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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control.
It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you.
Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly.
This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here.
Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
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Northern Ireland25513 Posts
On August 30 2021 05:13 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 04:38 Mohdoo wrote:On August 30 2021 04:07 Sermokala wrote:On August 30 2021 03:39 Anc13nt wrote:On August 28 2021 20:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 28 2021 15:19 Mohdoo wrote:
My antivax cousin has covid for the second time right now. Sigh. I was talking to an anti-vaxxer who was infected a few months ago, and we discussed how their post-infection immunity is statistically less effective than vaccinated immunity, and how both groups (post-infection and vaccinated) experience a reduction in covid resistance over time, hence the reason for booster shots. I asked them what their equivalent of a booster shot is, if they still refuse to get vaccinated; I asked them how they're going to renew their resistance to covid, after it fades. They shrugged and said they'd probably just get covid every year, and that it wasn't a big deal. getting a disease in order to prevent it: facepalm levels of stupid right here. As bad as taking horse dewormer or better? And yeah lets bring that up. Boomers are now taking horse dewormer instead of getting the vaccine. a medicine commonly given to sheep that you take to prove you aren't sheep. It is a bizarre situation. They are even developing their own routines to use it as prevention. They are all clearly terrified of covid in some ways to the point where they are seeking other solutions. But they won't get vaccinated and they won't wear masks. It is such a deep cultural issue. It must be really hard to be confronting the reality that covid exists and not being willing to give up on everything you've been believing and spouting for over a year. It means admitting you have been being lied too and all the people you have been really angry at are right.
I dunno if hard is the word, borderline impossible seems to be closer to the mark.
If these people exist I’ve yet to actually encounter one on my travels, be it through life in general or via the disconnected reality of the internet.
See it with Brexit over here too. Rather than ‘Hm we don’t have all the things we were promised, fuck the people who promised them’ is mostly a retrenchment or an outright claim that things like supply chain disruption is fake. As someone who perhaps against my true calling in life has worked in retail since 2007 to now, there’s shitloads of supply chain disruption.
Actually makes my job a lot easier when I’m doing night shifts, we have about half our peak workload to do, but it’s absolutely a thing.
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On August 30 2021 03:19 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 02:10 Amumoman wrote:On August 30 2021 01:49 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 01:26 Amumoman wrote:On August 30 2021 01:17 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 00:55 Amumoman wrote:On August 29 2021 23:50 JimmiC wrote:Denmark is pretty awesome, high vaccination rate, low vaccine hesitency, low covid cases, almost not hospitalizations, low deaths, one of the first with a vaccine passport. Amazing how a competent government and a population that trusts the doctors, facts and science and you can be basicially done with covid. The epidemic is under control, we have record vaccination levels,” the health minister, Magnus Heunicke, said in a statement on Friday. “That is why we can drop the special rules we had to introduce in the fight against Covid-19.”
He warned, however, that even if the country was “in a good place right now”, the epidemic was not over and the government would not hesitate to “act quickly if the pandemic once again threatens the essential functioning of society”. The country was one of Europe’s first to impose a partial lockdown in March last year, closing schools and non-essential businesses and services. After tightening and relaxing anti-Covid measures throughout the pandemic, it was also one of the earliest to begin reopening, launching a “coronavirus passport” on 21 April this year. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/denmark-to-lift-all-remaining-covid-restrictions-on-10-septemberI forget what country you are from but maybe when they get to these numbers they will. Im surprised you would think one of the earliest to do lockdowns, passports and so on was the besf, but glad to see it! Short term paim for long term gain. Relative to other Western countries, restrictions have been the least extreme in Denmark (only surpassed by Sweden in terms of lowest degree of evil). Funny how bring up vac stats and such but apparently had no interest in looking at relevant health measurements (hint: denmark does fairly well relatively speaking on average in terms of obesity and other extreme manifestations of poor health). If you look at the stats for deaths in denmark, here’s what you’d find: the official # of deaths as of today is 2.577 (mind you this is whoever was deemed to have died because of corona or was tested positive less than 30 days prior). Out of these 2.6k ish people (for reference a little over 2000 died in one bad influenza season a few years ago), about 90 were below the age of 60 - half of whom officially declared as having existing comorbidities and many other having confirmed to have been of poor health (obesity). These measurements and restrictions - even if we assume states have any legitimacy in the first place - are so absurdly disproportionate with the extreme violations of people’s liberty.
