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On February 24 2021 08:17 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2021 07:56 BlackJack wrote:On February 24 2021 00:27 JimmiC wrote:On February 23 2021 09:39 Amui wrote:On February 23 2021 01:09 JimmiC wrote:On February 22 2021 21:30 Slydie wrote:
You just can't use fighting the pandemic as an excuse justify everything. Every country has overreacted at times, and it HAS to be debated and criticised.
I am completely aware that Denmark was close to getting a very big 3rd wave, and they avoided it by closing down over Christmas. But did they still do too much and use the right criteria? I know the population there is extremely tired now.
If you want to see overreaction, Norway is a good place currently. The number of Covid related deaths hide perfectly well within the expected deaths for lower respiratory infections, and the the number of deaths was LOWER in 2020 than in other recent years.
At this point, predicting the development anfew weeks ahead should not be that difficult, and every country has more or less learned what works. I just wish they were brave enough to state what is acceptable and what is not, and consider well the costs and benefits. Careers, businesses, education, mental health, sports, social and cultural life also have value.
It feels like covid-19 cases and deaths is the only thing that matters now. Tens of thousands of all ages die all the time from all kinds of terrible conditions, but the truth is, as we don't know them and it isn't reported, we don't give a shit. I can't wait for the day this will be considered just one of many illnesses that can kill you. Why does this mean that they overreacted and not that they did a good job? What or who did what you would consider a good job? All those things you speak of are being considered at every meeting on these issues. There are not just doctors at them. I can't wait until this illness is considered one of those things that our healthcare systems can deal with without measures. And I hate how many people still think this only impacts the old and only deaths matter. There is currently a bunch of NHL players out months (hopefully not forever because of it), UFC fighters, NBA players, so on. All these young people, in their prime, best possible care and they are being rocked. This is not the flu, it is not close if people went on as normal and acted as if it was just one of the things you could catch it would be absolutely horrendous. Pretty much. When top level athletes suddenly have heart and lung problems after catching even mild bouts of covid, you can pretty much be sure that the average person without the same level of access and poorer health will also have the same issues, just undiagnosed. The cost isn't just now, it's all the productive years lost from people who aren't the same and the cost of taking care of them down the line. On a different note, we're now 6 weeks into the Biden presidency, and we can see what competent leadership towards Covid on a federal level has done. Not all of it can be attributed to Biden, as some policies were implemented right as the transition was occuring, and vaccinations undoubtedly have helped push the number down further. I would say he deserves a passing grade on that part at least. Cases - 250k average -> 70k average. Dropping by about 19% a week. Deaths - 3k average(peak of 3.4k) to just under 2k. The 3.4k peak I would say is still attributable to Trump, as the vast majority of those dying at that point would've been infected under Trump. It was clear before the election there was a big blue red divide. https://apnews.com/article/counties-worst-virus-surges-voted-trump-d671a483534024b5486715da6edb6ebf You couldn't cherry pick this any harder even if you tried (maybe you were trying). You're posting a 4 month old article from the time that the middle rural states were getting their big surge to point out a red/blue divide? Why not post a recent article when California was getting their big surge? Or a article from last Spring when NY/NJ were stacking up the body bags? Last Spring Coronavirus didn't even exist in these middle states like Montana and Wyoming. Is it because those red states were so great at keeping it contained? No, it's common sense that coronavirus is going to take time to make it's way to small towns in middle America that people rarely visit. Waiting until coronavirus makes it to those middle insulated states while it declines in the coastal states to say "see how shit those red states are doing?" is just opportune partisan hackery and it's absolutely nauseating. If you're going to make coronavirus all about politics maybe at least talk a little about Andrew Cuomo who is currently under investigation of his handling of the pandemic instead of just about trump trump trump who isn't even in office anymore. At least feign some objectivity so people (me) don't become nauseated from the partisanship. Because that was not before the election? Which was the point I was making, I go on to say that it was less so by the time Biden swore. I said this because this is what happened. That you don't like it is on you.
I didn't dispute that's what happened. My point was that you're cherry picking. You're citing a time when it was peaking in the middle red states to show that there was a blue-red divide. The fact that there was an election around that time doesn't make it any less of a completely arbitrary timeframe to examine. You're right that Trump was making the same blue-red divide comparisons at the time when the red states were doing better than the blue states. He was rightly called an idiot for that so I'm not sure why you'd want to bring up that he was also making blue-red comparisons.
