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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3125

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

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Husyelt
Profile Blog Joined May 2020
United States839 Posts
March 24 2021 04:59 GMT
#62481
I feel like the Las Vegas massacre was a bigger pusher than the Newtown Sandy Hook one. Nothing real came of it of course besides bump-stocks, but the death count was simply too high. These last two mass shootings are nothingburgers beyond the talking heads saying "brown muslims bad" / "white incels bad."


You're getting cynical and that won't do I'd throw the rose tint back on the exploded view
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 24 2021 05:16 GMT
#62482
I think it'd take a full blown uprising. Storming the capital, backed by similar dumb shitty reasons, on a national level scale.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
March 24 2021 05:22 GMT
#62483
On March 24 2021 09:03 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2021 08:23 ChristianS wrote:
On March 24 2021 06:41 KwarK wrote:
On March 24 2021 06:23 Artisreal wrote:
What does it say about the US society that the overwhelming number of mass shootings are perpetrated by men?
What pressures drive them to killing others?
How and why do they fail and get so desperate or agitated, enraged, that they feel that this is their best option left, maybe even their only option left?

Just speculation but I think you need a lot of entitlement to think that whatever shit you have going on justifies taking it out on the world. It’s not enough to have the world treat you like shit, you have to have a sense of betrayal over that. You have to believe that the world owes you better treatment than you received and that it should be punished for the failure to give you what you deserve.

Less privileged groups are probably more likely to respond to adversity with suicide or whatever because they don’t experience the cognitive dissonance of believing that whatever bad thing is happening is a fundamental injustice. You can’t crusade against the general randomness and unfairness of the universe as a whole.

Society can’t fail to deliver on its promises if it never made any. White men were promised more, society’s failures hurt them differently.

IIRC regarding suicide specifically, the opposite dynamic usually occurs. Suicide is relatively higher among privileged populations, homicide relatively lower. The usual explanation being that it’s easier to attribute your problems externally if you’re underprivileged. If you feel like shit and like you’ll never amount to anything, but you’re rich and white and male and your dad tried to get you cushy jobs but you couldn’t hack it, it’s a lot harder to convince yourself it’s the world’s fault you failed.

Of course, homicide is one thing, and school shooting is another. I’m also speculating, but I think the rarer incel-type violence follows something closer to the dynamic you’re describing. Two or three generations removed from the absolute dominance of the world’s wealth we acquired after the world wars, it’s simply impossible to offer even the privileged in our society the same standard of living their parents and grandparents had, and a certain kind of shitty rich kid will occasionally decide that a) this is unforgivable, and b) it’s the fault of egalitarian social change over that period. Elliott Rodgers-type shooters clearly derive a lot of their motivation from a sense that everybody around them owes them some kind of fealty or tribute or something, and it’s hard for me not to think some part of that comes from the relative loss of upper class (or maybe upper-middle class) privilege.

Of course, the vast majority of upper-middle class white boys don’t shoot anybody, so there’s a lot more to the etiology than that. But TL;DR I’d guess you’re right overall but wrong on some particulars.

Additionally I don’t think an Eliot Roger really gets there alone, he probably looked for friendship and camaraderie in quite a few places before sifting down into the incel world and had his views reinforced and made more extreme.

I can’t think of many more destructive ‘communities’ outside of the pro-anorexia support networks than incels. I’m not sure if any of you guys have ever talked to one mano o mano but it’s a tragically destructive circle. Obviously want companionship as most of us do, get bitter, get surrounded by even more people, become worse at interacting with the object of romantic desire because of your bitter views, and so the cycle goes.

No amount of logic really punctures through, although I hope most of them can grow out of it.

From my limited understanding they mostly seem to rail against the decline of a predictable social order, although I think that stems from an idealised view on how the past actually was and nothing too related to class entitlement or what have you.


I’ve heard it argued that we’re going through similar cultural forces to those Japan went through ~30 years ago. As the story goes, economic conditions lead to a younger generation slowly figuring out that despite supposed economic growth and improving technology, they’re just not going to have the same opportunities their parents had, and they can’t really picture conditions that would allow them to, say, buy a house. At the same time that technology *is* providing a lot of fantastic types of distraction to retreat to, and more and more people wind up spending just about all their time online. Image board culture is born out of these types of people, and for all their joking and trolling there’s a kind of latent rage in these communities at the world for being so circumscribed. This catches on over here just as economic conditions leave our generation with the same sense of hopelessness.

