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On March 20 2021 19:21 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2021 07:05 StasisField wrote:
I agree that the 100 million vaccines in 100 days messaging has been great for Biden and co. Not only are we going to blow that number out of the water but we are also doing a much better job at getting everyone vaccinated compared to many other countries. I don't quite not quite like that Biden is using what Trump & co did badly as an excuse to give the previous administration zero credit for the vaccine program. If the election had been a few months later, it might even have been enough to win for Trump.
But republicans are bad! Qanon! Racism! Nevermind no minimum wage increase (8 of these angelic democrats voted against it) and no actually progressive reforms.
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On March 20 2021 19:21 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2021 07:05 StasisField wrote:
I agree that the 100 million vaccines in 100 days messaging has been great for Biden and co. Not only are we going to blow that number out of the water but we are also doing a much better job at getting everyone vaccinated compared to many other countries. I don't quite not quite like that Biden is using what Trump & co did badly as an excuse to give the previous administration zero credit for the vaccine program. If the election had been a few months later, it might even have been enough to win for Trump.
Wasn't the previous administrations plan to let the states bid for the vaccines ? The same administration that refused to share any informations with the president elect for months ? Why would anyone credit Trump except for the bare minimum of throwing money at it ? At least the army had bullets this time i guess
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Given that Trump left office with a vaccination rate of a mere 900k/day and rapidly rising, it's truly mind-boggling how quickly Biden turned it around to make "100m in 100 days" a reality.
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On March 21 2021 01:13 LegalLord wrote:
Given that Trump left office with a vaccination rate of a mere 900k/day and rapidly rising, it's truly mind-boggling how quickly Biden turned it around to make "100m in 100 days" a reality.
Yeah as an Oregonian I’m not seeing what Biden has done to help. Other states are open to everyone while Oregon is still on 65+. This is stupid.
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What does it say about the US society that the overwhelming number of mass shootings are perpetrated by men?
What pressures drive them to killing others?
How and why do they fail and get so desperate or agitated, enraged, that they feel that this is their best option left, maybe even their only option left?
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I don't think that they "by men" says a lot about the US specifically. As far as i know, most violent crime around the world is done by men. At least for mass shootings i am pretty sure about that, since i cannot even recall a single one done by a woman.
So whatever makes men more likely to do mass shootings than women can not be a US thing specifically. However, what is almost certainly a US thing is that there are just so many mass shootings.
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The perpetrators of mass shootings has never been about mass shootings being their only option left.
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On March 24 2021 06:23 Artisreal wrote:
What does it say about the US society that the overwhelming number of mass shootings are perpetrated by men?
What pressures drive them to killing others?
How and why do they fail and get so desperate or agitated, enraged, that they feel that this is their best option left, maybe even their only option left?
Men are disproportionate in all aspects of crime and murder. I'd say in almost all mass shooting cases, these men feel alone from society and want to leave some mark. Isolation coupled with thousands of thoughts everyday that fork in horrible ways leads to this kind of shit. Not to mention sexual or religious frustrations which clouds their judgement.
And to top it off we get sexy Nightcrawler news coverage 24/7 which promotes more.
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United States42759 Posts
On March 24 2021 06:23 Artisreal wrote:
What does it say about the US society that the overwhelming number of mass shootings are perpetrated by men?
What pressures drive them to killing others?
How and why do they fail and get so desperate or agitated, enraged, that they feel that this is their best option left, maybe even their only option left?
Just speculation but I think you need a lot of entitlement to think that whatever shit you have going on justifies taking it out on the world. It’s not enough to have the world treat you like shit, you have to have a sense of betrayal over that. You have to believe that the world owes you better treatment than you received and that it should be punished for the failure to give you what you deserve.
Less privileged groups are probably more likely to respond to adversity with suicide or whatever because they don’t experience the cognitive dissonance of believing that whatever bad thing is happening is a fundamental injustice. You can’t crusade against the general randomness and unfairness of the universe as a whole.
Society can’t fail to deliver on its promises if it never made any. White men were promised more, society’s failures hurt them differently.
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On March 24 2021 06:54 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2021 06:23 Artisreal wrote:
What does it say about the US society that the overwhelming number of mass shootings are perpetrated by men?
What pressures drive them to killing others?
How and why do they fail and get so desperate or agitated, enraged, that they feel that this is their best option left, maybe even their only option left? What does it say about US society that almost all the mass shootings in developed countries happen in the US?
