EPTMaybe this guy read "The Camel Club" and thought he'd blow everyone's minds with a terror attack that caused no direct harm.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 878
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
Maybe this guy read "The Camel Club" and thought he'd blow everyone's minds with a terror attack that caused no direct harm. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18275 Posts
On October 27 2018 17:30 Ansinjunger wrote: It would be stupid of the left or right to orchestrate these bomb attacks. They will be investigated under extreme public scrutiny. Still, I wouldn't put it past either side, and after Kavanaugh, I am even more suspicious of the left than usual, but that doesn't mean confirmation bias should run rampant. The right also needs to hear that facts don't care about their feelings. I would feel good if it was a leftist plot, but that wouldn't make the country better. Maybe this guy read "The Camel Club" and thought he'd blow everyone's minds with a terror attack that caused no direct harm. Seems you're a little behind on the news? | ||
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
On October 27 2018 17:30 Ansinjunger wrote: It would be stupid of the left or right to orchestrate these bomb attacks. They will be investigated under extreme public scrutiny. Still, I wouldn't put it past either side, and after Kavanaugh, I am even more suspicious of the left than usual, but that doesn't mean confirmation bias should run rampant. The right also needs to hear that facts don't care about their feelings. I would feel good if it was a leftist plot, but that wouldn't make the country better. Maybe this guy read "The Camel Club" and thought he'd blow everyone's minds with a terror attack that caused no direct harm. Why do people keep equivocating like this? I keep seeing it all over the place. You have NO REASON at all to be "suspicious of the left". Democrats have never mailed themselves 13 bombs before or staged a complicated false flag attack to get sympathy. People don't do that period. Why the fuck would they suddenly start now? And do you know the political damage that would be caused if a party was caught doing that? Do you comprehend the risk? So tired of the conspiracy horseshit. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22283 Posts
On October 27 2018 22:34 Ayaz2810 wrote: Because people believe that the allegations against Kavanaugh are a fake attack by the Democrats that they began to orchestrate half a decade ago on the tiny chance he was going to end up as a possible Supreme Court nominee.Why do people keep equivocating like this? I keep seeing it all over the place. You have NO REASON at all to be "suspicious of the left". Democrats have never mailed themselves 13 bombs before or staged a complicated false flag attack to get sympathy. People don't do that period. Why the fuck would they suddenly start now? And do you know the political damage that would be caused if a party was caught doing that? Do you comprehend the risk? So tired of the conspiracy horseshit. So, if they did that they could do this. Or something to that effect. Which ignore the investigations that are launched into bomb mails, especially when you send them to people protected by the Secret Service. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9037 Posts
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On October 28 2018 00:21 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Mass shooting in PIttsburgh. Breaking. I wish we could begin reigning in the rhetoric in these rallies and on twitter, but I get the feeling death and fear and violence are acceptable as long as the right people are in power. | ||
micronesia
United States24769 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On October 28 2018 00:43 micronesia wrote: The link between Trump's reckless behavior and violent criminals taking action is not as clear-cut in today's case as it was with the pipe bomb mailing self-proclaimed conservative. Obviously, we need to wait until more information comes out about today's shooting in Pittsburgh to draw more conclusions. Trump has emboldened some racists but as far as I've seen, never showed support, directly or indirectly, for opposition to Jews. If the left's leadership is quick to try to use this as additional evidence that Trump and his followers' rhetoric is destructive, the counterarguments write themselves. Not so with the pipe bomb mailer. Yeah. This definitely makes another case for gun control, and proactive law enforcement in the case of reports of suspicious people and activities. Less so that Trump is the cause of everything. Of course, reading between the lines a little bit, he's certainly happy to take money from things like the NRA, and to support candidates who are likewise endorsed by the NRA, so I can't imagine he feels too strongly that yet another shooting has taken place. He's already on top of his thoughts and prayers for the day. | ||
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KwarK
United States43938 Posts
On October 28 2018 00:43 micronesia wrote: The link between Trump's reckless behavior and violent criminals taking action is not as clear-cut in today's case as it was with the pipe bomb mailing self-proclaimed conservative. Obviously, we need to wait until more information comes out about today's shooting in Pittsburgh to draw more conclusions. Trump has emboldened some racists but as far as I've seen, never showed support, directly or indirectly, for opposition to Jews. If the left's leadership is quick to try to use this as additional evidence that Trump and his followers' rhetoric is destructive, the counterarguments write themselves. Not so with the pipe bomb mailer. The (((globalist))) conspiracy is the old Elders of Zion conspiracy theory repackaged through changing literally one word, Jew for (((globalist))). | ||
