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On January 08 2021 07:37 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2021 07:31 Sermokala wrote:On January 08 2021 06:56 NewSunshine wrote:
The police let them in and practically fist bumped them on the way. Law and Order is, paradoxically, an extremely subjective phrase to them. This isn't true. The truth is far less sensational and just another note on trumps presidency of being an incompetent racist. If you watch the video of the police "letting them in" you'll see that the terrorists were already behind and around them. The only value to barricades is to form a perimeter. What happened was a shocking level of incompetence or negligence that was the whole operation of there not being enough manpower to do the job. The commander panicked and instead of being able to use any of their preparations they rapidly retreated to make their stand inside the building. The guy who took a selfie with the protester is scared out his Gord beacuse they're literally at the point of a last stand and they don't know what's going on. The woman got shot because they could retreat no further. The result is the same really though even if they were complicit. It's the most shocking failure of leadership and everyone needs to be fired or jailed. Yeah, shocking how unprepared the police were when encountering white protesters. And more surprising they were not this unprepared when faced with black protesters earlier this year.
Its clear racism for underestimating them beacuse they're white and they lacked the national guard that stiffened every police department during the floyd riots.
Trump thought that he'd be walking at the head of the mob and that he could control them. He probably told them that they didnt need to worry about the mob he was riling up and just got the traffic cops that would just need to stand there.
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On January 08 2021 07:40 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2021 07:31 Sermokala wrote:On January 08 2021 06:56 NewSunshine wrote:
The police let them in and practically fist bumped them on the way. Law and Order is, paradoxically, an extremely subjective phrase to them. This isn't true. The truth is far less sensational and just another note on trumps presidency of being an incompetent racist. If you watch the video of the police "letting them in" you'll see that the terrorists were already behind and around them. The only value to barricades is to form a perimeter. What happened was a shocking level of incompetence or negligence that was the whole operation of there not being enough manpower to do the job. The commander panicked and instead of being able to use any of their preparations they rapidly retreated to make their stand inside the building. The guy who took a selfie with the protester is scared out his Gord beacuse they're literally at the point of a last stand and they don't know what's going on. The woman got shot because they could retreat no further. The result is the same really though even if they were complicit. It's the most shocking failure of leadership and everyone needs to be fired or jailed. Small adjustment I would make is to say the negligence was intentional
I don't think that's true. Intentional negligence would have been to make some martyrs and allow the Capitol to burn a little. Or at least shown the dems to have deployed their jackboot thugs to attack the peaceful Patriots while still allowing them in. That they're being portrayed as antifa plants shows that the crazies don't like what happened.
You have to remember that the basic trait of trump is incompetent dictator.
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The utter and very apparent inadequacy of security and law enforcement yesterday is extremely convenient. They had time to enter the capital, chill out, prop their feet up and take pictures to show off later. Is anyone seriously going to tell me that this wasn't by design when time after time the police cracked down, violently, swiftly, and with thousands of arrests, on one BLM protest after another this past year? Why suddenly when it's a bunch of Trump's boys does their incompetence come into play, and pass for an excuse?
Trump is absolutely incompetent. But he has a lot of competent people at his disposal willing to throw their hat in on a violent coup attempt. That's what happened. This was the White House. The last place in America that any group should have been able to just saunter into. The fact that they got in at all speaks volumes.
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On January 08 2021 07:49 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2021 07:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 08 2021 07:31 Sermokala wrote:On January 08 2021 06:56 NewSunshine wrote:
The police let them in and practically fist bumped them on the way. Law and Order is, paradoxically, an extremely subjective phrase to them. This isn't true. The truth is far less sensational and just another note on trumps presidency of being an incompetent racist. If you watch the video of the police "letting them in" you'll see that the terrorists were already behind and around them. The only value to barricades is to form a perimeter. What happened was a shocking level of incompetence or negligence that was the whole operation of there not being enough manpower to do the job. The commander panicked and instead of being able to use any of their preparations they rapidly retreated to make their stand inside the building. The guy who took a selfie with the protester is scared out his Gord beacuse they're literally at the point of a last stand and they don't know what's going on. The woman got shot because they could retreat no further. The result is the same really though even if they were complicit. It's the most shocking failure of leadership and everyone needs to be fired or jailed. Small adjustment I would make is to say the negligence was intentional I don't think that's true. Intentional negligence would have been to make some martyrs and allow the Capitol to burn a little. Or at least shown the dems to have deployed their jackboot thugs to attack the peaceful Patriots while still allowing them in. That they're being portrayed as antifa plants shows that the crazies don't like what happened. You have to remember that the basic trait of trump is incompetent dictator.