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Two old women in nursing homes here were injected with four times the recommended dose of Pfizer by a doctor who hadn't been trained properly.Odd story but thankfully no serious side effects and they seem to be doing OK.Doctor stood down.
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/13191010
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On February 25 2021 21:22 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Two old women in nursing homes here were injected with four times the recommended dose of Pfizer by a doctor who hadn't been trained properly.Odd story but thankfully no serious side effects and they seem to be doing OK.Doctor stood down. https://amp.abc.net.au/article/13191010
Not too much of a concern tbh beyond wasting some doses. It's not a live virus or attenuated viral vaccine where there's some risk of your immune system not being able to handle it.
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That was such a nothingburger. The only actual consequence is that the antivaxxers get a bit more ammunition.
The doctor and the company that "trained" him should be fed to the sharks for that alone, but it's barely worth mentioning except as a criticism of the bureaucracy. I'm very annoyed at the media here for how much they beat it up.
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On February 26 2021 06:30 Belisarius wrote:
That was such a nothingburger. The only actual consequence is that the antivaxxers get a bit more ammunition.
The doctor and the company that "trained" him should be fed to the sharks for that alone, but it's barely worth mentioning except as a criticism of the bureaucracy. I'm very annoyed at the media here for how much they beat it up.
I think if it's not being talked about, the conspiracy theorists receive even more ammunition. The best tool against misinformation is better information being spread at a higher rate. Also, we only knew in hindsight that it was in fact a nothingburger. A mishap like this can cause serious harm, depending on the substance that we're talking about.
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On February 26 2021 18:18 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2021 06:30 Belisarius wrote:
That was such a nothingburger. The only actual consequence is that the antivaxxers get a bit more ammunition.
The doctor and the company that "trained" him should be fed to the sharks for that alone, but it's barely worth mentioning except as a criticism of the bureaucracy. I'm very annoyed at the media here for how much they beat it up. I think if it's not being talked about, the conspiracy theorists receive even more ammunition. The best tool against misinformation is better information being spread at a higher rate. Also, we only knew in hindsight that it was in fact a nothingburger. A mishap like this can cause serious harm, depending on the substance that we're talking about.
Large doses were tested in the trials to test dosage levels required. Presumably emptying a vial into someone, or the equivalent quantity of vaccine into someone was tested, and found to not be seriously harmful.
Side note:
https://financialpost.com/news/fp-street/canadas-finance-ministry-calls-report-of-cppib-ceos-overseas-trip-for-covid-shot-very-troubling
As expected, some rich people are flying to places where they can get vaccine and getting vaccinated. I'd really be much happier if they just paid a few 100k, to get it through an officially sanctioned channel in Canada. Funds go back into our country rather than to some foreign nation.
The AZ vaccine just got approved in Canada too. Not as good as the mRNA vaccines and questionably effective against variants, but honestly, for anyone under the age of 50 or so, just get the first one you can. I know I can deal with a cold/flu well enough, and if it reduces a covid infection to that level of discomfort, I'm all for it. I'm still essentially last in line though, 20s and no underlying conditions.
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Many of my friends who received AZ vaccine (teachers and doctors) complain that it hs very unpleasant sideeffects (heat and weakness) for 1-2 days, while almost none of those who received Pfizer complain about that. Is there any true to that? I mean statisticly speking is AZ more prone to produce flu like symptoms?
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I heard similar "sideeffects" from the Biontech vaccinations. So I think there is not much difference in the reactions.
Those "reactions" are expected.
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I had my second Moderna shot on Wednesday and I felt pretty terrible the next day for about 12 hours. Several people I know have said similar things. From what they told me at the vaccination site, it seems like flu-like symptoms (w/o the cough) are fairly common over the next ~48 hours.
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I had my second dose of moderna administered Thursday. Compared to my first dose it was quite mild. Light fever and chills for the following two days. Nothing like the first one where my body felt like it got hit by a truck and I was bed ridden.
So it seems like if you reacted to the first dose strongly then the second dose will be milder. In my case anyways.
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Well timeline for second dose for mRNA vaccines was extended out to 4 months in BC, because they're seeing 90%+ efficacy after 3 weeks, even in extremely elderly individuals. There's also a ton of data coming from UK and elsewhere showing it's safe/advisable to do so.
That'll hopefully let me get a vaccine in May, which would be glorious. 1 month til I can stop worrying about my parents and 2-3 months left til I can breathe easy. Pretty happy about it being bumped up.