But i guess some people just have a thing for fear-mongering and going against all that is good and beautiful in this world. Their health stats impact there death rate not covid spread. But yeah they are great at that too. Social democracies have done a great job handling the pandemic for the most part for a whole host of reasons. Healthy educated public that trusts their government being near the top. When people follow the voluntary measures you don't need as many forced ones, go figure. I love how people like you can see the amazing success they had, and then claim that means the measures were not needed. The logical gymnastics to have that make sense are unbelievable. Most sensible people see a place that is successful and think, hmmm we should do that too. This is your idea of success? You people are something else lmao You were the one that posted about their success. Which country is handling it better? What is your version of success? I said it was the least appalling example (with exception of sweden) of the western countries? And by least awful, i dont mean a success, i mean it was egreciously mishandled - however, credit where credit is due, not as poorly as it could have been. Im grateful to live in denmark; its bad here but it isnt north korea or australia Is the reason your dodging answering what country you think did the best because you are avoiding the reailty of covid and just wish it didnt exist? We all do, some of us just understand that sacrifice is required at times. @ Sapaio great point, all the social safety net working together!
I try not to dwell on wishing things that do exist didnt.
As to where, how or by whom we think the virus was best handled, it’s very clear that out sense of how to gauge that differs significantly.
Who doesnt realize the benefit of sacrifice? But for whom and on whose terms?
There’s a difference between sacrifice for someone whose health is compromised through no fault of their own and for someone who compromised their own health.
There’s a difference between sacrifice for someone whose values are aligned with yours and someone whose values are not.
There’s a difference between voluntary sacrifice and mandated enforced at gun point. One is noble; one is a perversion.
But I guess we fundamentally see the world very differently. You think I am turning a blind eye to the reality of the virus - and my sense is that you are greatly underappreciating at what cost the enforced restrictions and the fear-mongering comes.
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On August 30 2021 02:43 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 02:10 Amumoman wrote:On August 30 2021 01:49 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 01:26 Amumoman wrote:On August 30 2021 01:17 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 00:55 Amumoman wrote:On August 29 2021 23:50 JimmiC wrote:Denmark is pretty awesome, high vaccination rate, low vaccine hesitency, low covid cases, almost not hospitalizations, low deaths, one of the first with a vaccine passport. Amazing how a competent government and a population that trusts the doctors, facts and science and you can be basicially done with covid. The epidemic is under control, we have record vaccination levels,” the health minister, Magnus Heunicke, said in a statement on Friday. “That is why we can drop the special rules we had to introduce in the fight against Covid-19.”
He warned, however, that even if the country was “in a good place right now”, the epidemic was not over and the government would not hesitate to “act quickly if the pandemic once again threatens the essential functioning of society”. The country was one of Europe’s first to impose a partial lockdown in March last year, closing schools and non-essential businesses and services. After tightening and relaxing anti-Covid measures throughout the pandemic, it was also one of the earliest to begin reopening, launching a “coronavirus passport” on 21 April this year. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/denmark-to-lift-all-remaining-covid-restrictions-on-10-septemberI forget what country you are from but maybe when they get to these numbers they will. Im surprised you would think one of the earliest to do lockdowns, passports and so on was the besf, but glad to see it! Short term paim for long term gain. Relative to other Western countries, restrictions have been the least extreme in Denmark (only surpassed by Sweden in terms of lowest degree of evil). Funny how bring up vac stats and such but apparently had no interest in looking at relevant health measurements (hint: denmark does fairly well relatively speaking on average in terms of obesity and other extreme manifestations of poor health). If you look at the stats for deaths in denmark, here’s what you’d find: the official # of deaths as of today is 2.577 (mind you this is whoever was deemed to have died because of corona or was tested positive less than 30 days prior). Out of these 2.6k ish people (for reference a little over 2000 died in one bad influenza season a few years ago), about 90 were below the age of 60 - half of whom officially declared as having existing comorbidities and many other having confirmed to have been of poor health (obesity). These measurements and restrictions - even if we assume states have any legitimacy in the first place - are so absurdly disproportionate with the extreme violations of people’s liberty.
But i guess some people just have a thing for fear-mongering and going against all that is good and beautiful in this world. Their health stats impact there death rate not covid spread. But yeah they are great at that too. Social democracies have done a great job handling the pandemic for the most part for a whole host of reasons. Healthy educated public that trusts their government being near the top. When people follow the voluntary measures you don't need as many forced ones, go figure. I love how people like you can see the amazing success they had, and then claim that means the measures were not needed. The logical gymnastics to have that make sense are unbelievable. Most sensible people see a place that is successful and think, hmmm we should do that too. This is your idea of success? You people are something else lmao You were the one that posted about their success. Which country is handling it better? What is your version of success? I said it was the least appalling example (with exception of sweden) of the western countries? And by least awful, i dont mean a success, i mean it was egreciously mishandled - however, credit where credit is due, not as poorly as it could have been. Im grateful to live in denmark; its bad here but it isnt north korea or australia Can we have your alternate vision as to how to manage a pandemic that doesn’t transgress on your conception of liberty then?
