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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:17 Shield wrote: Isn't Le Pen far right? If so, how can left wing people like her? They are both against the traditional political class and a lot of their partisan are against Europe and the lost of sovereignty | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:17 Poopi wrote: The extremes are basically the same, both are sufficiently angry if they lose to vote for the other side agree, the line is quite thin when it comes to both extrem | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:17 Shield wrote: Isn't Le Pen far right? If so, how can left wing people like her? No one in the left likes Le Pen, but some people are so fed up with statu quo that they may be tempted with the politique du pire [voting for the worst in order to try to benefit from the resulting situation]. It's a huge mistake, but it will be marginal anyway Empty talk | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:17 Shield wrote: Isn't Le Pen far right? If so, how can left wing people like her? Do you know of the horseshoe concept in politics ? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:19 Makro wrote: agree, the line is quite thin when it comes to both extrem Dudes, you're all funny with your “the extremes are the same” talk... You realize that when far-right trash goes down in the streets, the other guys who throw stones at them belong to the far-left? And you think they'll kiss each other or make up in the polling station? There are pissed people who can vote for either one if their only goal is to flip the table, but convinced people, militants, they don't go to the other side... Even if you can find the rare case of a sick brain going from the far-left to the far-right (never the other way around, funny). | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:26 TheDwf wrote: Dude, you're all funny with your “the extremes are the same” talk... You realize that when far-right trash goes down in the streets, the other guys who throw stones at them belong to the far-left? And you think they'll kiss each other or make up in the polling station? There are pissed people who can vote for either one if their only goal is to flip the table, but convinced people, militants, they don't go to the other side... Even if you can find the rare case of a sick brain going from the far-left to the far-right (never the other way around, funny). Well of course they people in the street are gonna vote for the other camp, but it's not 40% of the population who go in the street for the extreme right or the extreme left, I think a lot of the voter are far less stable. | ||
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:19 TheDwf wrote: No one in the left likes Le Pen, but some people are so fed up with statu quo that they may be tempted with the politique du pire [voting for the worst in order to try to benefit from the resulting situation]. It's a huge mistake, but it will be marginal anyway Empty talk If you quote the whole thing you could realize that's it's actually true, see stilt and I can tell you he is not the only one doing that | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5568 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:26 TheDwf wrote: Dudes, you're all funny with your “the extremes are the same” talk... You realize that when far-right trash goes down in the streets, the other guys who throw stones at them belong to the far-left? And you think they'll kiss each other or make up in the polling station? There are pissed people who can vote for either one if their only goal is to flip the table, but convinced people, militants, they don't go to the other side... Even if you can find the rare case of a sick brain going from the far-left to the far-right (never the other way around, funny). Here's an example of a right-wing nutjob turning into a left-wing nutjob.  https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_Michalik + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://s.redefine.pl/dcs/o2/redefine/cp/qj/qjt32w8ewj9fo9beakdeo2bwyzpm2eik.jpg) | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:33 Poopi wrote: If you quote the whole thing you could realize that's it's actually true, see stilt and I can tell you he is not the only one doing that You edited the post after I answered. I maintain that this behavior is marginal. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:26 TheDwf wrote: Dude, you're all funny with your “the extremes are the same” talk... You realize that when far-right trash goes down in the streets, the other guys who throw stones at them belong to the far-left? And you think they'll kiss each other or make up in the polling station? There are pissed people who can vote for either one if their only goal is to flip the table, but convinced people, militants, they don't go to the other side... Even if you can find the rare case of a sick brain going from the far-left to the far-right (never the other way around, funny). Militants =/= voters, though. Among people who are really engaged in politics, you'll indeed never see far-left people voting for a far-right candidate and vice versa. But a good chunk of voters aren't engaged much, and thus vote depending on a few key subjects and/or feelings. And far-left and far-right, in this election, shared some key subjects : skepticism towards the EU and the euro, contestation of the current ruling class and of globalization, anti-americanism, appeal to the losers of the current system, etc e : I don't think many Mélenchon voters will vote for Le Pen, though, as he made his hate of the FN clear during his campaign. But the 3-4% that allowed him to jump from 15% to 19% at the end of the campaign might; | ||
