-adopt-vaccine-passports-law-after-protestsPresident Emmanuel Macron last week ordered that the health pass -- proof of full vaccination or a negative test -- would be required for the French to visit venues such as a cinema or nightclub and ultimately bars and restaurants.
The announcement was a move by Macron to make vaccinations the top weapon against Covid-19 as new variants emerge, essentially requiring people to become vaccinated if they want to continue daily routines. So like i said before this is Govt policy in many places.If vaccinated people feel unsafe around unvaccinated people then maybe they should have more faith in the vaccines. So because Australia is ordering boosters for next year, a year after, you think that means there will be 2 or more boosters per year? I think you may want to check your math. If people like you would just get the vaccine instead of make up reasons why not too there would be so many less problems. They've got 75 million boosters on order for next year, with a population of 20 million or so 16+, so to suggest 2 boosters a year really isn't that crazy an idea especially if they are already ordering tens of millions of further boosters for two years away. I'm not planning on getting the vaccine yet, I will wait and see what happens.But that is all academic since my age group is not eligible for the vaccine here yet anyway (I think they are starting it next week), there are plenty here who want it but have not been eligible to get it. I just looked it up. And it is enough so everyone can get a booster if they need it. Meaning one not 2+ a year. Also, he is probably getting ahead of himself and going overboard since he is getting killed (figuratively) for not getting enough original vaccine ordered. As you mention there is a supply issue, making sure he does not have a future one does not mean they are planning to force people. And the 2+ thing a year is just silly you should have just said you exaggerating for effect or something. That you are trying to argue it is nuts. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/australia-secures-millions-of-pfizer-covid19-booster-shots/100321632 I anticipate twice yearly boosters because i expect 'vaccine resistant' strains to appear.You see already they are recommending boosters for people against the delta variant.Studies are coming out showing the Lambda variant may be even more vaccine resistant than the Delta.... So we've seen a vaccine resistant strain emerge in a poorer country, you call to vaccinate everyone in the USA, say it happens, and then a resistant strain like Lambda comes along, requiring us to restart the lockdown/restriction/booster cycle again? No thanks. https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
The lambda variant, a COVID-19 mutation first identified in Peru that is quickly popping up worldwide, has been highlighted by governing bodies like the World Health Organizations (WHO) as a variant of interest. But a new study suggests that it may be resistant to some vaccines.
Using data from the Global Initiative on Sharing All Influenza Data database, researchers found three mutations within the lambda spike protein that could mean resistance to antibodies induced in humans by vaccines.
“Our results suggest that the resistance of the Lambda variant against antiviral humoral immunity was conferred by the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation,” the report concludes.
The RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, along with two other mutations identified when synthesizing the COVID-19 samples, specifically resists immunity from antibodies generated by the human body.
So in a situation where the Lambda variant is the next wave, early next year or something, then yes i expect there to be calls for new boosters to combat it.So they've ordered 75 million boosters for next year for a population of 20 million 16+, time will tell if they ship 40+ million of those to poorer countries or mandate them for use against a variant outbreak later next year. Ill make you a bet. If australia requires 2 or more boosters in 2022 ill take a year long ban. If they dont you take a month. Deal?
Biden Admin looking to move the booster timetable up three months, now recommending boosters 5 months after initial shots.Getting nervous yet? It’s becoming increasingly obvious it will be minimum two boosters per year.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/27/biden-says-us-health-officials-are-considering-covid-booster-shots-within-5-months.html
President Joe Biden said U.S. regulators are looking at administering Covid-19 booster shots five months after people finish their primary immunizations, moving up the expected timetable for a third shot by about three months.
Biden, who was speaking with Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett on Friday, said health officials were considering following that country’s lead on boosters.
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On August 28 2021 07:20 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2021 06:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 11:40 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 10:22 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 10:11 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 10:00 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 09:11 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 07:54 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
You are making up 2 + boosters a year to try to prove a stupid point?
Yes business owners make rules to keep their other customers happy. It is like night clubs with metal detectors that won't even let legal guns in. Safety and the perception of safety is important to their paying customers. Who far out number the people who fear well tested and effective vaccines.
Say it ain't so nettles you want the government to regulate business on who they can let in?
