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On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government.
May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare?
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On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry.  But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work.
No they will be cut because your employers are assholes that don't want to pay for employee healthcare.
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On October 02 2013 02:51 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. or maybe they can get the law changed? Just because something is law doesn't mean its permanent.
I could've sworn we just had an election a year ago where this was a major issue and the Democrats still received the majority of the popular vote...
There are quite a few Dems in the Senate that are willing to make modifications to the law. However, they are not willing to do it via the CR or debt ceiling fight.
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On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare?
He already explained it.
His hours will be cut to keep him below the limit at which Obamacare requires his employer to pay for his insurance.
On October 02 2013 02:54 Adila wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:51 Millitron wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. or maybe they can get the law changed? Just because something is law doesn't mean its permanent. I could've sworn we just had an election a year ago where this was a major issue and the Democrats still received the majority of the popular vote... There are quite a few Dems in the Senate that are willing to make modifications to the law. However, they are not willing to do it via the CR or debt ceiling fight.
And I could've sworn we weren't a democracy for a reason. The American public simply doesn't have access to the data necessary, nor the time to do the math necessary to figure out if Obamacare would actually be good for them.
Public opinion should not decide individual issues. "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch" - Ben Franklin
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On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare?
The main reason?
It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. You want to talk about tanking the economy in order to get your goals? Well, what happens when you intentionally collapse 1/6th the economy?
On October 02 2013 02:54 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry. But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work. No they will be cut because your employers are assholes that don't want to pay for employee healthcare.
My employers aren't running a charity. They are running a goddamn business. I don't blame them for a second for running a cost/benefit analysis and coming to the conclusion that cutting my hours is less expensive.
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On October 02 2013 02:47 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 21:44 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 01 2013 21:39 Th1rdEye wrote:On October 01 2013 21:32 jeremycafe wrote:It will all be over in a day or two, the country will move on, people will still get paid. Only ones who feel the suck are people who had plans to visit national parks. I have a 7 day backpacking trip planned for this friday, if the park is still closed by then I will surely be upset  Part of me believes this to be true as well. They all just wanted some vacation time. Who wouldn't? It was beautiful this past weekend. Anyway, it doesnt undermine the fact that Obamacare is a big big big big mistake and needs to be revised. It cannot pass in its current form. The middle class will be hurting. Most people work for corporations who already do not want to provide anything for their employees at times, and this will just give tons of otherwise healthy americans to pay for healthcare, all the while having their hours cut at work so they need to find part time work elsewhere which ends up costing more in the long run anyway. It's actually a pretty serious matter....I can't express how distasteful I am towards the Obamacare bill. I completely understand why people are so against obamacare, even though I don't agree. But saying "tons of otherwise healthy american" as if they shouldn't have to contribute because they're healthy is like saying people shouldn't have to pay for car insurance since they've never crashed their car before. I know this is hours late, but you don't have to pay for car insurance everywhere. That's a state-by-state decision. California doesn't require car insurance, New York does.Personally, I don't think the government should be able to force you to buy anything, property rights are the foundation of all human rights. Mandatory purchasing of insurance is a serious undermining of those rights. We had a government shut-down in 1995. Did that ruin the country?
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/insurance_suspension.htm
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On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare? The main reason? It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. You want to talk about tanking the economy in order to get your goals? Well, what happens when you intentionally collapse 1/6th the economy? Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:54 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry. But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work. No they will be cut because your employers are assholes that don't want to pay for employee healthcare. My employers aren't running a charity. They are running a goddamn business. I don't blame them for a second for running a cost/benefit analysis and coming to the conclusion that cutting my hours is less expensive.
Get a better job then, it's only your inability to find a job that pays for better insurance that's at fault here.
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On October 01 2013 21:11 electronic voyeur wrote:http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/30/20758038-shutdown-begins-as-congress-remains-deadlocked?liteThe US Federal government has officially shut down.For the first time in nearly two decades, the federal government staggered into a partial shutdown Monday at midnight after congressional Republicans stubbornly demanded changes in the nation's health care law as the price for essential federal funding and President Barack Obama and Democrats adamantly refused. As Congress gridlocked, Obama said a "shutdown will have a very real economic impact on real people, right away," with hundreds of thousands of federal workers furloughed and veterans' centers, national parks, most of the space agency and other government operations shuttered. He laid the blame at the feet of House Republicans, whom he accused of seeking to tie government funding to ideological demands, "all to save face after making some impossible promises to the extreme right wing of their party.” Show nested quote +
The shutdown is expected to place tens of thousands of federal workers on furlough, close national parks and monuments, and disrupt services like food assistance and IRS audits.
