EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 1802
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
KwarK
United States42249 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On September 17 2019 01:20 KwarK wrote: If you don’t think he sounds like a Nazi you must be unclear on what Nazis sound like. The “look at the technological and social achievements of Europe compared to the spear chuckers, we must defend our genetic stock to preserve this” is Nazi 101. It’s the main argument used to defend the importance of the preservation of the white race which is what his post was arguing. Maybe you talk to a lot more nazis than me. It seems like in today's society it's not only socially acceptable but even encouraged for minority groups to talk about cultural and even genetic preservation but somehow when it's white people saying that stuff then they are nazis. But if it's, say, brown people, then it is perfectly fine. Also it's completely ridiculous and shameful to ban someone for their opinions when you are questioning their opinions and encouraging them to share them. Maybe if you had told him to stop, which also would have been weird because I don't even see what he is doing wrong. If you don't agree with people who have those ideologies you definitely aren't going to create positive change by banning them from discussion forums when they try to discuss them. | ||
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farvacola
United States18820 Posts
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Vivax
21948 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11402 Posts
The average total fertility rate in the European Union (EU-28) is calculated at 1.58 children per woman in 2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate#Europe Fertility Rate in Somalia: 6.27 https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&idim=country:SOM:SDN:ERI&hl=en&dl=en FST does appear to be a value between 0 and 1 according to wikipedia, so all of those values are incorrect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixation_index The whole comparison might be pointless, because different things are measured for the FST in wolves vs in humans: https://www.quora.com/Is-the-FST-Fixation-Index-between-Europeans-and-Sub-Saharan-Africans-really-the-same-as-the-FST-between-wolves-and-coyotes Sadly, i don't really have the scientific background to dive deeper into this, but the only actual source for the claim i can find is a shitty image meme, so there is that. As another point, the whole thing stinks of race ideology. "Look at how different those people i don't like are from the people i do like, it is the same difference as between a coyote and a wolf, two different species! So they must be really different, we really should fine some word to describe the difference between humans who are that different" | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On September 17 2019 01:27 farvacola wrote: White people saying that they should preserve white culture is indeed entirely different than when minorities do something ostensibly similar. For one thing, whiteness is an empty designation that is nothing to be proud of whatsoever. but blackness is different? | ||
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farvacola
United States18820 Posts
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KwarK
United States42249 Posts
Blackness is a placeholder for the identity that was robbed of African Americans. I don’t identify as European because I’m British, European means nothing to me. British pride would be fine, I’m proud of the NHS, parliamentary democracy, and so forth. White pride would be weird because it’d be mostly proud of not being black and that’s super racist. If I didn’t know where my ancestors came from and I lived in a society that treated white people like shit then white pride would be all I’d have. But I don’t. Black pride in America is a counterculture, not a culture. It’s not pride of historical religion, traditions, music or whatever because those were robbed from them. It’s a response to being called niggers for hundreds of years. It’s not about being proud of not being white, it’s about celebrating the value of African Americans in a society that pisses on them. It’s the same reason that gay pride is fine but straight pride is generally homophobic. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On September 17 2019 01:33 farvacola wrote: Yes, for a number of reasons, with a primary one being the common referential thread of origin joining the “black” designation as it’s connotatively used. I don't agree. Could you put forth a more comprehensive argument as to why I am wrong? Your current claim seems to be that it's okay because black people are largely descendants of slaves in this country? Is my interpretation correct? If I understood you correctly, then I also don't really understand the relevance. Could you explain the relevance? | ||
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farvacola
United States18820 Posts