How am i making up two boosters a year? Are you denying that the vaccines lose effectiveness after a few months? Australian government has ordered 60 million pfizer boosters for next year and already 25 million for 2023! https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/australia-secures-millions-of-pfizer-covid19-booster-shots/100321632Plus 15 million Moderna next year as boosters https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7251343/will-we-all-need-a-vaccine-booster/Now we’ve had this conversation before, yet again, but it is government not individual business pushing the vaccine passports.I gave my Australian example of that with the mandated QR codes (precursor to vaccine pass) but how about France? https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210725-french-parliament-set-to-adopt-vaccine-passports-law-after-protestsPresident Emmanuel Macron last week ordered that the health pass -- proof of full vaccination or a negative test -- would be required for the French to visit venues such as a cinema or nightclub and ultimately bars and restaurants.
The announcement was a move by Macron to make vaccinations the top weapon against Covid-19 as new variants emerge, essentially requiring people to become vaccinated if they want to continue daily routines. So like i said before this is Govt policy in many places.If vaccinated people feel unsafe around unvaccinated people then maybe they should have more faith in the vaccines. So because Australia is ordering boosters for next year, a year after, you think that means there will be 2 or more boosters per year? I think you may want to check your math. If people like you would just get the vaccine instead of make up reasons why not too there would be so many less problems. They've got 75 million boosters on order for next year, with a population of 20 million or so 16+, so to suggest 2 boosters a year really isn't that crazy an idea especially if they are already ordering tens of millions of further boosters for two years away. I'm not planning on getting the vaccine yet, I will wait and see what happens.But that is all academic since my age group is not eligible for the vaccine here yet anyway (I think they are starting it next week), there are plenty here who want it but have not been eligible to get it. I just looked it up. And it is enough so everyone can get a booster if they need it. Meaning one not 2+ a year. Also, he is probably getting ahead of himself and going overboard since he is getting killed (figuratively) for not getting enough original vaccine ordered. As you mention there is a supply issue, making sure he does not have a future one does not mean they are planning to force people. And the 2+ thing a year is just silly you should have just said you exaggerating for effect or something. That you are trying to argue it is nuts. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/australia-secures-millions-of-pfizer-covid19-booster-shots/100321632 I anticipate twice yearly boosters because i expect 'vaccine resistant' strains to appear.You see already they are recommending boosters for people against the delta variant.Studies are coming out showing the Lambda variant may be even more vaccine resistant than the Delta.... So we've seen a vaccine resistant strain emerge in a poorer country, you call to vaccinate everyone in the USA, say it happens, and then a resistant strain like Lambda comes along, requiring us to restart the lockdown/restriction/booster cycle again? No thanks. https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
The lambda variant, a COVID-19 mutation first identified in Peru that is quickly popping up worldwide, has been highlighted by governing bodies like the World Health Organizations (WHO) as a variant of interest. But a new study suggests that it may be resistant to some vaccines.
Using data from the Global Initiative on Sharing All Influenza Data database, researchers found three mutations within the lambda spike protein that could mean resistance to antibodies induced in humans by vaccines.
“Our results suggest that the resistance of the Lambda variant against antiviral humoral immunity was conferred by the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation,” the report concludes.
The RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, along with two other mutations identified when synthesizing the COVID-19 samples, specifically resists immunity from antibodies generated by the human body.
So in a situation where the Lambda variant is the next wave, early next year or something, then yes i expect there to be calls for new boosters to combat it.So they've ordered 75 million boosters for next year for a population of 20 million 16+, time will tell if they ship 40+ million of those to poorer countries or mandate them for use against a variant outbreak later next year. Ill make you a bet. If australia requires 2 or more boosters in 2022 ill take a year long ban. If they dont you take a month. Deal? Biden Admin looking to move the booster timetable up three months, now recommending boosters 5 months after initial shots.Getting nervous yet? It’s becoming increasingly obvious it will be minimum two boosters per year. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/27/biden-says-us-health-officials-are-considering-covid-booster-shots-within-5-months.htmlPresident Joe Biden said U.S. regulators are looking at administering Covid-19 booster shots five months after people finish their primary immunizations, moving up the expected timetable for a third shot by about three months.
Biden, who was speaking with Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett on Friday, said health officials were considering following that country’s lead on boosters. Not at all, none of that says required.
The vaccine passports will require you to keep your boosters up to date in order to function within society.