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:35 TheDwf wrote: You edited the post after I answered. I maintain that this behavior is marginal. Oh sorry then, I edited as quickly as possible :/. And I don't mean that they like each other, but they are likely to vote for their ennemy. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:35 OtherWorld wrote: Militants =/= voters, though. Among people who are really engaged in politics, you'll indeed never see far-left people voting for a far-right candidate and vice versa. But a good chunk of voters aren't engaged much, and thus vote depending on a few key subjects and/or feelings. And far-left and far-right, in this election, shared some key subjects : skepticism towards the EU and the euro, contestation of the current ruling class and of globalization, anti-americanism, appeal to the losers of the current system, etc e : I don't think many Mélenchon voters will vote for Le Pen, though, as he made his hate of the FN clear during his campaign. But the 3-4% that allowed him to jump from 15% to 19% at the end of the campaign might; You'd have to test people who vote for Arthaud and Poutou (since they're the only far-left here, Mélenchon is radical left), but pollsters won't bother. Probably 80% abstention at least and marginal reports on Le Pen. Mélenchon voters' reports were tested in polls, they were globally between 5 and 10% for Le Pen, not significantly different from Hamon voters. Marginal. Probably 40-45% Macron, 5-10% Le Pen, 40-50% abstention. | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:33 Poopi wrote: If you quote the whole thing you could realize that's it's actually true, see stilt and I can tell you he is not the only one doing that I vote for Mélenchon, I could vote against Macron. As someone admirative of the jacobin, I don't think this's so extreme, except for the ones who are already content with the situation ofc. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
Poutou (far-left) refused to call for a Macron vote and said that he was not a rampart against the FN. He will participate in demonstrations against the FN. Mélenchon and his team don't acknowledge yet the results, they wait the end of the counting in big cities (they expect to gain votes, but the gap is most likely too large  ). | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:58 Big J wrote: If one could take the far-right populists seriously, I could find myself supporting them on many topics. Point is, they are not serious on those topics, never have been and never will be. Like Sanders said about Trump, if he is serious about his promises, he has his full support. Turns out that he didn't want to create a better Obamacare, he went full interventionism abroad, he wants to give the rich massive tax cuts and many more things... Well I mean, the far-right taking ideas from the far-left to gain popular appeal isn't a new thing. Remember what the S of NSDAP stands for. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
Dupont-Aignan also said that he will consult his party before making any decision. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 24 2017 05:01 OtherWorld wrote: Well I mean, the far-right taking ideas from the far-left to gain popular appeal isn't a new thing. Remember what the S of NSDAP stands for. Yeah. I'm still uncertain whether this is because the far-right doesn't understand that left-wing collectivism is something that origins in liberal and economical thinking and has nothing to do with national concepts, or whether there are actually clever elites behind this, that use the far-right for their purpose. I feel like it's a bit of both, idiot party soldiers that get a ton of money from rich privateers that have a personal interest in a national-focused economy (if you are the king of the hill, you don't want to compete with the king of the mountain). | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
Was your vote a convinced one? Macron: 52% [of Macron voters said their vote was a convinced one] Le Pen: 56 Fillon: 65 Mélenchon: 66 Hamon: 75 Vote by default + useful vote [to have the best chances to send the candidate to the second round]: Macron: 43% Le Pen: 22 Fillon: 32 Mélenchon: 26 Hamon: 23 Win prediction (who will win): Macron: 86% Le Pen: 13 [45% of Le Pen voters think she will win lol, so deluded] Don't know: 1 Who do you want to win: Macron: 48 Le Pen: 25 Neither: 27 Macron wins the second round 64/36 in this poll. | ||
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