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Panthous
30 Posts
In the mean time, Trump is gaining in approval and a country like Brazil want their own version of Trump because they love what they see happening in the US. And in the UK, Brexit negotiations are going to fail because the Brexit people still believe in a Mythical Unicorn Land where Brexit will give them a better deal with the EU countries as a non-member because the EU can simply not live without a deal (and the UK somehow can, lol). How can UK voters after 2 years still believe they will have a better deal with the EU as a non-member than they had as a member? And as long as these voters can still be made to believe that, Brexit voters will demand from May, or any successor, a better deal claiming the UK simply isn't negotiating hard enough. The fact is, these people are deplorable and we as a humanity cannot continue with them. Yes, they had actual grievances. But that doesn't justify voting to destroy democracy and thus western civilization. We need really absurd measures to move forward for this. In fact, there is no real good way to move forward from this. You would need to rescind their right to vote. At some point, Trump will be in jail (or in exile in Russia) and these people can still vote. Trump is not the problem. These people voting are. There are literally thousands of wannabe Trumps, many of them more competent. What is to stop all these voters from deciding Trump failed because he wasn't 'Trumpian' enough ,but this new candidate is? In fact, even the democrats are now saying they need their own version of Trump to win the 2020 presidential election. And either that means a vile demagogue or a reality show tv star, they don't know yet. But surely, the democrats won't risk running a boring candidate like Joe Biden vs Trump. At some point they are going to believe that only Dwayne Johnson can beat Trump in a 2020 election. And yes, the center and the center-left do have some soul searching to do on how they failed to protect the weakest elements of society against the negatives of globalization (the actual left has always been critical of globaization, which at the same time is a good indicator for who is center-left or actual left, ie Clinton cannot be a leftist as she fully backed globalization (insert either Hillary or Bill). As great as globalization has been for every country as a whole, certain minorities have really suffered through it, and no solution was offered. | ||
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Panthous
30 Posts
On October 28 2018 00:43 micronesia wrote: The link between Trump's reckless behavior and violent criminals taking action is not as clear-cut in today's case as it was with the pipe bomb mailing self-proclaimed conservative. Obviously, we need to wait until more information comes out about today's shooting in Pittsburgh to draw more conclusions. Trump has emboldened some racists but as far as I've seen, never showed support, directly or indirectly, for opposition to Jews. If the left's leadership is quick to try to use this as additional evidence that Trump and his followers' rhetoric is destructive, the counterarguments write themselves. Not so with the pipe bomb mailer. If Bush's 'war on terror' didn't give the green light to all tyrannical regimes in the world to go all out on their oppositions (it did), Trump's compete dismantling of the illusion of western moral standards just makes the dictators around the world more brazen. They no longer have to point out the hypocrisy of the west when then west criticizes human rights violations. Now, Trump will do it for them and at the same praise them for violating human rights: “Hey, when you take over a country, tough country, with tough people, and you take it over from your father, I don’t care who you are, what you are, how much of an advantage you have,” Trump said in the interview. “If you can do that at 27 years old, I mean that’s one in 10,000 that could do that.” is a literal praise for Un purging his fathers advisors and killing family members and his literally torture concentration camps where according to Amnesty up to 120,000 people are held prisoner. Can you imagine how it feels to be a North Korean, listening to western media through USB sticks smuggled in, giving you a sparkle of hope, and now hearing the US leader praise Un for torturing tens of thousands of people? It is absolutely sickening and US voters may have started the end of human civilization. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On October 28 2018 00:43 micronesia wrote: The link between Trump's reckless behavior and violent criminals taking action is not as clear-cut in today's case as it was with the pipe bomb mailing self-proclaimed conservative. Obviously, we need to wait until more information comes out about today's shooting in Pittsburgh to draw more conclusions. Trump has emboldened some racists but as far as I've seen, never showed support, directly or indirectly, for opposition to Jews. If the left's leadership is quick to try to use this as additional evidence that Trump and his followers' rhetoric is destructive, the counterarguments write themselves. Not so with the pipe bomb mailer. Of course it is. Right wing nuts in the US have hated Jews forever. The neo-nazi groups in America - ALL OF THEM - have claimed that Donald Trump tacitly or fully supports them, and he's equivocated about denouncing them in the past. The counterarguments might write themselves, but they're still stupid. He wouldn't have been inspired by anything Trump has said directly, but I doubt the pipe bomb mailer is either. It's the broad language of violence that is the problem, and Trump 100% has to take the blame for ramping it up at every turn in every way. | ||