I’m not sure I buy 100% of that story, but it’s clearly true the internet has created a path to self-radicalization for those so inclined, and that stuff like what I’ve heard called the “affordability crisis” creates some of the discontentment that leads a few to that inclination. Hank Green (a prominent YouTuber) made a video just after the capitol insurrection talking about how influencers are incentivized toward more and more extremist political viewpoints, and conspiracy theories give people a way to feel like they matter where our society usually makes them feel like they don’t. Idk, there’s always a million trends to keep track of when talking about “cultural forces” and nothing’s quantifiable and I get kind of bewildered.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24387 Posts
March 24 2021 20:47 GMT
#62484
Kamala Harris pairing up with Bill Clinton of all people for a 1 on 1 discussion about the impact of the pandemic on/empowering women while Democrats balk at impeaching Cuomo seems kinda ridiculous to me.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
March 24 2021 21:53 GMT
#62485
On March 25 2021 05:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
Kamala Harris pairing up with Bill Clinton of all people for a 1 on 1 discussion about the impact of the pandemic on/empowering women while Democrats balk at impeaching Cuomo seems kinda ridiculous to me.


Yeah what in the god damn hell is Bill Clinton doing there? Holy shit get that dirt bag the FUCK out of here.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44373 Posts
March 24 2021 21:57 GMT
#62486
On March 25 2021 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2021 05:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
Kamala Harris pairing up with Bill Clinton of all people for a 1 on 1 discussion about the impact of the pandemic on/empowering women while Democrats balk at impeaching Cuomo seems kinda ridiculous to me.


Yeah what in the god damn hell is Bill Clinton doing there? Holy shit get that dirt bag the FUCK out of here.

At a certain point you have to wonder if the Democratic elite are match fixing.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8760 Posts
March 24 2021 22:51 GMT
#62487
yah. at least take the woman-robot hybrid Clinton model to make it less obvious.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
March 25 2021 03:47 GMT
#62488
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/03/24/newsom-swats-away-democratic-challengers-will-his-party-live-to-regret-it-1369438

Democrats are protecting Newsom from democrat challengers. I hope we end up with a republican governor of California. This is just awful. 2nd worse Democrat gov by far
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24387 Posts
March 25 2021 18:06 GMT
#62489
Biden said he is expecting to run for re-election in 2024 during his first press conference today.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-25 18:23:46
March 25 2021 18:22 GMT
#62490
I'd take Biden over Harris, which are the current front runners. I'm not sure he'll be able to run in 2024 due to his age. Harris isn't charismatic enough and has too much baggage. Even with that announcement the front runner is still "someone else" for 2024 imo.

There's plenty to criticize about Biden, but the media is focusing on some of the dumbest issues. Not sure if that's on purpose or not. (The recent one is that he's thin skinned because he won't hold press conferences. Uh, the president shouldn't have TIME for more than a couple a year. It's like they forgot that Trump never held formal ones and his informal ones were because he was flying between golf courses and wanted to shout in front of a chopper. Another news site wrote an article claiming he was using COVID to hide from the press since they made the press room really long).

Immediately after all this criticism he holds a press conference where they lob right wing talking points at him and then go all *surprised pikachu* when he's annoyed.

The current one is about migrant conditions at the border. They're not amazing, but people at the border are up what, 500% since he got elected? Additionally, the agencies running these borders are openly anti-Biden and going to do everything in their power to make him look bad. They're overcrowding facilities and then blaming Biden for their own human rights abuses. He should still do something about it, but it's just as overblown as the "caravan" was.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
March 25 2021 18:26 GMT
#62491
The media at large is suffering from the decreased interest in politics incident to Biden's presidency, so I think they're lashing out in the hopes they can stir up viewership.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
March 25 2021 18:36 GMT
#62492
--- Nuked ---
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24387 Posts
March 25 2021 18:42 GMT
#62493
On March 26 2021 03:22 Nevuk wrote:
I'd take Biden over Harris, which are the current front runners. I'm not sure he'll be able to run in 2024 due to his age. Harris isn't charismatic enough and has too much baggage. Even with that announcement the front runner is still "someone else" for 2024 imo.

There's plenty to criticize about Biden, but the media is focusing on some of the dumbest issues. Not sure if that's on purpose or not. (The recent one is that he's thin skinned because he won't hold press conferences. Uh, the president shouldn't have TIME for more than a couple a year. It's like they forgot that Trump never held formal ones and his informal ones were because he was flying between golf courses and wanted to shout in front of a chopper. Another news site wrote an article claiming he was using COVID to hide from the press since they made the press room really long).

Immediately after all this criticism he holds a press conference where they lob right wing talking points at him and then go all *surprised pikachu* when he's annoyed.

The current one is about migrant conditions at the border. They're not amazing, but people at the border are up what, 500% since he got elected? Additionally, the agencies running these borders are openly anti-Biden and going to do everything in their power to make him look bad. They're overcrowding facilities and then blaming Biden for their own human rights abuses. He should still do something about it, but it's just as overblown as the "caravan" was.