In Israel, their vaccine passport will soon only be valid with three shots.How long until the NYC vaxx passport requires 3 shots? That would be a requirement.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-may-deny-green-passports-to-people-who-have-not-received-covid-booster-1.10147312
Israel May Deny Green Passports to People Who Have Not Received COVID Booster
Health Minister Horowitz says that since the vaccine loses effectiveness over time, proof of immunity will no longer be valid for those who have not had the booster
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On August 28 2021 08:00 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2021 07:20 JimmiC wrote:On August 28 2021 06:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 11:40 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 10:22 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 10:11 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 10:00 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 09:11 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 07:54 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
You are making up 2 + boosters a year to try to prove a stupid point?
Yes business owners make rules to keep their other customers happy. It is like night clubs with metal detectors that won't even let legal guns in. Safety and the perception of safety is important to their paying customers. Who far out number the people who fear well tested and effective vaccines.
Say it ain't so nettles you want the government to regulate business on who they can let in?
How am i making up two boosters a year? Are you denying that the vaccines lose effectiveness after a few months? Australian government has ordered 60 million pfizer boosters for next year and already 25 million for 2023! https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/australia-secures-millions-of-pfizer-covid19-booster-shots/100321632Plus 15 million Moderna next year as boosters https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7251343/will-we-all-need-a-vaccine-booster/Now we’ve had this conversation before, yet again, but it is government not individual business pushing the vaccine passports.I gave my Australian example of that with the mandated QR codes (precursor to vaccine pass) but how about France? https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210725-french-parliament-set-to-adopt-vaccine-passports-law-after-protestsPresident Emmanuel Macron last week ordered that the health pass -- proof of full vaccination or a negative test -- would be required for the French to visit venues such as a cinema or nightclub and ultimately bars and restaurants.
The announcement was a move by Macron to make vaccinations the top weapon against Covid-19 as new variants emerge, essentially requiring people to become vaccinated if they want to continue daily routines. So like i said before this is Govt policy in many places.If vaccinated people feel unsafe around unvaccinated people then maybe they should have more faith in the vaccines. So because Australia is ordering boosters for next year, a year after, you think that means there will be 2 or more boosters per year? I think you may want to check your math. If people like you would just get the vaccine instead of make up reasons why not too there would be so many less problems. They've got 75 million boosters on order for next year, with a population of 20 million or so 16+, so to suggest 2 boosters a year really isn't that crazy an idea especially if they are already ordering tens of millions of further boosters for two years away. I'm not planning on getting the vaccine yet, I will wait and see what happens.But that is all academic since my age group is not eligible for the vaccine here yet anyway (I think they are starting it next week), there are plenty here who want it but have not been eligible to get it. I just looked it up. And it is enough so everyone can get a booster if they need it. Meaning one not 2+ a year. Also, he is probably getting ahead of himself and going overboard since he is getting killed (figuratively) for not getting enough original vaccine ordered. As you mention there is a supply issue, making sure he does not have a future one does not mean they are planning to force people. And the 2+ thing a year is just silly you should have just said you exaggerating for effect or something. That you are trying to argue it is nuts. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/australia-secures-millions-of-pfizer-covid19-booster-shots/100321632 I anticipate twice yearly boosters because i expect 'vaccine resistant' strains to appear.You see already they are recommending boosters for people against the delta variant.Studies are coming out showing the Lambda variant may be even more vaccine resistant than the Delta.... So we've seen a vaccine resistant strain emerge in a poorer country, you call to vaccinate everyone in the USA, say it happens, and then a resistant strain like Lambda comes along, requiring us to restart the lockdown/restriction/booster cycle again? No thanks. https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
The lambda variant, a COVID-19 mutation first identified in Peru that is quickly popping up worldwide, has been highlighted by governing bodies like the World Health Organizations (WHO) as a variant of interest. But a new study suggests that it may be resistant to some vaccines.
Using data from the Global Initiative on Sharing All Influenza Data database, researchers found three mutations within the lambda spike protein that could mean resistance to antibodies induced in humans by vaccines.
“Our results suggest that the resistance of the Lambda variant against antiviral humoral immunity was conferred by the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation,” the report concludes.
The RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, along with two other mutations identified when synthesizing the COVID-19 samples, specifically resists immunity from antibodies generated by the human body.