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micronesia
United States24769 Posts
On October 28 2018 01:59 iamthedave wrote: Of course it is. Right wing nuts in the US have hated Jews forever. The neo-nazi groups in America - ALL OF THEM - have claimed that Donald Trump tacitly or fully supports them, and he's equivocated about denouncing them in the past. The counterarguments might write themselves, but they're still stupid. He wouldn't have been inspired by anything Trump has said directly, but I doubt the pipe bomb mailer is either. It's the broad language of violence that is the problem, and Trump 100% has to take the blame for ramping it up at every turn in every way. The difference is that Trump demonizes liberal leaders regularly (who were then targeted by a conservative nutjob with pipe bombs), but does not demonize the Jews. It's true that the groups of deplorable folks who want to exterminate the Jews feel more empowered by Trump than by previous presidents (of course), but it's not so clear that that is why today's shooting happened. What we can say is that Trump's behavior, and that of many of his followers, is going to result in more events like the one today, whether or not he is actually responsible for today's event. To take it a step further and say "you did this" is not reasonable even though I think it was for the pipe bomb mailer. To do so is counterproductive. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On October 28 2018 02:04 micronesia wrote: The difference is that Trump demonizes liberal leaders regularly (who were then targeted by a conservative nutjob with pipe bombs), but does not demonize the Jews. It's true that the groups of deplorable folks who want to exterminate the Jews feel more empowered by Trump than by previous presidents (of course), but it's not so clear that that is why today's shooting happened. What we can say is that Trump's behavior, and that of many of his followers, is going to result in more events like the one today, whether or not he is actually responsible for today's event. To take it a step further and say "you did this" is not reasonable even though I think it was for the pipe bomb mailer. To do so is counterproductive. Every time Trump says globalist or globalism, they hear him say Jews. There is a reason Soros is singled out. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22283 Posts
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micronesia
United States24769 Posts
On October 28 2018 02:42 Mohdoo wrote: Every time Trump says globalist or globalism, they hear him say Jews. There is a reason Soros is singled out. Do you think Trump is intentionally using a word that means Jews to neo-nazi's and the like? I didn't think so, but if so then yea that changes the dynamic of this a lot. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22283 Posts
On October 28 2018 02:55 micronesia wrote: Trump might not know that globalist = jew but he knows that his supporters like hearing globalists get blamed for shit.Do you think Trump is intentionally using a word that means Jews to neo-nazi's and the like? I didn't think so, but if so then yea that changes the dynamic of this a lot. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On October 27 2018 11:21 CosmicSpiral wrote: Arguably modern academic philosophy is less relevant, less logically sound, and less robust in explanatory power than the Greeks post-Aristotle or medieval Islam. It certainly has less public cache than the pre-WWII era of analytic philosophy or the resurgence of virtue ethics in the 60s-70s among the British schools. Coincidentally this intellectual regression is one of my main critiques of modern liberalism.  With the exception of disciplines that rely heavily on quantitative measurement, claims of progress are usually either attempts at self-justification or merely noting that the discipline's sensibilities have changed in accordance with the general culture. What are you thinking of when you say "modern academic philosophy?" Analytic philosophers publishing papers written in formal logic notation about a counterexample to a counterexample to a counterexample? TED-talk givers like Alain de Botton doing a kind of philosopho-poetics? Feminists? | ||
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KwarK
United States43938 Posts
On October 28 2018 02:55 micronesia wrote: Do you think Trump is intentionally using a word that means Jews to neo-nazi's and the like? I didn't think so, but if so then yea that changes the dynamic of this a lot. It’s really hard to tell with Trump. He literally doesn’t acknowledge reality a lot of the time. He’s the man who, when meeting Vietnam vets who tried to speak to him about health benefits for Agent Orange related problems, turned it into an hour long argument about whether Agent Orange was the stuff they were using in the movie Apocalypse Now, where they famously loved the smell of napalm in the morning. He insisted that it was, and when they disagreed would not let it go. He spent the entire meeting grilling each one individually on whether that was Agent Orange or napalm, then had them vote on who was right, then dismissed them all. If every morning Jared told him that globalist meant Jew and to ease up on it Trump would still be insisting that he’d never even met Jared by lunchtime, and would probably believe it. We just don’t know with him. We can’t. | ||
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KwarK
United States43938 Posts
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