How far back am I allowed to go in this thought experiment?
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On August 30 2021 06:37 Amumoman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 02:43 WombaT wrote:On August 30 2021 02:10 Amumoman wrote:On August 30 2021 01:49 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 01:26 Amumoman wrote:On August 30 2021 01:17 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 00:55 Amumoman wrote:On August 29 2021 23:50 JimmiC wrote:Denmark is pretty awesome, high vaccination rate, low vaccine hesitency, low covid cases, almost not hospitalizations, low deaths, one of the first with a vaccine passport. Amazing how a competent government and a population that trusts the doctors, facts and science and you can be basicially done with covid. The epidemic is under control, we have record vaccination levels,” the health minister, Magnus Heunicke, said in a statement on Friday. “That is why we can drop the special rules we had to introduce in the fight against Covid-19.”
He warned, however, that even if the country was “in a good place right now”, the epidemic was not over and the government would not hesitate to “act quickly if the pandemic once again threatens the essential functioning of society”. The country was one of Europe’s first to impose a partial lockdown in March last year, closing schools and non-essential businesses and services. After tightening and relaxing anti-Covid measures throughout the pandemic, it was also one of the earliest to begin reopening, launching a “coronavirus passport” on 21 April this year. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/denmark-to-lift-all-remaining-covid-restrictions-on-10-septemberI forget what country you are from but maybe when they get to these numbers they will. Im surprised you would think one of the earliest to do lockdowns, passports and so on was the besf, but glad to see it! Short term paim for long term gain. Relative to other Western countries, restrictions have been the least extreme in Denmark (only surpassed by Sweden in terms of lowest degree of evil). Funny how bring up vac stats and such but apparently had no interest in looking at relevant health measurements (hint: denmark does fairly well relatively speaking on average in terms of obesity and other extreme manifestations of poor health). If you look at the stats for deaths in denmark, here’s what you’d find: the official # of deaths as of today is 2.577 (mind you this is whoever was deemed to have died because of corona or was tested positive less than 30 days prior). Out of these 2.6k ish people (for reference a little over 2000 died in one bad influenza season a few years ago), about 90 were below the age of 60 - half of whom officially declared as having existing comorbidities and many other having confirmed to have been of poor health (obesity). These measurements and restrictions - even if we assume states have any legitimacy in the first place - are so absurdly disproportionate with the extreme violations of people’s liberty.
But i guess some people just have a thing for fear-mongering and going against all that is good and beautiful in this world. Their health stats impact there death rate not covid spread. But yeah they are great at that too. Social democracies have done a great job handling the pandemic for the most part for a whole host of reasons. Healthy educated public that trusts their government being near the top. When people follow the voluntary measures you don't need as many forced ones, go figure. I love how people like you can see the amazing success they had, and then claim that means the measures were not needed. The logical gymnastics to have that make sense are unbelievable. Most sensible people see a place that is successful and think, hmmm we should do that too. This is your idea of success? You people are something else lmao You were the one that posted about their success. Which country is handling it better? What is your version of success? I said it was the least appalling example (with exception of sweden) of the western countries? And by least awful, i dont mean a success, i mean it was egreciously mishandled - however, credit where credit is due, not as poorly as it could have been. Im grateful to live in denmark; its bad here but it isnt north korea or australia Can we have your alternate vision as to how to manage a pandemic that doesn’t transgress on your conception of liberty then? How far back am I allowed to go in this thought experiment?
Just let it rip dude. You got no reason to hold back.
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Northern Ireland25513 Posts
On August 30 2021 06:37 Amumoman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 02:43 WombaT wrote:On August 30 2021 02:10 Amumoman wrote:On August 30 2021 01:49 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 01:26 Amumoman wrote:On August 30 2021 01:17 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 00:55 Amumoman wrote:On August 29 2021 23:50 JimmiC wrote:Denmark is pretty awesome, high vaccination rate, low vaccine hesitency, low covid cases, almost not hospitalizations, low deaths, one of the first with a vaccine passport. Amazing how a competent government and a population that trusts the doctors, facts and science and you can be basicially done with covid. The epidemic is under control, we have record vaccination levels,” the health minister, Magnus Heunicke, said in a statement on Friday. “That is why we can drop the special rules we had to introduce in the fight against Covid-19.”
