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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On January 07 2021 03:07 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 02:27 brian wrote:On January 07 2021 02:02 Gorsameth wrote:On January 07 2021 00:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 07 2021 00:25 KwarK wrote:On January 07 2021 00:12 Diavlo wrote:On January 06 2021 22:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 06 2021 22:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:
what's worth more tho, those 3 or 3 SC appointments? While the longevity of SCJ seats should not be understated, having a functioning legislative *and* executive branch is crucial to at least getting the ball rolling on a lot of meaningful reforms. I don't think the Supreme Court is going to blindly rule everything as unconstitutional in the same way that McConnell effectively blocked everything. That being said, the Dems still need to keep both houses over the next few years too. The longer, the better. Also, with a senate majority, can't the democrats put more judges on the SC? Too gutless to fight fire with fire. They’ll let Mitch steal from them but they won’t replace what he stole. Frankly, not taking that road might just be basic wisdom. What prevents republican from adding 4 more seats too next time they win? Where does it stop? Funny enough you probably want them to, the only way something like the SC nomination process chances is if both sides want it. You want a truly independent non-partisan court? Turn the court into a partisan fight and wait for it to explode and be remade into something better. the same reasoning many used in electing Trump. Break the system to show that the system is broken theory. Strange how many people suddenly don't like it when they see how people *that think a little different than them* use it.
If it was "think differently" in an Apple kinda way, that would've been fine. But you know that's not how the last 4 years have gone. Being an apologist for open fascists who lost is a choice.
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United States43219 Posts
On January 07 2021 03:07 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 02:27 brian wrote:On January 07 2021 02:02 Gorsameth wrote:On January 07 2021 00:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 07 2021 00:25 KwarK wrote:On January 07 2021 00:12 Diavlo wrote:On January 06 2021 22:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 06 2021 22:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:
what's worth more tho, those 3 or 3 SC appointments? While the longevity of SCJ seats should not be understated, having a functioning legislative *and* executive branch is crucial to at least getting the ball rolling on a lot of meaningful reforms. I don't think the Supreme Court is going to blindly rule everything as unconstitutional in the same way that McConnell effectively blocked everything. That being said, the Dems still need to keep both houses over the next few years too. The longer, the better. Also, with a senate majority, can't the democrats put more judges on the SC? Too gutless to fight fire with fire. They’ll let Mitch steal from them but they won’t replace what he stole. Frankly, not taking that road might just be basic wisdom. What prevents republican from adding 4 more seats too next time they win? Where does it stop? Funny enough you probably want them to, the only way something like the SC nomination process chances is if both sides want it. You want a truly independent non-partisan court? Turn the court into a partisan fight and wait for it to explode and be remade into something better. the same reasoning many used in electing Trump. Break the system to show that the system is broken theory. Strange how many people suddenly don't like it when they see how people *that think a little different than them* use it.
As long as one group is openly cheating it makes no sense for the others to continue to adhere to rules that leave them open for abuse. The system is already broken. The only way forward is for a bipartisan effort to rebuild the rules in such a way that they cannot simply be abused by bad actors. The last four years has shown that far too much of the US constitutional framework is built on "but surely nobody would be so openly corrupt so we don't need a rule against that". The current President has literally attempted a coup. The PA State Senate has already performed a coup.
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Hearing Mitch McConnell talk about how the elector challenges will "damage our republic forever" is quite something lol
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What a shit attempt at a coup.
You have to remember that DJT organized a protest right outside the congress to pressure the members. Oh man, what an absolute self-destroying moron.
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On January 07 2021 03:07 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 02:27 brian wrote:On January 07 2021 02:02 Gorsameth wrote:On January 07 2021 00:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 07 2021 00:25 KwarK wrote:On January 07 2021 00:12 Diavlo wrote:On January 06 2021 22:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 06 2021 22:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:
what's worth more tho, those 3 or 3 SC appointments? While the longevity of SCJ seats should not be understated, having a functioning legislative *and* executive branch is crucial to at least getting the ball rolling on a lot of meaningful reforms. I don't think the Supreme Court is going to blindly rule everything as unconstitutional in the same way that McConnell effectively blocked everything. That being said, the Dems still need to keep both houses over the next few years too. The longer, the better. Also, with a senate majority, can't the democrats put more judges on the SC? Too gutless to fight fire with fire. They’ll let Mitch steal from them but they won’t replace what he stole. Frankly, not taking that road might just be basic wisdom. What prevents republican from adding 4 more seats too next time they win? Where does it stop? Funny enough you probably want them to, the only way something like the SC nomination process chances is if both sides want it. You want a truly independent non-partisan court? Turn the court into a partisan fight and wait for it to explode and be remade into something better. the same reasoning many used in electing Trump. Break the system to show that the system is broken theory. Strange how many people suddenly don't like it when they see how people *that think a little different than them* use it. If done in a way that doesn't harm people? I'm generally fine with it.