So in a situation where the Lambda variant is the next wave, early next year or something, then yes i expect there to be calls for new boosters to combat it.So they've ordered 75 million boosters for next year for a population of 20 million 16+, time will tell if they ship 40+ million of those to poorer countries or mandate them for use against a variant outbreak later next year. Ill make you a bet. If australia requires 2 or more boosters in 2022 ill take a year long ban. If they dont you take a month. Deal? Biden Admin looking to move the booster timetable up three months, now recommending boosters 5 months after initial shots.Getting nervous yet? It’s becoming increasingly obvious it will be minimum two boosters per year. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/27/biden-says-us-health-officials-are-considering-covid-booster-shots-within-5-months.htmlPresident Joe Biden said U.S. regulators are looking at administering Covid-19 booster shots five months after people finish their primary immunizations, moving up the expected timetable for a third shot by about three months.
Biden, who was speaking with Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett on Friday, said health officials were considering following that country’s lead on boosters. Not at all, none of that says required. The vaccine passports will require you to keep your boosters up to date in order to function within society. In Israel, their vaccine passport will soon only be valid with three shots.How long until the NYC vaxx passport requires 3 shots? That would be a requirement. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-may-deny-green-passports-to-people-who-have-not-received-covid-booster-1.10147312Show nested quote +Israel May Deny Green Passports to People Who Have Not Received COVID Booster
Health Minister Horowitz says that since the vaccine loses effectiveness over time, proof of immunity will no longer be valid for those who have not had the booster
So you're saying, with full confidence, that this novel coronavirus will go the way of the flu instead of the way of polio, smallpox, HPV, etc? What makes you think we'll have to vaccinate multiple times every year instead of having just a multi-shot regiment, and how did you come to determine this? Furthermore, how do you know that there won't be a vaccine that provides lasting immunity in the future for longer or for more variants? Lastly, how does this study showing Pan-Sarbecovirus neutralizing antibodies appearing in SARS + Pfizer / BioNTech Vaccinated individuals play into your calculus? What are the odds that this study allows us to create a pan-sarbecovirus neutralizing vaccine?
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On August 28 2021 13:07 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2021 08:00 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 28 2021 07:20 JimmiC wrote:On August 28 2021 06:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 11:40 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 10:22 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 10:11 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 10:00 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 09:11 JimmiC wrote:So because Australia is ordering boosters for next year, a year after, you think that means there will be 2 or more boosters per year? I think you may want to check your math. If people like you would just get the vaccine instead of make up reasons why not too there would be so many less problems. They've got 75 million boosters on order for next year, with a population of 20 million or so 16+, so to suggest 2 boosters a year really isn't that crazy an idea especially if they are already ordering tens of millions of further boosters for two years away. I'm not planning on getting the vaccine yet, I will wait and see what happens.But that is all academic since my age group is not eligible for the vaccine here yet anyway (I think they are starting it next week), there are plenty here who want it but have not been eligible to get it. I just looked it up. And it is enough so everyone can get a booster if they need it. Meaning one not 2+ a year. Also, he is probably getting ahead of himself and going overboard since he is getting killed (figuratively) for not getting enough original vaccine ordered. As you mention there is a supply issue, making sure he does not have a future one does not mean they are planning to force people. And the 2+ thing a year is just silly you should have just said you exaggerating for effect or something. That you are trying to argue it is nuts. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/australia-secures-millions-of-pfizer-covid19-booster-shots/100321632 I anticipate twice yearly boosters because i expect 'vaccine resistant' strains to appear.You see already they are recommending boosters for people against the delta variant.Studies are coming out showing the Lambda variant may be even more vaccine resistant than the Delta.... So we've seen a vaccine resistant strain emerge in a poorer country, you call to vaccinate everyone in the USA, say it happens, and then a resistant strain like Lambda comes along, requiring us to restart the lockdown/restriction/booster cycle again? No thanks. https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
The lambda variant, a COVID-19 mutation first identified in Peru that is quickly popping up worldwide, has been highlighted by governing bodies like the World Health Organizations (WHO) as a variant of interest. But a new study suggests that it may be resistant to some vaccines.
Using data from the Global Initiative on Sharing All Influenza Data database, researchers found three mutations within the lambda spike protein that could mean resistance to antibodies induced in humans by vaccines.
“Our results suggest that the resistance of the Lambda variant against antiviral humoral immunity was conferred by the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation,” the report concludes.
The RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, along with two other mutations identified when synthesizing the COVID-19 samples, specifically resists immunity from antibodies generated by the human body.
So in a situation where the Lambda variant is the next wave, early next year or something, then yes i expect there to be calls for new boosters to combat it.So they've ordered 75 million boosters for next year for a population of 20 million 16+, time will tell if they ship 40+ million of those to poorer countries or mandate them for use against a variant outbreak later next year. Ill make you a bet. If australia requires 2 or more boosters in 2022 ill take a year long ban. If they dont you take a month. Deal? Biden Admin looking to move the booster timetable up three months, now recommending boosters 5 months after initial shots.Getting nervous yet? It’s becoming increasingly obvious it will be minimum two boosters per year. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/27/biden-says-us-health-officials-are-considering-covid-booster-shots-within-5-months.htmlPresident Joe Biden said U.S. regulators are looking at administering Covid-19 booster shots five months after people finish their primary immunizations, moving up the expected timetable for a third shot by about three months.
Biden, who was speaking with Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett on Friday, said health officials were considering following that country’s lead on boosters. Not at all, none of that says required. The vaccine passports will require you to keep your boosters up to date in order to function within society. In Israel, their vaccine passport will soon only be valid with three shots.How long until the NYC vaxx passport requires 3 shots? That would be a requirement. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-may-deny-green-passports-to-people-who-have-not-received-covid-booster-1.10147312Israel May Deny Green Passports to People Who Have Not Received COVID Booster
Health Minister Horowitz says that since the vaccine loses effectiveness over time, proof of immunity will no longer be valid for those who have not had the booster So you're saying, with full confidence, that this novel coronavirus will go the way of the flu instead of the way of polio, smallpox, HPV, etc?
Nothing is full confidence but that seems the most likely scenario yes, as i stated before Australia has already ordered mnra boosters for 2023, same as Canada
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/canada-reaches-deal-pfizer-vaccines-future-years-77272115
That implies to me that the likeliest outcome is continued boosters since they’re being ordered multiple years in advance.Hardly a huge leap in deduction.
What makes you think we'll have to vaccinate multiple times every year instead of having just a multi-shot regiment, and how did you come to determine this?
Because Israelis have now had three shots this year and i posted an article several pages back where the Israeli health ministry stated the arrival of the ‘vaccine resistant’ Lambda variant would necessitate another lockdown.The Lambda strain would thus require another booster suited for it.With boosters ordered years in advance in many countries and Israels PM stating vaccine immunity wears off after 6 months, this isn’t much of a jump to reach that conclusion.
Furthermore, how do you know that there won't be a vaccine that provides lasting immunity in the future for longer or for more variants? Lastly, how does this study showing Pan-Sarbecovirus neutralizing antibodies appearing in SARS + Pfizer / BioNTech Vaccinated individuals play into your calculus? What are the odds that this study allows us to create a pan-sarbecovirus neutralizing vaccine?
Any one time/cheap miracle treatment that reduces the huge profits Pfizer/Moderna/Novavax etc will make from regular boosters is unlikely to see light of day in current climate, but i would love to see it happen.
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My antivax cousin has covid for the second time right now. Sigh.
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On August 28 2021 15:19 Mohdoo wrote:
My antivax cousin has covid for the second time right now. Sigh.
It really boggles my mind how ridiculous being an anti-vaxxer is.
Anti-vax - high chance of contracting covid at some point, and gambling on a percentage of organ function to lose, between 0 and 100, with a high probability of landing at a non-zero number even for the younger population, and few/no known treatments for lasting effects.
Vaccines - Significantly reduces chance of catching covid, and significantly increase chance of landing on 0% organ damage. Downsides are a good chance of having a rough day or two after the shots, and some extremely rare more serious conditions.
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On August 28 2021 15:19 Mohdoo wrote:
My antivax cousin has covid for the second time right now. Sigh.
I was talking to an anti-vaxxer who was infected a few months ago, and we discussed how their post-infection immunity is statistically less effective than vaccinated immunity, and how both groups (post-infection and vaccinated) experience a reduction in covid resistance over time, hence the reason for booster shots. I asked them what their equivalent of a booster shot is, if they still refuse to get vaccinated; I asked them how they're going to renew their resistance to covid, after it fades. They shrugged and said they'd probably just get covid every year, and that it wasn't a big deal.
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EPT