He warned, however, that even if the country was “in a good place right now”, the epidemic was not over and the government would not hesitate to “act quickly if the pandemic once again threatens the essential functioning of society”. The country was one of Europe’s first to impose a partial lockdown in March last year, closing schools and non-essential businesses and services. After tightening and relaxing anti-Covid measures throughout the pandemic, it was also one of the earliest to begin reopening, launching a “coronavirus passport” on 21 April this year. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/denmark-to-lift-all-remaining-covid-restrictions-on-10-septemberI forget what country you are from but maybe when they get to these numbers they will. Im surprised you would think one of the earliest to do lockdowns, passports and so on was the besf, but glad to see it! Short term paim for long term gain. Relative to other Western countries, restrictions have been the least extreme in Denmark (only surpassed by Sweden in terms of lowest degree of evil). Funny how bring up vac stats and such but apparently had no interest in looking at relevant health measurements (hint: denmark does fairly well relatively speaking on average in terms of obesity and other extreme manifestations of poor health). If you look at the stats for deaths in denmark, here’s what you’d find: the official # of deaths as of today is 2.577 (mind you this is whoever was deemed to have died because of corona or was tested positive less than 30 days prior). Out of these 2.6k ish people (for reference a little over 2000 died in one bad influenza season a few years ago), about 90 were below the age of 60 - half of whom officially declared as having existing comorbidities and many other having confirmed to have been of poor health (obesity). These measurements and restrictions - even if we assume states have any legitimacy in the first place - are so absurdly disproportionate with the extreme violations of people’s liberty.
But i guess some people just have a thing for fear-mongering and going against all that is good and beautiful in this world. Their health stats impact there death rate not covid spread. But yeah they are great at that too. Social democracies have done a great job handling the pandemic for the most part for a whole host of reasons. Healthy educated public that trusts their government being near the top. When people follow the voluntary measures you don't need as many forced ones, go figure. I love how people like you can see the amazing success they had, and then claim that means the measures were not needed. The logical gymnastics to have that make sense are unbelievable. Most sensible people see a place that is successful and think, hmmm we should do that too. This is your idea of success? You people are something else lmao You were the one that posted about their success. Which country is handling it better? What is your version of success? I said it was the least appalling example (with exception of sweden) of the western countries? And by least awful, i dont mean a success, i mean it was egreciously mishandled - however, credit where credit is due, not as poorly as it could have been. Im grateful to live in denmark; its bad here but it isnt north korea or australia Can we have your alternate vision as to how to manage a pandemic that doesn’t transgress on your conception of liberty then? How far back am I allowed to go in this thought experiment?
As far back as you want man.
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Small remote homogenous countries of different political stripes have done well containing the virus (NZ, Singapore, Taiwan, Bhutan, Scandinavian countries). Their task is much easier than larger diverse societies, obviously. Different strategies can work, no universal specific lesson in governance can be drawn (except for general themes like trust, competence, etc).
Arguably, China is the most successful major country in keeping their people safe. Take that as you may.
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On August 30 2021 06:34 Amumoman wrote:
There’s a difference between sacrifice for someone whose health is compromised through no fault of their own and for someone who compromised their own health.
Well, would you not agree that goes both ways? Some people can't get a treatment because of the pandemic, which at this point is largely driven by people who aren't getting vaccinated.
It's not a one-sided argument. The question is really just which actions you think are more justifiable. Turning it into a moral argument doesn't seem to lead to a good conclusion.
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Update on my cousin with covid for the second time: she’s bar hopping and getting lunch with people. Oof.
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On August 30 2021 10:39 Mohdoo wrote:
Update on my cousin with covid for the second time: she’s bar hopping and getting lunch with people. Oof.
Just for perspective, in Germany you can get fined up to 25k€ and/or up to 5 years in jail for knowingly infecting other people.
We had a infectious diseases law in place decades ahead of this pandemic, which just had to be activeated by paliament, those fines are part of it and i think they are a good thing and should be enforced more.
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On August 30 2021 11:00 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 06:34 Amumoman wrote:On August 30 2021 03:19 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 02:10 Amumoman wrote:On August 30 2021 01:49 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 01:26 Amumoman wrote:On August 30 2021 01:17 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 00:55 Amumoman wrote:On August 29 2021 23:50 JimmiC wrote:Denmark is pretty awesome, high vaccination rate, low vaccine hesitency, low covid cases, almost not hospitalizations, low deaths, one of the first with a vaccine passport. Amazing how a competent government and a population that trusts the doctors, facts and science and you can be basicially done with covid. The epidemic is under control, we have record vaccination levels,” the health minister, Magnus Heunicke, said in a statement on Friday. “That is why we can drop the special rules we had to introduce in the fight against Covid-19.”