But for Republicans its generally used as a means to oppress others. And that I do mind.
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Lauren Boebert thinks by shouting she can make her arguments more impactful. I mean shes the new classic for republicans apparently.
Pelosi bringing her big guns LMAO
Hey Danglars, this is your reminder that the wind you sow is ready for reaping. You enabled this man and his party. Are you enjoying it ?
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Wouldn't it be some 4d chess if the whole point of this debacle was for some Republicans to make a show of opposing the coup attempt. In the coming months they can test the temperature of their constituents and whichever view is more popular, supporting or opposing the coup, they can highlight the speeches of those candidates.
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"Fight for Trump!"
"We want Trump!"
While trying to break the doors. Oh man, surely noone could've foreseen this egomaniac reacting badly to losing. Just wow.
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Buildings at the Capitol are being evacuated and it looks like things are escalating. Hard to tell exactly what is going on.
The U.S. Capitol Police on Wednesday locked down the Capitol building and evacuated multiple congressional buildings amid increasingly violent protests outside.
Buildings being evacuated included the Library of Congress's Madison Building across from the Capitol as well as the Cannon House office building. In an alert sent to Hill staffers, police ordered occupants of the Madison building to “move in a safe manner to the exists” and “close doors behind you but do not lock.”
Capitol police also told those in the Cannon House building to "take visitors, escape hoods, and Go Kits" and report to a tunnel connected to a nearby building.
Capitol placed on lockdown, buildings evacuated amid protests
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On January 07 2021 04:09 Starlightsun wrote:
Wouldn't it be some 4d chess if the whole point of this debacle was for some Republicans to make a show of opposing the coup attempt. In the coming months they can test the temperature of their constituents and whichever view is more popular, supporting or opposing the coup, they can highlight the speeches of those candidates.
But you can't do both things at once, and the fracturing of the party is enevitable. The DEMs are licking their mouths, as they have their own problems, but not nearly as dramatic as what the GOP is facing.
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What is stopping Trump and his cult from doing this every day now?
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The protesters have broken into the capitol building?
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They're actually inside. Disgusting. I hope the national guard will come fast.
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aren't these the law and order people?
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these people are fucking morons and anyone who's still a trump supporter after now is a fascist without a doubt.
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On January 07 2021 03:48 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 03:07 Danglars wrote:On January 07 2021 02:27 brian wrote:On January 07 2021 02:02 Gorsameth wrote:On January 07 2021 00:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 07 2021 00:25 KwarK wrote:On January 07 2021 00:12 Diavlo wrote:On January 06 2021 22:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 06 2021 22:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:
what's worth more tho, those 3 or 3 SC appointments? While the longevity of SCJ seats should not be understated, having a functioning legislative *and* executive branch is crucial to at least getting the ball rolling on a lot of meaningful reforms. I don't think the Supreme Court is going to blindly rule everything as unconstitutional in the same way that McConnell effectively blocked everything. That being said, the Dems still need to keep both houses over the next few years too. The longer, the better. Also, with a senate majority, can't the democrats put more judges on the SC? Too gutless to fight fire with fire. They’ll let Mitch steal from them but they won’t replace what he stole. Frankly, not taking that road might just be basic wisdom. What prevents republican from adding 4 more seats too next time they win? Where does it stop? Funny enough you probably want them to, the only way something like the SC nomination process chances is if both sides want it. You want a truly independent non-partisan court? Turn the court into a partisan fight and wait for it to explode and be remade into something better. the same reasoning many used in electing Trump. Break the system to show that the system is broken theory. Strange how many people suddenly don't like it when they see how people *that think a little different than them* use it. If done in a way that doesn't harm people? I'm generally fine with it. But for Republicans its generally used as a means to oppress others. And that I do mind.
That's the trouble with politics. We're always going to disagree on what harms people, and what's generally true about oppression. One person's support of Kenosha riots thinks it brought police reform/defunding closer, and another thinks the wake of crime and business closure always made it a source and not a cure of harm.
For the Supreme Court example, look at major decisions in Trump's term. Did they decide rightly about discrimination directed against the Colorado baker? Was their greater harm to his rights, or was the harm to the gay couple? How about Catholic nuns in Pennsylvania?
I've spent almost a decade arguing politics on this forum, and found a very high percentage of people immediately dismissing my appraisal of harms, for example generally united against the baker and the nuns. The tradeoff is something like one or two with me, and a dozen against. Whereas in the country at large, the sides are way more equitable. The obvious conclusion is not to trust you one bit in appraisal of harm, we genuinely both think at opposites almost all the time, and distrust your conclusions about "Republicans use X generally to oppress others." That thinking should carry over to the matter at hand: you're just a twin of people that think Trump was worth the reset in activist judge majority on the court, and the debate on immigration and trade. You can see people still certainly believe those four years of Trump in the executive was worth the gains over the costs. Welcome to positing the existence of people that think different than you, and on some of the spectrum of breaking the system to fix the system.