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On February 28 2021 09:47 Emnjay808 wrote:
I had my second dose of moderna administered Thursday. Compared to my first dose it was quite mild. Light fever and chills for the following two days. Nothing like the first one where my body felt like it got hit by a truck and I was bed ridden.
So it seems like if you reacted to the first dose strongly then the second dose will be milder. In my case anyways.
Feeling tightness in my chest area. Not necessarily painful, just mild discomfort. I can’t fully inhale/exhale without feeling uncomfortable pressure. Definitely hurts when I laugh. Haven’t experienced this before ever. Gonna give it another day before I call my doctor. Made it through my work day, at least.
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On March 02 2021 08:36 Emnjay808 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2021 09:47 Emnjay808 wrote:
I had my second dose of moderna administered Thursday. Compared to my first dose it was quite mild. Light fever and chills for the following two days. Nothing like the first one where my body felt like it got hit by a truck and I was bed ridden.
So it seems like if you reacted to the first dose strongly then the second dose will be milder. In my case anyways.
Feeling tightness in my chest area. Not necessarily painful, just mild discomfort. I can’t fully inhale/exhale without feeling uncomfortable pressure. Definitely hurts when I laugh. Haven’t experienced this before ever. Gonna give it another day before I call my doctor. Made it through my work day, at least.
Probably better to call sooner than later - Could just be a freak chance thing where something unrelated to the vaccine pops up right as you get it, or you got sick from something but was asymptomatic at the time of receiving the vaccine. Hopefully it's nothing.
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From a mathematical point of view, all western countries are using a pragmatic and ineffective vaccine strategy. According to this study, you would protect the most vulnerable more efficiently by vaccinating potential superspreaders first. The more close contacts you have, the more likely you are to both catch the virus and spread it to many people. Vaccinations to the most vulnerable does next to nothing to stop the spread.
The challenge is figuring out who those "most active" people are, but young healthcare workers, teachers and bartenders could be a good place to start.
https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PEA1068-1.html
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immediate preventing further deaths is priority number 1 i think. slowing and stopping the spread is no.2
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On March 02 2021 18:33 Slydie wrote:From a mathematical point of view, all western countries are using a pragmatic and ineffective vaccine strategy. According to this study, you would protect the most vulnerable more efficiently by vaccinating potential superspreaders first. The more close contacts you have, the more likely you are to both catch the virus and spread it to many people. Vaccinations to the most vulnerable does next to nothing to stop the spread. The challenge is figuring out who those "most active" people are, but young healthcare workers, teachers and bartenders could be a good place to start. https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PEA1068-1.html
I mean our vague strategy seems to have a ton of holes in it, this would probably be one. The vulnerable should be shielding where at all possible and be out of the firing line when it comes to spreading it on, so you’re allocating resources in protecting people who ideally shouldn’t need protecting right now. Whether it’s due to a lack of structural support or other factors I don’t see why I’m seeing really elderly people out for a wee shop together as if there’s not a pandemic happening. Likewise why are groups out?
I felt much more comfortable both personally but also in terms of viewing potential for others passing the virus when I was last in a bar than I have done working in retail at any point in ye olde pandemic times. A virus doesn’t care if something is essential or not, only if the conditions are conducive to it spreading, and I don’t think nearly enough has been done to make environments like shops and schools hostile to it.
On a wider scale why is there talk about international travel and holidays opening up again, least over here. That’s crazy if it’s not accompanied by coordinated and mandatory enforced quarantine periods. Surely a luxury we can do without for one summer, especially if bars and leisure at home can open again.
We could well end up with high numbers of our populations successfully vaccinated and safe to Covid and be in a position to start vaccinating the developing world, only to allow new variants to start crossing borders that are immune to our current vaccines.
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On March 02 2021 18:38 evilfatsh1t wrote:
immediate preventing further deaths is priority number 1 i think. slowing and stopping the spread is no.2
If you read the study, the best way to achieve #1 is really #2.
Going by potential superspreaders first also has the notable benefit that you can also open society quicker, with all the attached advantages.
In general, I have the impression that we humas are often emotional rather than rational in how we are dealing with this virus. If something feels moraly right, we assume it is also effective, but this is not always the case.
I have never heard about mass outbreaks in stores, but in bars, it happens all the time everywhere. Stores are not primarily social settings, there is usually no eating, drinking or alcohol involved, there is more space to move around and you stay in one place much less time. Bars and restaurants are WAY more dangerous, period.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qYT6Q8z.png)