I don't know what it'll take for US society to do something sensible about guns, or if it's even possible. I'm expecting the usual 'we must pass gun reform' theatrics that never go anywhere from the left and the usual 'they will never take our guns' posturing from the right. I very much doubt that gun control is the hill that Biden wants to die on.
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On March 24 2021 07:55 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2021 06:54 JimmiC wrote:On March 24 2021 06:23 Artisreal wrote:
What does it say about the US society that the overwhelming number of mass shootings are perpetrated by men?
What pressures drive them to killing others?
How and why do they fail and get so desperate or agitated, enraged, that they feel that this is their best option left, maybe even their only option left? What does it say about US society that almost all the mass shootings in developed countries happen in the US? I don't know what it'll take for US society to do something sensible about guns, or if it's even possible. I'm expecting the usual 'we must pass gun reform' theatrics that never go anywhere from the left and the usual 'they will never take our guns' posturing from the right. I very much doubt that gun control is the hill that Biden wants to die on.
Aides are prepping a 3trillion dollar jobs and infrastructure package for him to look over. That's going to take some political capital to get passed. Which would mean they'll need to end the filibuster or restructure it. After that, there's getting ACA rebuilt so that it does a lot more than it currently does.
If anything, I say there will be strong legislation brought forward, but as you said, it ultimately won't lead anywhere meaningful. There's no EO that he could sign that wouldn't get overturned in courts and ultimately have the SC shoot down.
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On March 24 2021 06:41 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2021 06:23 Artisreal wrote:
What does it say about the US society that the overwhelming number of mass shootings are perpetrated by men?
What pressures drive them to killing others?
How and why do they fail and get so desperate or agitated, enraged, that they feel that this is their best option left, maybe even their only option left? Just speculation but I think you need a lot of entitlement to think that whatever shit you have going on justifies taking it out on the world. It’s not enough to have the world treat you like shit, you have to have a sense of betrayal over that. You have to believe that the world owes you better treatment than you received and that it should be punished for the failure to give you what you deserve. Less privileged groups are probably more likely to respond to adversity with suicide or whatever because they don’t experience the cognitive dissonance of believing that whatever bad thing is happening is a fundamental injustice. You can’t crusade against the general randomness and unfairness of the universe as a whole. Society can’t fail to deliver on its promises if it never made any. White men were promised more, society’s failures hurt them differently.
IIRC regarding suicide specifically, the opposite dynamic usually occurs. Suicide is relatively higher among privileged populations, homicide relatively lower. The usual explanation being that it’s easier to attribute your problems externally if you’re underprivileged. If you feel like shit and like you’ll never amount to anything, but you’re rich and white and male and your dad tried to get you cushy jobs but you couldn’t hack it, it’s a lot harder to convince yourself it’s the world’s fault you failed.
Of course, homicide is one thing, and school shooting is another. I’m also speculating, but I think the rarer incel-type violence follows something closer to the dynamic you’re describing. Two or three generations removed from the absolute dominance of the world’s wealth we acquired after the world wars, it’s simply impossible to offer even the privileged in our society the same standard of living their parents and grandparents had, and a certain kind of shitty rich kid will occasionally decide that a) this is unforgivable, and b) it’s the fault of egalitarian social change over that period. Elliott Rodgers-type shooters clearly derive a lot of their motivation from a sense that everybody around them owes them some kind of fealty or tribute or something, and it’s hard for me not to think some part of that comes from the relative loss of upper class (or maybe upper-middle class) privilege.
Of course, the vast majority of upper-middle class white boys don’t shoot anybody, so there’s a lot more to the etiology than that. But TL;DR I’d guess you’re right overall but wrong on some particulars.
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On March 24 2021 07:55 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2021 06:54 JimmiC wrote:On March 24 2021 06:23 Artisreal wrote:
What does it say about the US society that the overwhelming number of mass shootings are perpetrated by men?
What pressures drive them to killing others?
How and why do they fail and get so desperate or agitated, enraged, that they feel that this is their best option left, maybe even their only option left? What does it say about US society that almost all the mass shootings in developed countries happen in the US? I don't know what it'll take for US society to do something sensible about guns, or if it's even possible. I'm expecting the usual 'we must pass gun reform' theatrics that never go anywhere from the left and the usual 'they will never take our guns' posturing from the right. I very much doubt that gun control is the hill that Biden wants to die on.