See also my hypothesis that the average TLer would never even detect oppression in a system where large states dismiss and ignore smaller states when it comes to national politics. It's just the wrong minority, and not an obvious racial category of minority. The modern left is too wedded to majoritarianism, "our solutions will work out the best for everyone everywhere" political idealism, and the ascendency of cosmopolitan culture (the needs and social attitudes of the more vibrant, diverse cultures should and will triumph over ones we describe as backward and stagnant+ Show Spoiler +itself a contradiction of diversity of thought, but I'm not asserting this political stance is internally self-consistent
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Can we keep track of how these people are treated?
Will they be treated as harshly as the police brutality riots, or will they be treated to Burger King once all is said and done?
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Danglars, you probably don't want to lecture people about inaccurately appraising the harms of Trump or "worse-than-Trump" while armed Trump supporters have broken into the Capital Building more or less on his behest.
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Would be nice to see these fascists charged with sedition and rioting but we all know that's not going to happen
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On January 07 2021 04:32 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2021 03:48 Gorsameth wrote:On January 07 2021 03:07 Danglars wrote:On January 07 2021 02:27 brian wrote:On January 07 2021 02:02 Gorsameth wrote:On January 07 2021 00:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 07 2021 00:25 KwarK wrote:On January 07 2021 00:12 Diavlo wrote:On January 06 2021 22:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 06 2021 22:28 Liquid`Drone wrote:
what's worth more tho, those 3 or 3 SC appointments? While the longevity of SCJ seats should not be understated, having a functioning legislative *and* executive branch is crucial to at least getting the ball rolling on a lot of meaningful reforms. I don't think the Supreme Court is going to blindly rule everything as unconstitutional in the same way that McConnell effectively blocked everything. That being said, the Dems still need to keep both houses over the next few years too. The longer, the better. Also, with a senate majority, can't the democrats put more judges on the SC? Too gutless to fight fire with fire. They’ll let Mitch steal from them but they won’t replace what he stole. Frankly, not taking that road might just be basic wisdom. What prevents republican from adding 4 more seats too next time they win? Where does it stop? Funny enough you probably want them to, the only way something like the SC nomination process chances is if both sides want it. You want a truly independent non-partisan court? Turn the court into a partisan fight and wait for it to explode and be remade into something better. the same reasoning many used in electing Trump. Break the system to show that the system is broken theory. Strange how many people suddenly don't like it when they see how people *that think a little different than them* use it. If done in a way that doesn't harm people? I'm generally fine with it. But for Republicans its generally used as a means to oppress others. And that I do mind. That's the trouble with politics. We're always going to disagree on what harms people, and what's generally true about oppression. One person's support of Kenosha riots thinks it brought police reform/defunding closer, and another thinks the wake of crime and business closure always made it a source and not a cure of harm. For the Supreme Court example, look at major decisions in Trump's term. Did they decide rightly about discrimination directed against the Colorado baker? Was their greater harm to his rights, or was the harm to the gay couple? How about Catholic nuns in Pennsylvania? I've spent almost a decade arguing politics on this forum, and found a very high percentage of people immediately dismissing my appraisal of harms, for example generally united against the baker and the nuns. The tradeoff is something like one or two with me, and a dozen against. Whereas in the country at large, the sides are way more equitable. The obvious conclusion is not to trust you one bit in appraisal of harm, we genuinely both think at opposites almost all the time, and distrust your conclusions about "Republicans use X generally to oppress others." That thinking should carry over to the matter at hand: you're just a twin of people that think Trump was worth the reset in activist judge majority on the court, and the debate on immigration and trade. You can see people still certainly believe those four years of Trump in the executive was worth the gains over the costs. Welcome to positing the existence of people that think different than you, and on some of the spectrum of breaking the system to fix the system. See also my hypothesis that the average TLer would never even detect oppression in a system where large states dismiss and ignore smaller states when it comes to national politics. It's just the wrong minority, and not an obvious racial category of minority. The modern left is too wedded to majoritarianism, "our solutions will work out the best for everyone everywhere" political idealism, and the ascendency of cosmopolitan culture (the needs and social attitudes of the more vibrant, diverse cultures should and will triumph over ones we describe as backward and stagnant + Show Spoiler +itself a contradiction of diversity of thought, but I'm not asserting this political stance is internally self-consistent . I'm not the best at describing these pieces that make up a whole, but the summary goes something like "I'm in favor of breaking a broken system to fix it, but only in the ways that I know constitute the least harm, and groups of people that disagree with me in what's broken and how to fix it should never be allowed to do the same." I thought throwing Trump in the face of this kind of political thought would be enough to teach the lesson, but apparently we're heading to worse-than-Trump.
I'm quite sure the average Danglars is unable to distinguish a wannabe fascist from a normal politician.
Can you, for once, stop deflecting ?
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EPT