Trump being incompetent is no excuse for everyone in the Capitol police being incompetent.
Business Insider interviewed a French police official about the police response.
The TLDR is that the official believed such a weak response was likely a sign of active interference.
The article also mentions an interview with a former chief of Capitol police, who was confused by the fact that A) the rioters were even allowed all the way to capitol steps and B) very few arrests were made.
I mean shit, I watched more arrests happen in front of me at the Fees Must Fall protests around parliament here in SA.
Which, it should go without saying, does not have nearly the same police force presence as the Capitol building.
EDIT: fix suggested by post below.
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For clarity’s sake, it’s important to note that the Capitol Police and the DC Police are different entities. The latter could not intercede on Capitol Complex grounds until the former asked for help, which took far longer than it should have. The way this unfolded has relatedly bolstered the calls for DC statehood because DC proper currently lacks a lot of power over law and order scenarios involving federal grounds.
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On January 08 2021 08:12 farvacola wrote:
For clarity’s sake, it’s important to note that the Capitol Police and the DC Police are different entities. The latter could not intercede on Capitol Complex grounds until the former asked for help, which took far longer than it should have. The way this unfolded has relatedly bolstered the calls for DC statehood because DC proper currently lacks a lot of power over law and order scenarios involving federal grounds.
Democrats have got to push for DC statehood because of this. Perfect opportunity.
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On January 08 2021 08:12 farvacola wrote:
For clarity’s sake, it’s important to note that the Capitol Police and the DC Police are different entities. The latter could not intercede on Capitol Complex grounds until the former asked for help, which took far longer than it should have. The way this unfolded has relatedly bolstered the calls for DC statehood because DC proper currently lacks a lot of power over law and order scenarios involving federal grounds.
Thanks for the clarification.
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On January 08 2021 05:35 Nevuk wrote:
The most consequential parts of Pelosi's speech are that the Sergeant at Arms resigned (this isn't TECHNICALLY their entire job, but as we haven't been clapping people in chains for defying congressional subpeonas like we are supposed to use them for, it may as well be).
Also that she's demanding the chief of capital police resign (who should really be under congress or dc's power anyways).
As for who should be ejected? The ringleaders : Cruz, Hawley in the senate. Gosar and Gaetz in the house.
The rest, eh, whatever. Most of the House GOP has the same capability of thinking for themselves as the commonly accepted depiction of lemmings anyways.
I think most of the other senators have at least couched it in "well, can't we investigate fraud?" ... ignoring that I think literally every example of fraud so far is from their side... but asking to investigate fraud is at least something they can do (and democrats can easily say, OK we'll investigate all the examples of fraud, which are from republicans so far). I'd love for a commission to investigate DeJoy and the postal service, and that's a bipartisan thing that can easily happen (not just for votes : why sorting machines were destroyed, etc.).
The chief of capital police has a lot to answer for. There's been a lot of murmuring about his involvement and DC mayor's involvement. Poor use of light barriers, poor attendance of the police, and bad exercise of crowd dispersement measures. The narrative was someone opened the gate, but second view looks like they abandoned posts that looked impossible to maintain with that manpower and equipment
Take one pair of of partisan lenses off and look at the situation.
Reporters on ground:
"No, the barrier was there, protesters just pushed it aside and the cops abandoned their post."
Demand an explanation and then remove/resign for such poor defense of Senators in their chamber. Inexcusable.