It's not, despite likely being the single most popular proposal (universal background checks) they could come up with. Universal background checks is definitely not a magic wand solution, but it's ridiculously popular and something Democrats should have already put to a vote imo.
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Northern Ireland25435 Posts
On March 24 2021 08:23 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2021 06:41 KwarK wrote:On March 24 2021 06:23 Artisreal wrote:
What does it say about the US society that the overwhelming number of mass shootings are perpetrated by men?
What pressures drive them to killing others?
How and why do they fail and get so desperate or agitated, enraged, that they feel that this is their best option left, maybe even their only option left? Just speculation but I think you need a lot of entitlement to think that whatever shit you have going on justifies taking it out on the world. It’s not enough to have the world treat you like shit, you have to have a sense of betrayal over that. You have to believe that the world owes you better treatment than you received and that it should be punished for the failure to give you what you deserve. Less privileged groups are probably more likely to respond to adversity with suicide or whatever because they don’t experience the cognitive dissonance of believing that whatever bad thing is happening is a fundamental injustice. You can’t crusade against the general randomness and unfairness of the universe as a whole. Society can’t fail to deliver on its promises if it never made any. White men were promised more, society’s failures hurt them differently. IIRC regarding suicide specifically, the opposite dynamic usually occurs. Suicide is relatively higher among privileged populations, homicide relatively lower. The usual explanation being that it’s easier to attribute your problems externally if you’re underprivileged. If you feel like shit and like you’ll never amount to anything, but you’re rich and white and male and your dad tried to get you cushy jobs but you couldn’t hack it, it’s a lot harder to convince yourself it’s the world’s fault you failed. Of course, homicide is one thing, and school shooting is another. I’m also speculating, but I think the rarer incel-type violence follows something closer to the dynamic you’re describing. Two or three generations removed from the absolute dominance of the world’s wealth we acquired after the world wars, it’s simply impossible to offer even the privileged in our society the same standard of living their parents and grandparents had, and a certain kind of shitty rich kid will occasionally decide that a) this is unforgivable, and b) it’s the fault of egalitarian social change over that period. Elliott Rodgers-type shooters clearly derive a lot of their motivation from a sense that everybody around them owes them some kind of fealty or tribute or something, and it’s hard for me not to think some part of that comes from the relative loss of upper class (or maybe upper-middle class) privilege. Of course, the vast majority of upper-middle class white boys don’t shoot anybody, so there’s a lot more to the etiology than that. But TL;DR I’d guess you’re right overall but wrong on some particulars.
Additionally I don’t think an Eliot Roger really gets there alone, he probably looked for friendship and camaraderie in quite a few places before sifting down into the incel world and had his views reinforced and made more extreme.
I can’t think of many more destructive ‘communities’ outside of the pro-anorexia support networks than incels. I’m not sure if any of you guys have ever talked to one mano o mano but it’s a tragically destructive circle. Obviously want companionship as most of us do, get bitter, get surrounded by even more people, become worse at interacting with the object of romantic desire because of your bitter views, and so the cycle goes.
No amount of logic really punctures through, although I hope most of them can grow out of it.
From my limited understanding they mostly seem to rail against the decline of a predictable social order, although I think that stems from an idealised view on how the past actually was and nothing too related to class entitlement or what have you.
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On March 24 2021 07:55 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2021 06:54 JimmiC wrote:On March 24 2021 06:23 Artisreal wrote:
What does it say about the US society that the overwhelming number of mass shootings are perpetrated by men?
What pressures drive them to killing others?
How and why do they fail and get so desperate or agitated, enraged, that they feel that this is their best option left, maybe even their only option left? What does it say about US society that almost all the mass shootings in developed countries happen in the US? I don't know what it'll take for US society to do something sensible about guns, or if it's even possible. I'm expecting the usual 'we must pass gun reform' theatrics that never go anywhere from the left and the usual 'they will never take our guns' posturing from the right. I very much doubt that gun control is the hill that Biden wants to die on. Considering classrooms with dead 6-7y old children didn't do it (Sandy Hook) my stance is very firmly in the 'Nothing will be enough to finally take action'.
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You'll need an event that is so unimaginably horrific that it would be obscene to even speculate on what it would be. Guns in America go down to its very roots from the birth of the entire experiment.Changing the culture of 100's of millions is something we've discovered is more than a classroom of dead kids can even begin to change.
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EPT