On September 17 2019 01:35 KwarK wrote: Blackness is a placeholder for the identity that was robbed of African Americans. I don’t identify as European because I’m British, European means nothing to me. British pride would’ve fine, I’m proud of the NHS, parliamentary democracy, and so forth. White pride would be weird because it’d be mostly proud of not being black and that’s super racist. Black pride in America is a counterculture, not a culture. It’s not pride of historical religion, traditions, music or whatever because those were robbed from them. It’s a response to being called niggers for hundreds of years. It’s not about being proud of not being white, it’s about celebrating the value of African Americans in a society that pisses on them. It’s the same reason that gay pride is fine but straight pride is generally homophobic. Yep, “blackness” is a designative inevitability born from the category of exclusion into which Africans were placed as they were enslaved and subjugated by European settler colonialism. Travis, see KwarK’s explanation, he hits it pretty squarely. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On September 17 2019 01:25 travis wrote: When minority groups talk about preserving their culture, it is rarely genetic preservation.Maybe you talk to a lot more nazis than me. It seems like in today's society it's not only socially acceptable but even encouraged for minority groups to talk about cultural and even genetic preservation but somehow when it's white people saying that stuff then they are nazis. But if it's, say, brown people, then it is perfectly fine. Also it's completely ridiculous and shameful to ban someone for their opinions when you are questioning their opinions and encouraging them to share them. Maybe if you had told him to stop, which also would have been weird because I don't even see what he is doing wrong. If you don't agree with people who have those ideologies you definitely aren't going to create positive change by banning them from discussion forums when they try to discuss them. Conversely, when people with the same arguments as him talk about preserving culture, it is "white" or "european" culture, which seems to define itself as a shared genetic material which varies but the main indicator is to be different from an other genetic material which are inferior. Which was exactly what he was writing about. He written so, you read it so, what is there even to discuss, except by giving credence to racist ideology by treating it as not a hateful violent ideology? | ||
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Vivax
21948 Posts
So called blacks express their genome in a way that increases bone density, melanine density, muscle density and so on and so forth. CAN it mean that they tend to perform worse in IQ tests? Yes. If yes, does it mean that will always be the case? Absolutely not, it's just the kit their genome chose to fit them out with in order to not be destroyed by malaria, with sickle cell mutations sprinkled into the population. Mixing "races" will always level the imbalances and is highly desiderable if you want kids who are good at sports AND intellect. If you are racist, study genetics. And ignore anything that involves wolves and coyotes for the love of god. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On September 17 2019 01:35 KwarK wrote: Blackness is a placeholder for the identity that was robbed of African Americans. I don’t identify as European because I’m British, European means nothing to me. British pride would’ve fine, I’m proud of the NHS, parliamentary democracy, and so forth. White pride would be weird because it’d be mostly proud of not being black and that’s super racist. What is the nature of this identity that you are referring to? Black pride in America is a counterculture, not a culture. It’s not pride of historical religion, traditions, music or whatever because those were robbed from them. It’s a response to being called ***** for hundreds of years. No it is not a counterculture, it is mainstream. Maybe it was counterculture in the past. Now it is mainstream. So the claim here is that black people are justified in being proud that they were born black because they've been wronged and oppressed, but white people are not justified in being proud that they are white because they have not been wronged or oppressed. I don't agree. I think that both you and farva are explaining *why* it makes sense, and I think you are right. But I don't think that *why* makes it any less ignorant. It’s the same reason that gay pride is fine but straight pride is generally homophobic. This seems like a strong argument and I think I will have to think about the topic some more. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21505 Posts
On September 17 2019 01:25 travis wrote: As I said previously, I have no problem with cultural preservation but you don't need a political party to do that, you just need to practice and teach said culture to your children. But there is no 'European' culture, there is no 'White' culture.Maybe you talk to a lot more nazis than me. It seems like in today's society it's not only socially acceptable but even encouraged for minority groups to talk about cultural and even genetic preservation but somehow when it's white people saying that stuff then they are nazis. But if it's, say, brown people, then it is perfectly fine. Also it's completely ridiculous and shameful to ban someone for their opinions when you are questioning their opinions and encouraging them to share them. Maybe if you had told him to stop, which also would have been weird because I don't even see what he is doing wrong. If you don't agree with people who have those ideologies you definitely aren't going to create positive change by banning them from discussion forums when they try to discuss them. There is Dutch culture, or French/German/Spanish/Polish/ect culture (and many subsets within that) but what is European culture? Its Nazi talk for white people being white. And note how it quickly moved away from preserving culture into keeping non-Europeans out and ensuring racial purity. Because the culture blurp is just there to provide a cover for the real idiology, ensuring white supremacy. | ||
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KwarK
United States42249 Posts
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KwarK
United States42249 Posts