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On January 08 2021 08:08 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2021 07:49 Sermokala wrote:On January 08 2021 07:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 08 2021 07:31 Sermokala wrote:On January 08 2021 06:56 NewSunshine wrote:
The police let them in and practically fist bumped them on the way. Law and Order is, paradoxically, an extremely subjective phrase to them. This isn't true. The truth is far less sensational and just another note on trumps presidency of being an incompetent racist. If you watch the video of the police "letting them in" you'll see that the terrorists were already behind and around them. The only value to barricades is to form a perimeter. What happened was a shocking level of incompetence or negligence that was the whole operation of there not being enough manpower to do the job. The commander panicked and instead of being able to use any of their preparations they rapidly retreated to make their stand inside the building. The guy who took a selfie with the protester is scared out his Gord beacuse they're literally at the point of a last stand and they don't know what's going on. The woman got shot because they could retreat no further. The result is the same really though even if they were complicit. It's the most shocking failure of leadership and everyone needs to be fired or jailed. Small adjustment I would make is to say the negligence was intentional I don't think that's true. Intentional negligence would have been to make some martyrs and allow the Capitol to burn a little. Or at least shown the dems to have deployed their jackboot thugs to attack the peaceful Patriots while still allowing them in. That they're being portrayed as antifa plants shows that the crazies don't like what happened. You have to remember that the basic trait of trump is incompetent dictator. Trump being incompetent is no excuse for everyone in the Capitol police being incompetent. Business Insider interviewed a French police official about the police response. The TLDR is that the official believed such a weak response was likely a sign of active interference. The article also mentions an interview with a former chief of Capitol police, who was confused by the fact that A) the rioters were even allowed all the way to capitol steps and B) very few arrests were made. I mean shit, I watched more arrests happen in front of me at the Fees Must Fall protests around parliament here in SA. Which, it should go without saying, does not have nearly the same police force presence as the Capitol building. EDIT: fix suggested by post below.
I think the describing of the events from one of NATO officials in the business insider article is really telling of exactly how much of a banana republic coup event this is.
"The defeated president gives a speech to a group of supporters where he tells them he was robbed of the election, denounces his own administration's members and party as traitors, and tells his supporters to storm the building where the voting is being held," the NATO intelligence official said.
"The supporters, many dressed in military attire and waving revolutionary-style flags, then storm the building where the federal law-enforcement agencies controlled by the current president do not establish a security cordon, and the protesters quickly overwhelm the last line of police.
"The president then makes a public statement to the supporters attacking the Capitol that he loves them but doesn't really tell them to stop," the official said. "Today I am briefing my government that we believe with a reasonable level of certainty that Donald Trump attempted a coup that failed when the system did not buckle."
If someone were to tell me this 10 years ago to describe an event in the US, I would laugh at how incredibly far-fetched it would be.
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Oregon rep opened doors for the terrorists:
Very curious if he’s in special amounts of trouble for doing this
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
From my understanding, outside of (rather credible) accusations of entrapment and pushing people into actions they may not have done independently, do the federal intelligence agencies not have a pretty damn sterling record in foiling most domestic terror plots, even those involving isolated lone wolves?
How was the extent of this missed? Given the rather disparate nature of the participants and presumably how most of them organised online you would have thought there would be ample opportunity to be aware of such an eventuality and prepare accordingly?
Edit - ok I know 9/11 happened, so yeah things do slip through the net. But when folks are organising online it’s hardly difficult to get wind of surely?
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Sounds like the sort of thing that would warrant another expulsion.
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Simon and schuster have cancelled Hawley's book, which was in a darkly ironic twist, to have been titled, "The Tyranny of Big Tech".
It is a ridiculous day when you face more consequences for trying to overthrow the government from the private sector than you do from the actual government.
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On January 08 2021 09:01 Gorsameth wrote:Sounds like the sort of thing that would warrant another expulsion.
I can’t read the article, there’s a lot of information and people moving quick to judge currently. Part of me absolutely wants some reckoning for years of utter irresponsibility and shitbaggery too.
I shall reserve judgement until one of my peers in this particular thread can enlighten me. As it stands both gross enabling of seditious elements and shitting oneself and letting the mob through out of fear are both distinct plausibilities.
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If this is true I think at the least he should face some charges. Maybe manslaughter for the death of the women? At the very least he need to be expelled from congress.
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United States44194 Posts
On January 08 2021 09:13 Shingi11 wrote:If this is true I think at the least he should face some charges. Maybe manslaughter for the death of the women? At the very least he need to be expelled from congress.
Oregon state capitol building, not the capitol building.
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EPT
