[Shooting] Gay Night Club in Orlando - Page 17

On June 17 2016 04:54 Asarha wrote:
I'd like to remind people that victims aren't falling in this whole idea of "Islam is the only threat"
https://www.colorlines.com/articles/watch-queer-and-trans-latinx-activists-explain-how-america-contributed-orlando-massacre

Fact is, in Europe, we've got an enormous number of people who've join a large campaign against LGBTQIA+'s right (la manif pour tous, started in France, then expanding in nearby countries). In Russia, "LGBTQIA+ "propaganda"" has been forbidden, And we've got around... what ? 100 anti-LGBTQIA+'s law in USA ?
Friendly reminder that the shooter pledge allegiance to several organisation who're at war witch each other, and that, according to his family, was not at all religious.
So... yeah, maybe it's a little bit more complicated. And the fact that this was a racist act of terror seems to be forgotten here too. Those weren't only LGBTQIA+'s people. They were latino's, and it was a latino's party.

Sure, we can use the whole idea of "there are worse country than ours, so we're good" but this doesn't change the fact that we are also responsible for those attack. All the time we act like this is a problem with Islam, we're completely forgetting that for each non-muslim killed by Daesh/al Qaeda/boko Haram, there's 10 muslim. We're forgetting the fact that those organisation only exist because our country are pillaging the others for century, making war all over the world in order to protect our interest, and that only those terrorist organisation have the ability to fight us. Trying to understand Islamism without imperialism of European&USA is missing the point. Religion has never been a reason for the war. It was always an excuse. (see the Crusade for example, for those who don't know, they weren't for the sake of Jerusalem. Their goal was to pacify Europe who had a shitton of war back in those days. In order to do that, they pointed a new ennemy, used religion in order to make people be forced to go to war.)

We're forgetting the fact that those organisation only exist because our country are pillaging the others for century, making war all over the world in order to protect our interest

On June 17 2016 05:37 DickMcFanny wrote:


I didn't attack it, I genuinely thought the guy was making a (harmless) joke.

On June 18 2016 15:07 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:

Who is "our"? Because these wars only benefit the military industrial complex who make the weapons and war machinery, the big banks who speculate and the big oil companies that swoop in and get the oil.Ordinary Americans do not benefit, in fact they suffer because they have to pay interest on the debt to pay for these crazy wars.

On June 18 2016 15:36 KwarK wrote:
I've always been confused by the allies part. I get that they want to feel included but it's not really their thing.

On June 18 2016 14:19 Sonnington wrote:


Yeah, lets blame the NRA, Christian right, Republicans, and western civilization for the act of a Muslim, registered Democrat, who TOLD US he was doing it in the name of ISIS. Muslims are perfect and impervious to criticism. it's the west who are the bad guys. Next you're going to tell me the reason why ISIS throws homosexuals off of buildings in Syria is our fault too.

This is exactly what the left does. Everything is about how bad America is or how bad the western world is and how pure and pristine everyone else is.

Here's the facts, he's the son of two Afghani immigrants, his father is pro Taliban and heavily anti-gay, Afghanistan's maximum punishment for homosexuality is the death penalty, over 90% of Muslims in most Muslim countries believe homosexuality is immoral. Most of the countries that have death penalties for homosexuality are Muslim and nearly all Muslim countries have laws to outlaw homosexuality. And you're going to sit there and tell me it's OUR FAULT? That it's OUR CULTURE that radicalized Omar Mateen to kill gays? No, it's not even remotely western civilizations fault. The USA is one of, if not, the absolute most tolerant society on Earth. We did not radicalize him. I hate how the left indicts people that have nothing to do this.

On June 19 2016 01:12 MockHamill wrote:
If God exist and his nature is near how is is depicted in the religious books he is a psychopath and not worth following.

Fortunately most religious people are better people than what their own religion dictates them to be, they ignore the most vile parts of their religious books and behave decent.

It is the nutcases that follow the rules to the letter that are the real problem.

On June 19 2016 02:00 KwarK wrote:
This guy was a shitty fucking Muslim with no idea what the hell was going on. Hell, he pledged allegiance to both Sunni and Shia groups at war with each other and probably couldn't have explained why that was a bad idea. It's the equivalent of a Christian having no idea what the differences between Catholic and Protestant are and which one he is.

He was raised in a homophobic household and he was super fucking gay. Gayer than a rainbow cloud that rains glitter. And we should absolutely have a conversation about the relationship between homophobia and Islam culturally because it's probably not a coincidence that his homophobic father was from Afghanistan. But he didn't murder suicide because he was a "good" Muslim, he murder suicided because he was a self hating homosexual American. It wasn't the Muslim stereotype of terrorist attacks that he was following, it was the American example of offing yourself and taking down a load of innocents with you. But if that makes you uncomfortable then feel free to pin it on the religion that he didn't understand and didn't follow.

On June 19 2016 07:41 Sonnington wrote:


OH REALLY. Islam had nothing to do with it huh? He was following an American model? He grew up in a homophobic, pro-Taliban, Muslim household, but he hated gays because of America, huh?