He warned, however, that even if the country was “in a good place right now”, the epidemic was not over and the government would not hesitate to “act quickly if the pandemic once again threatens the essential functioning of society”. The country was one of Europe’s first to impose a partial lockdown in March last year, closing schools and non-essential businesses and services. After tightening and relaxing anti-Covid measures throughout the pandemic, it was also one of the earliest to begin reopening, launching a “coronavirus passport” on 21 April this year. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/denmark-to-lift-all-remaining-covid-restrictions-on-10-septemberI forget what country you are from but maybe when they get to these numbers they will. Im surprised you would think one of the earliest to do lockdowns, passports and so on was the besf, but glad to see it! Short term paim for long term gain. Relative to other Western countries, restrictions have been the least extreme in Denmark (only surpassed by Sweden in terms of lowest degree of evil). Funny how bring up vac stats and such but apparently had no interest in looking at relevant health measurements (hint: denmark does fairly well relatively speaking on average in terms of obesity and other extreme manifestations of poor health). If you look at the stats for deaths in denmark, here’s what you’d find: the official # of deaths as of today is 2.577 (mind you this is whoever was deemed to have died because of corona or was tested positive less than 30 days prior). Out of these 2.6k ish people (for reference a little over 2000 died in one bad influenza season a few years ago), about 90 were below the age of 60 - half of whom officially declared as having existing comorbidities and many other having confirmed to have been of poor health (obesity). These measurements and restrictions - even if we assume states have any legitimacy in the first place - are so absurdly disproportionate with the extreme violations of people’s liberty.
But i guess some people just have a thing for fear-mongering and going against all that is good and beautiful in this world. Their health stats impact there death rate not covid spread. But yeah they are great at that too. Social democracies have done a great job handling the pandemic for the most part for a whole host of reasons. Healthy educated public that trusts their government being near the top. When people follow the voluntary measures you don't need as many forced ones, go figure. I love how people like you can see the amazing success they had, and then claim that means the measures were not needed. The logical gymnastics to have that make sense are unbelievable. Most sensible people see a place that is successful and think, hmmm we should do that too. This is your idea of success? You people are something else lmao You were the one that posted about their success. Which country is handling it better? What is your version of success? I said it was the least appalling example (with exception of sweden) of the western countries? And by least awful, i dont mean a success, i mean it was egreciously mishandled - however, credit where credit is due, not as poorly as it could have been. Im grateful to live in denmark; its bad here but it isnt north korea or australia Is the reason your dodging answering what country you think did the best because you are avoiding the reailty of covid and just wish it didnt exist? We all do, some of us just understand that sacrifice is required at times. @ Sapaio great point, all the social safety net working together! I try not to dwell on wishing things that do exist didnt. As to where, how or by whom we think the virus was best handled, it’s very clear that out sense of how to gauge that differs significantly. Who doesnt realize the benefit of sacrifice? But for whom and on whose terms? There’s a difference between sacrifice for someone whose health is compromised through no fault of their own and for someone who compromised their own health. There’s a difference between sacrifice for someone whose values are aligned with yours and someone whose values are not. There’s a difference between voluntary sacrifice and mandated enforced at gun point. One is noble; one is a perversion. But I guess we fundamentally see the world very differently. You think I am turning a blind eye to the reality of the virus - and my sense is that you are greatly underappreciating at what cost the enforced restrictions and the fear-mongering comes. Lots of words no answer. Take a stand where did the best? This should not be a hard question.
Already answered this, no?
Out of the western countries, Denmark/Sweden have done the least reprehensive job if you ask me.
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On August 30 2021 10:38 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 06:34 Amumoman wrote:
There’s a difference between sacrifice for someone whose health is compromised through no fault of their own and for someone who compromised their own health. Well, would you not agree that goes both ways? Some people can't get a treatment because of the pandemic, which at this point is largely driven by people who aren't getting vaccinated. It's not a one-sided argument. The question is really just which actions you think are more justifiable. Turning it into a moral argument doesn't seem to lead to a good conclusion.
I dont think anyone is entitled to anything. This seems to be something we disagree about.
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On August 30 2021 05:13 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 04:38 Mohdoo wrote:On August 30 2021 04:07 Sermokala wrote:On August 30 2021 03:39 Anc13nt wrote:On August 28 2021 20:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 28 2021 15:19 Mohdoo wrote:
My antivax cousin has covid for the second time right now. Sigh. I was talking to an anti-vaxxer who was infected a few months ago, and we discussed how their post-infection immunity is statistically less effective than vaccinated immunity, and how both groups (post-infection and vaccinated) experience a reduction in covid resistance over time, hence the reason for booster shots. I asked them what their equivalent of a booster shot is, if they still refuse to get vaccinated; I asked them how they're going to renew their resistance to covid, after it fades. They shrugged and said they'd probably just get covid every year, and that it wasn't a big deal. getting a disease in order to prevent it: facepalm levels of stupid right here. As bad as taking horse dewormer or better? And yeah lets bring that up. Boomers are now taking horse dewormer instead of getting the vaccine. a medicine commonly given to sheep that you take to prove you aren't sheep. It is a bizarre situation. They are even developing their own routines to use it as prevention. They are all clearly terrified of covid in some ways to the point where they are seeking other solutions. But they won't get vaccinated and they won't wear masks. It is such a deep cultural issue. It must be really hard to be confronting the reality that covid exists and not being willing to give up on everything you've been believing and spouting for over a year. It means admitting you have been being lied too and all the people you have been really angry at are right.