If Biden doesn't want a primary, it's going to be very hard for Democrats to have one. Biden expecting to run in 2024 means he doesn't want a primary.

Biden's failures at the border aren't a "dumb issue" imo. I recently pointed out how despite being the wealthiest country on the planet we don't ensure citizen children have reliably safe drinking water. There's no reasonable excuse for that. I feel similarly about children on the border living under criminal conditions. The lack of basic human hygiene requirements like toothbrushes is a problem going back to Biden's tenure as VP so it isn't a recent development.

From my perspective the Biden administration is already quite apparently monstrous, and only viewed otherwise by comparing him to worse.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
March 25 2021 18:58 GMT
#62494
--- Nuked ---
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46514 Posts
March 25 2021 20:13 GMT
#62495
On March 26 2021 03:58 JimmiC wrote:
It would have been shocking if Biden didn't say that. Has anyone ever announced they won't be running again in their first press conference?

Lots can happen in 3 years, I'm with Nevek in someone else as the front runner. But if he's popular and the Reps are going to run it back with Trump, I could see the Dems running it back.


In unrelated news I'm watching parks and rec and the Biden cameo was last night, (Leslie the main character has a huge crush on Biden, gets to meet him and hits of him super hard) was extra funny given he's now the president and everything that has gone on.


Her interaction with Michelle Obama is amazing too

If Biden continues to wrangle in this pandemic, I could see him beating Trump / the next Republican nominee, as long as he also does a few other things that liberals/progressives would like to see, like helping Congress pass universal healthcare.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
March 25 2021 20:18 GMT
#62496
--- Nuked ---
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32755 Posts
March 25 2021 21:25 GMT
#62497
Universal healthcare passing the Senate in this polarized environment? Can't see it happening unless some truly momentous event happens, like the conservative vote splitting in two parties or Biden getting 90% approval by the midterms and 2024. Incumbency is a strong advantage and if Biden can keep his approval at around the mid-50s range and maintain the image of a trustworthy executive who shepherded the country through COVID, and all his spending on the relief bill and infrastructure doesn't cause crippling inflation, I don't think he needs to pass anything as ambitious and dramatic as UHC to fend off a Republican in 2024.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46514 Posts
March 25 2021 21:45 GMT
#62498
Perhaps simply building off Obamacare then, and improving it? I know a lot of people would love having easier, affordable access to healthcare, even if it's not pure universal healthcare. I think the child tax credit is a nice bonus for him as well, and I think if the economy recovers and he avoids some terrible drama, he'll be in good shape. What he does (or doesn't do) with regards to illegal immigration, costs of college, the environment, and healthcare might affect how eager Democrats will be to vote for him.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
StasisField
Profile Joined August 2013
United States1086 Posts
March 26 2021 00:05 GMT
#62499
On March 26 2021 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2021 03:58 JimmiC wrote:
It would have been shocking if Biden didn't say that. Has anyone ever announced they won't be running again in their first press conference?

Lots can happen in 3 years, I'm with Nevek in someone else as the front runner. But if he's popular and the Reps are going to run it back with Trump, I could see the Dems running it back.


In unrelated news I'm watching parks and rec and the Biden cameo was last night, (Leslie the main character has a huge crush on Biden, gets to meet him and hits of him super hard) was extra funny given he's now the president and everything that has gone on.


Her interaction with Michelle Obama is amazing too

If Biden continues to wrangle in this pandemic, I could see him beating Trump / the next Republican nominee, as long as he also does a few other things that liberals/progressives would like to see, like helping Congress pass universal healthcare.

Biden said on the campaign trail that he would veto UHC if it made it to his desk. There's no chance it even gets that far but even if it does it's not happening while he's in office.
What do you mean Immortals can't shoot up?
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46514 Posts
March 26 2021 00:24 GMT
#62500
On March 26 2021 09:05 StasisField wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2021 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 26 2021 03:58 JimmiC wrote:
It would have been shocking if Biden didn't say that. Has anyone ever announced they won't be running again in their first press conference?

Lots can happen in 3 years, I'm with Nevek in someone else as the front runner. But if he's popular and the Reps are going to run it back with Trump, I could see the Dems running it back.


In unrelated news I'm watching parks and rec and the Biden cameo was last night, (Leslie the main character has a huge crush on Biden, gets to meet him and hits of him super hard) was extra funny given he's now the president and everything that has gone on.


Her interaction with Michelle Obama is amazing too

If Biden continues to wrangle in this pandemic, I could see him beating Trump / the next Republican nominee, as long as he also does a few other things that liberals/progressives would like to see, like helping Congress pass universal healthcare.

Biden said on the campaign trail that he would veto UHC if it made it to his desk. There's no chance it even gets that far but even if it does it's not happening while he's in office.


I thought that was specifically M4A, not other possible universal healthcare proposals?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
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