Because apparently suicide bombings never happen in Islamic countries I guess. Because when he called 911, the FBI, and the local news station to pledge allegiance to Islamic terrorist groups fulfilling his bayat to Islam and jihad against the infidels.

Yes, to the left it's America's fault. America, one of the most tolerant and accepting places in the world to homosexuals. And it has nothing to do with a pro-Taliban Afghani father who came from a country and supported an organization that executes gays. No, no, it has nothing to do with Islam. How can people support the left when they think these types of things? Want to talk about ridiculous extents of self loathing, talk about the American left. Everything wrong in the world is due to America to these guys.

On June 19 2016 07:46 KwarK wrote:

You'll look smarter if you take the time to read the post you're responding to before you respond.

On June 19 2016 09:31 Sonnington wrote:


This is a completely dismissive response with a simple statement of superiority over me with absolutely no substance.

Let me be a little more brief, what you're doing in your original post is indicting American values as largely responsible for the shooting while at the same time downplaying/dismissing the Islamic element. This is absolutely ridiculous as I've gone into great detail to explain. You should be ashamed of yourself for your comment.

And we should absolutely have a conversation about the relationship between homophobia and Islam culturally because it's probably not a coincidence that his homophobic father was from Afghanistan.

he hated gays because of America, Islam had nothing to do with it

On June 19 2016 10:31 Uldridge wrote:
I think the murder suicide aspect isn't necessarily something American to do, rather it might be somehting a certain subset of mental cases just act upon as they see this as their only way out. They don't know how to deal with their own self loathing and try to destroy as much of the physical embodiment of their beliefs/selves as possible. The suicidal part may or may not be deliberate though, I'm not sure how clearly you can think once you decide to go rampaging, or even if the decision to go rampaging is a completely "conscious" act. I think it might just be a completete mental breakdown where you're just not able to make sense of anything but the one driving factor that's completely consumed you: (self)hate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525
This is an example why I think it's not something American to do, per se (even though there wasn't any shooting involved, so I would agree that the shooting aspect in these sort of actions are American), but is something that is innate to a very small subset of mentally unstable/broken people.

On June 19 2016 10:07 KwarK wrote:

He was homophobic because he was raised in a Muslim household. He did a murder suicide not because he was a Muslim, he was a shitty fucking Muslim (drinking, clubbing, being gay, having no idea who Al Qaeda or ISIS were (they're fighting each other yet he supports both)) but because when Americans feel angry and alienated and hate the world and themselves what they do is murder suicide. You should be proud, he's following a long tradition of Americans who do this. But of course that doesn't agree with your narrative so for you he was an ideologically motivated Muslim who had a clear grasp of why he was doing this and how the United States would be defeated if only he could kill enough of their gays.

I'm not blaming Christianity, the NRA or anything else you seem to think I am. Nor do I hate America. All I'm saying is that this guy was an objectively shitty Muslim, he didn't follow the things you have to do to be a Muslim and he had no fucking clue about the groups he swore allegiance to (again, two of them are currently fighting each other in Syria). That is objectively true. It is also true that Americans, almost alone of the people of the world, respond to feelings of self hate and alienation by shooting up their surroundings and then themselves. Cinemas, churches, schools, universities, there is a long, long history of it that predates Islamic terrorism and has continued since the rise of Islamic terrorism.

So again, my argument is that his homophobic Muslim father raised him to hate gays and therefore himself and his American culture raised him to respond to this situation by shooting shit up. Because fundie Muslims hate gays and self hating Americans shoot shit up. But you'd know all this if you'd taken the time to read my first post and that's why you merited nothing more than a dismissive response because I am entirely certain of my own superiority over you. Hell, I wrote

Pinning his homophobia firmly on Islam and you read

which was the literal opposite of what I wrote

Which would be why I was so dismissive of your intelligence and told you that you'd appear smarter if you'd read the post before getting really angry and making yourself look like an idiot. I was dismissive of you because you deserved to be dismissed. If people treat you like you're an idiot, maybe reflect on that and ask where they're getting that idea from.

On June 19 2016 14:32 Sonnington wrote:


My apologies. I'm a little up tight seeing posts on facebook, here, and all over blatantly blaming America for radicalizing Mateen to hate homosexuals and downplaying Islam. I must've only skimmed your post.

America isn't the only country have mass shootings and it hasn't been "common" until relatively recently. Off the top of my head, the first mainstream publicized instance of a mass shooting I can remember is when the infamous mail man went 'postal' and shot up his post office in the early 90's. The first instance of radical Islamic terrorism against the west, that I can think of, was the Iran hostage crisis in the last 70's under Carter. While I'm sure you can likely find instances of terrorism perpetrated against Israel earlier and mass shootings taking place earlier. The fact of the matter is, people going psycho isn't a uniquely American phenomenon. And neither is suicide bombings in the Islamic world. If Mateen was born anywhere else on the planet he would've still been hateful, violent, and finding a way to kill infidels. Perhaps in the Middle Eastern Muslim world you can find legal ways to kill infidels.