Why would people taking horse dewormers because they think it prevents covid not believe that covid exists? I know you like to lazily call everyone that disagrees with your views a covid-denier but at least do it in a way that makes sense.
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On August 30 2021 19:45 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 05:13 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 04:38 Mohdoo wrote:On August 30 2021 04:07 Sermokala wrote:On August 30 2021 03:39 Anc13nt wrote:On August 28 2021 20:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 28 2021 15:19 Mohdoo wrote:
My antivax cousin has covid for the second time right now. Sigh. I was talking to an anti-vaxxer who was infected a few months ago, and we discussed how their post-infection immunity is statistically less effective than vaccinated immunity, and how both groups (post-infection and vaccinated) experience a reduction in covid resistance over time, hence the reason for booster shots. I asked them what their equivalent of a booster shot is, if they still refuse to get vaccinated; I asked them how they're going to renew their resistance to covid, after it fades. They shrugged and said they'd probably just get covid every year, and that it wasn't a big deal. getting a disease in order to prevent it: facepalm levels of stupid right here. As bad as taking horse dewormer or better? And yeah lets bring that up. Boomers are now taking horse dewormer instead of getting the vaccine. a medicine commonly given to sheep that you take to prove you aren't sheep. It is a bizarre situation. They are even developing their own routines to use it as prevention. They are all clearly terrified of covid in some ways to the point where they are seeking other solutions. But they won't get vaccinated and they won't wear masks. It is such a deep cultural issue. It must be really hard to be confronting the reality that covid exists and not being willing to give up on everything you've been believing and spouting for over a year. It means admitting you have been being lied too and all the people you have been really angry at are right. Why would people taking horse dewormers because they think it prevents covid not believe that covid exists? I know you like to lazily call everyone that disagrees with your views a covid-denier but at least do it in a way that makes sense. First Covid did not exist so they ignored it, Then when lots of people got sick it was 'just the flu' so they refused the vaccine. Now people they know are landing in hospitals and dying. They can't reach for the vaccine because that means admitting that they were wrong and 'the liberals' were right. But dying is also kind of a bummer so you get horse dewormer because these people are not smart.
You will have a hard time convincing me that people reaching for horse dewormer when vaccines are free and readily available are some different group from the people who have been denying and downplaying Covid since the start.
They have moved on from denying its very existence because that gets harder to do when people they personally know have died from it. And with the death rates in a bunch of states being the way it is, the group of people who have lost someone they care about to Covid is growing fast.
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On August 30 2021 06:26 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 05:13 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 04:38 Mohdoo wrote:On August 30 2021 04:07 Sermokala wrote:On August 30 2021 03:39 Anc13nt wrote:On August 28 2021 20:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 28 2021 15:19 Mohdoo wrote:
My antivax cousin has covid for the second time right now. Sigh. I was talking to an anti-vaxxer who was infected a few months ago, and we discussed how their post-infection immunity is statistically less effective than vaccinated immunity, and how both groups (post-infection and vaccinated) experience a reduction in covid resistance over time, hence the reason for booster shots. I asked them what their equivalent of a booster shot is, if they still refuse to get vaccinated; I asked them how they're going to renew their resistance to covid, after it fades. They shrugged and said they'd probably just get covid every year, and that it wasn't a big deal. getting a disease in order to prevent it: facepalm levels of stupid right here. As bad as taking horse dewormer or better? And yeah lets bring that up. Boomers are now taking horse dewormer instead of getting the vaccine. a medicine commonly given to sheep that you take to prove you aren't sheep. It is a bizarre situation. They are even developing their own routines to use it as prevention. They are all clearly terrified of covid in some ways to the point where they are seeking other solutions. But they won't get vaccinated and they won't wear masks. It is such a deep cultural issue. It must be really hard to be confronting the reality that covid exists and not being willing to give up on everything you've been believing and spouting for over a year. It means admitting you have been being lied too and all the people you have been really angry at are right. See it with Brexit over here too. Rather than ‘Hm we don’t have all the things we were promised, fuck the people who promised them’ is mostly a retrenchment or an outright claim that things like supply chain disruption is fake. As someone who perhaps against my true calling in life has worked in retail since 2007 to now, there’s shitloads of supply chain disruption.