On September 17 2019 01:47 travis wrote: What is the nature of this identity that you are referring to? No it is not a counterculture, it is mainstream. Maybe it was counterculture in the past. Now it is mainstream. So the claim here is that black people are justified in being proud that they were born black because they've been wronged and oppressed, but white people are not justified in being proud that they are white because they have not been wronged or oppressed. I don't agree. I think that both you and farva are explaining *why* it makes sense, and I think you are right. But I don't think that *why* makes it any less ignorant. This seems like a strong argument and I think I will have to think about the topic some more. “It’s okay to be black” exists in a broader context of “its not okay to be black”. That’s what I mean by counterculture. When you were born more Americans opposed interracial marriage than supported it. This isn’t history, this is current affairs. If it was mainstream then we wouldn’t have shit like black superhero movies. Consider when the first major white superhero movie came out and how happy white peoples were to receive that kind of representation on the big screen. It wasn’t a big deal, as I recall, because the big screen belonged to white people already. Black culture has to break into the mainstream, that’s why it’s a counterculture. If it wasn’t a counterculture it wouldn’t need to have black in the name. We don’t call white culture white culture, we just call it culture. The name for the white people movie awards is the Oscars, for example, not the White Oscars. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On September 17 2019 01:47 travis wrote:+ Show Spoiler + yes lets reverse it shall we. You use your effort for when a black people are the wolves and the whites are the coyotes and so all white migration into areas of blacks should be prevented for the preservation the uniqueness of your peoples.On September 17 2019 01:35 KwarK wrote: Blackness is a placeholder for the identity that was robbed of African Americans. I don’t identify as European because I’m British, European means nothing to me. British pride would’ve fine, I’m proud of the NHS, parliamentary democracy, and so forth. White pride would be weird because it’d be mostly proud of not being black and that’s super racist. What is the nature of this identity that you are referring to? Black pride in America is a counterculture, not a culture. It’s not pride of historical religion, traditions, music or whatever because those were robbed from them. It’s a response to being called ***** for hundreds of years. No it is not a counterculture, it is mainstream. Maybe it was counterculture in the past. Now it is mainstream. So the claim here is that black people are justified in being proud that they were born black because they've been wronged and oppressed, but white people are not justified in being proud that they are white because they have not been wronged or oppressed. I don't agree. I think that both you and farva are explaining *why* it makes sense, and I think you are right. But I don't think that *why* makes it any less ignorant. It’s the same reason that gay pride is fine but straight pride is generally homophobic. This seems like a strong argument and I think I will have to think about the topic some more. I don't know why you are pretending he was talking about preserving "white culture" when he openly talks about genetics. But I suppose that is your talking favourite point. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21505 Posts
On September 17 2019 01:50 KwarK wrote: Indeed, Black pride is a result of (at the time) mainstream thought that blacks were inferior, there is no need for 'white pride' because no one is going around saying whites are inferior.“It’s okay to be black” exists in a broader context of “its not okay to be black”. That’s what I mean by counterculture. When you were born more Americans opposed interracial marriage than supported it. This isn’t history, this is current affairs. If it was mainstream then we wouldn’t have shit like black superhero movies. Consider when the first major white superhero movie came out and how happy white peoples were to receive that kind of representation on the big screen. It wasn’t a big deal, as I recall, because the big screen belonged to white people already. Black culture has to break into the mainstream, that’s why it’s a counterculture. If it wasn’t a counterculture it wouldn’t need to have black in the name. We don’t call white culture white culture, we just call it culture. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9132 Posts
On September 17 2019 01:47 Gorsameth wrote: As I said previously, I have no problem with cultural preservation but you don't need a political party to do that, you just need to practice and teach said culture to your children. But there is no 'European' culture, there is no 'White' culture. There is Dutch culture, or French/German/Spanish/Polish/ect culture (and many subsets within that) but what is European culture? Its Nazi talk for white people being white. And note how it quickly moved away from preserving culture into keeping non-Europeans out and ensuring racial purity. Because the culture blurp is just there to provide a cover for the real idiology, ensuring white supremacy. If you can tell what the German culture is, then you should be able to tell what the European culture is because the German culture is a subset of the European culture, just like the Bavarian culture is a subset of the German culture. Am I saying nazi things now? | ||
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farvacola
United States18820 Posts
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