Nobody should be arguing that.Drivers and farm workers should be paid more, which would help some, but the main reason for the supply issues is covid bottlenecks due to government imposed restrictions (chips especially) and the NHS app that caused mass self isolation of essential workers.Hundreds of thousands of employees self isolating for 10 days, big impact.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pingdemic-covid-app-food-shortage-b1888577.html
The UK economy is being hard-hit by staff absences prompted by the quarantine orders, a problem affecting every sector, from retail and hospitality to transport, tourism and manufacturing, causing shifts to be rescheduled and services to run late or be cancelled altogether.
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On August 28 2021 13:07 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2021 08:00 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 28 2021 07:20 JimmiC wrote:On August 28 2021 06:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 11:40 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 10:22 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 10:11 JimmiC wrote:On August 14 2021 10:00 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On August 14 2021 09:11 JimmiC wrote:So because Australia is ordering boosters for next year, a year after, you think that means there will be 2 or more boosters per year? I think you may want to check your math. If people like you would just get the vaccine instead of make up reasons why not too there would be so many less problems. They've got 75 million boosters on order for next year, with a population of 20 million or so 16+, so to suggest 2 boosters a year really isn't that crazy an idea especially if they are already ordering tens of millions of further boosters for two years away. I'm not planning on getting the vaccine yet, I will wait and see what happens.But that is all academic since my age group is not eligible for the vaccine here yet anyway (I think they are starting it next week), there are plenty here who want it but have not been eligible to get it. I just looked it up. And it is enough so everyone can get a booster if they need it. Meaning one not 2+ a year. Also, he is probably getting ahead of himself and going overboard since he is getting killed (figuratively) for not getting enough original vaccine ordered. As you mention there is a supply issue, making sure he does not have a future one does not mean they are planning to force people. And the 2+ thing a year is just silly you should have just said you exaggerating for effect or something. That you are trying to argue it is nuts. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-25/australia-secures-millions-of-pfizer-covid19-booster-shots/100321632 I anticipate twice yearly boosters because i expect 'vaccine resistant' strains to appear.You see already they are recommending boosters for people against the delta variant.Studies are coming out showing the Lambda variant may be even more vaccine resistant than the Delta.... So we've seen a vaccine resistant strain emerge in a poorer country, you call to vaccinate everyone in the USA, say it happens, and then a resistant strain like Lambda comes along, requiring us to restart the lockdown/restriction/booster cycle again? No thanks. https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/567771-study-says-new-lambda-variant-could-be-vaccine
The lambda variant, a COVID-19 mutation first identified in Peru that is quickly popping up worldwide, has been highlighted by governing bodies like the World Health Organizations (WHO) as a variant of interest. But a new study suggests that it may be resistant to some vaccines.
Using data from the Global Initiative on Sharing All Influenza Data database, researchers found three mutations within the lambda spike protein that could mean resistance to antibodies induced in humans by vaccines.
“Our results suggest that the resistance of the Lambda variant against antiviral humoral immunity was conferred by the RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation,” the report concludes.
The RSYLTPGD246-253N mutation, along with two other mutations identified when synthesizing the COVID-19 samples, specifically resists immunity from antibodies generated by the human body.
So in a situation where the Lambda variant is the next wave, early next year or something, then yes i expect there to be calls for new boosters to combat it.So they've ordered 75 million boosters for next year for a population of 20 million 16+, time will tell if they ship 40+ million of those to poorer countries or mandate them for use against a variant outbreak later next year. Ill make you a bet. If australia requires 2 or more boosters in 2022 ill take a year long ban. If they dont you take a month. Deal? Biden Admin looking to move the booster timetable up three months, now recommending boosters 5 months after initial shots.Getting nervous yet? It’s becoming increasingly obvious it will be minimum two boosters per year. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/27/biden-says-us-health-officials-are-considering-covid-booster-shots-within-5-months.htmlPresident Joe Biden said U.S. regulators are looking at administering Covid-19 booster shots five months after people finish their primary immunizations, moving up the expected timetable for a third shot by about three months.
Biden, who was speaking with Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett on Friday, said health officials were considering following that country’s lead on boosters. Not at all, none of that says required. The vaccine passports will require you to keep your boosters up to date in order to function within society. In Israel, their vaccine passport will soon only be valid with three shots.How long until the NYC vaxx passport requires 3 shots? That would be a requirement. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-may-deny-green-passports-to-people-who-have-not-received-covid-booster-1.10147312Israel May Deny Green Passports to People Who Have Not Received COVID Booster
Health Minister Horowitz says that since the vaccine loses effectiveness over time, proof of immunity will no longer be valid for those who have not had the booster So you're saying, with full confidence, that this novel coronavirus will go the way of the flu instead of the way of polio, smallpox, HPV, etc? What makes you think we'll have to vaccinate multiple times every year instead of having just a multi-shot regiment, and how did you come to determine this?
Addressed this already but a new Australian news article from today proves my point more thoroughly, coming from the chief health officer of the largest state.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/nsw-residents-told-to-expect-covid19-booster-shots-indefinitely/news-story/abda9fcf5d5344c6c8ed22bc5d939b16
NSW residents told to expect Covid-19 booster shots indefinitely
NSW residents can expect to receive periodic Covid-19 vaccines for years to come after the state hits its initial 70 per cent double dose target.
Chief health officer Kerry Chant said on Monday morning people will need to get used to receiving booster shots, with the virus expected to circulate indefinitely.
“I can’t see that Covid is not going to be with us forever,” Dr Chant said.
Again this was very predictable considering the country had already ordered boosters for 2023.
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On August 30 2021 19:43 Amumoman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 10:38 Magic Powers wrote:On August 30 2021 06:34 Amumoman wrote:
There’s a difference between sacrifice for someone whose health is compromised through no fault of their own and for someone who compromised their own health. Well, would you not agree that goes both ways? Some people can't get a treatment because of the pandemic, which at this point is largely driven by people who aren't getting vaccinated. It's not a one-sided argument. The question is really just which actions you think are more justifiable. Turning it into a moral argument doesn't seem to lead to a good conclusion. I dont think anyone is entitled to anything. This seems to be something we disagree about.
"Entitled"? People pay for healthcare with their hard-earned money. Are you calling that entitlement? Seriously?
I mean I guess yeah, that would be entitlement. People are entitled to what they pay for. Would you agree or disagree?
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Northern Ireland25513 Posts
On August 30 2021 20:23 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2021 06:26 WombaT wrote:On August 30 2021 05:13 JimmiC wrote:On August 30 2021 04:38 Mohdoo wrote:On August 30 2021 04:07 Sermokala wrote:On August 30 2021 03:39 Anc13nt wrote:On August 28 2021 20:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 28 2021 15:19 Mohdoo wrote:
My antivax cousin has covid for the second time right now. Sigh. I was talking to an anti-vaxxer who was infected a few months ago, and we discussed how their post-infection immunity is statistically less effective than vaccinated immunity, and how both groups (post-infection and vaccinated) experience a reduction in covid resistance over time, hence the reason for booster shots. I asked them what their equivalent of a booster shot is, if they still refuse to get vaccinated; I asked them how they're going to renew their resistance to covid, after it fades. They shrugged and said they'd probably just get covid every year, and that it wasn't a big deal. getting a disease in order to prevent it: facepalm levels of stupid right here. As bad as taking horse dewormer or better? And yeah lets bring that up. Boomers are now taking horse dewormer instead of getting the vaccine. a medicine commonly given to sheep that you take to prove you aren't sheep. It is a bizarre situation. They are even developing their own routines to use it as prevention. They are all clearly terrified of covid in some ways to the point where they are seeking other solutions. But they won't get vaccinated and they won't wear masks. It is such a deep cultural issue. It must be really hard to be confronting the reality that covid exists and not being willing to give up on everything you've been believing and spouting for over a year. It means admitting you have been being lied too and all the people you have been really angry at are right. See it with Brexit over here too. Rather than ‘Hm we don’t have all the things we were promised, fuck the people who promised them’ is mostly a retrenchment or an outright claim that things like supply chain disruption is fake. As someone who perhaps against my true calling in life has worked in retail since 2007 to now, there’s shitloads of supply chain disruption. Nobody should be arguing that.Drivers and farm workers should be paid more, which would help some, but the main reason for the supply issues is covid bottlenecks due to government imposed restrictions (chips especially) and the NHS app that caused mass self isolation of essential workers.Hundreds of thousands of employees self isolating for 10 days, big impact. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pingdemic-covid-app-food-shortage-b1888577.htmlShow nested quote +The UK economy is being hard-hit by staff absences prompted by the quarantine orders, a problem affecting every sector, from retail and hospitality to transport, tourism and manufacturing, causing shifts to be rescheduled and services to run late or be cancelled altogether.
We’re nearly in September now and it’s still an issue.
The ‘pingdemic’ has been a factor, sure. On the other side of the ledger driver shortages have been warned about for half a decade and still very much have not been filled. We’re not talking Covid staff shortages affecting a full fleet, but a depleted one.
Who’s paying these extra wages? It pays damn pretty well but it’s an antisocial job. It was so before, it’s more so now as per border and custom checks intersecting with health and safety regulations. Due to limitations on how far/long drivers can operate, you’re needing more overnight stays in service stations due to delays vs the prior situation so it’s less attractive again.
Anyway this is pretty off topic but felt I should respond.
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