Services like benefit payments and national security operations would go on as usual, and -- because of a bipartisan measure passed by both houses of Congress and signed into law by the president late Monday -- members of the military will continue to be paid.
The new health care insurance "exchanges" mandated by the new health care law also went live even as the shutdown became official.
The full force of the shutdown has yet to be measured, and its effects have yet to be fully felt. Yet it is certain that the shutdown will have devastating short term and long term effects on all sectors of the US government. Do you think Obamacare should be revised? Should Congress have compromised? What could the government have done to prevent such a devastating event?
Hey look, two quotes about the Democratic President pointing fingers, and zero from the Republicans. Let me help out on the overall stream of giving token respect to the other side!
Boehner at a Republican Meeting
"If you really want to fight, you've got to put everything on the table."
Boehner House Floor
"I would say to the president, this is not about me," Mr. Boehner said. "It's not about Republicans. It's about fairness to the American people."
Boehner's Press Office
“Rejecting the House-passed effort to go to conference, Senate Democrats today slammed the door on re-opening the federal government by refusing to talk. This morning, Senate Democrats rejected regular order, rejected common-sense efforts to re-open the government, and rejected fairness for all Americans under the President’s health care law. House Republicans will continue our efforts to keep the government running. We hope that Senate Democrats – and President Obama – change course and start working with us on behalf of the American people.”
I could find others as well, this is just sampling
I never thought Boehner would be in it for the fight. He's gone far beyond when I thought he would stop. I applaud him for the move to threaten the government shutdown, which the Democrats called. His followup compromise to a delay in individual mandate and repeal of the medical device tax I'm still dubious on. If you're going to shut down the government over it, start from the position of strength and wait until the Democrats come to the table on compromise (they haven't).
Republicans stand tough on this, they keep the House and might pick up seats in Senate (I forget which vulnerable ones are up for grabs this coming round). Boehner continues in this aggressive vein and he stands to gain some conservative support. It's coming just as the base sees their plans going up or disappearing, and hearing the stories from friends and relatives. Time to remember just how much is deemed a critical service and not subject to the shutdown!
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The more I read about this the more I feel some people in the congress are very sore losers
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On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:49 Livelovedie wrote:On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry. But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work. Isn't the republican solution to stop whining and get a better job then? I am looking for a better job, but the fact is that with little education and not a lot of work experience, getting a "better" job is hard. Obviously I don't blame anyone but myself for that, but that doesn't mean someone like me, who is technically below the poverty line, should have my hours cut. Just because I didn't make the best choices in my youth shouldn't give Obama the right to destroy my life.
Now that's the Republican anti-victim and hard work pays off attitude.
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On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare? The main reason? It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. You want to talk about tanking the economy in order to get your goals? Well, what happens when you intentionally collapse 1/6th the economy? Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:54 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry. But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work. No they will be cut because your employers are assholes that don't want to pay for employee healthcare. My employers aren't running a charity. They are running a goddamn business. I don't blame them for a second for running a cost/benefit analysis and coming to the conclusion that cutting my hours is less expensive.
It's not running about a charity . It's about making a profit while still providing for your employees and the community . ( thats how i was taught how it should be at least ) If you're only looking at the bottom line you're an greedy asshole .
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On October 02 2013 00:49 Aiobhill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 00:35 jeremysaint wrote:
I notice that the only support for republicans is from people in the usa. Foreigners support democrats or are (rarely) indifferent. Coincidentally im sure, foreigners are also overwhelmingly better informed on usa politics than americans. Disagree on the better informed part. Many of the America bashers in Europe have preciously little clue what they talk about. Describing all Germans as Schnitzel-eating yodelling Nazis would betray a quite similar depth of knowledge. As an excuse, many just regurgitate what the media indoctrinates them with. RTL, the biggest private TV channel in Germany, during the Iraq war showed photographs showing him in civil attire when talking about Hussein and showed either Rambo or Lucky Luke mockups with Bush's head attached when talking about Bush. No kidding.
Now, that is hilarious.
Guys, while I usually dislike it when folks try to ride the fence or sit in the middle of both camps claiming compromise when they actually believe, or support, nothing, the people in this thread that are massively in favor of one side or the other, I think, need to take a step back. The sad fact of the matter is that, among other things, it's more complicated than everyone wants to let on, both sides are vying politically, and corruption runs deep in both the House and the Senate in all parties involved. It does little good to figure out who is to blame, but if you really want to know, they all are. And, so are we.
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On October 02 2013 03:01 Grollicus wrote:
The more I read about this the more I feel some people in the congress are very sore losers
You, sir, have a better grasp on the situation than most 
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On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare? The main reason? It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. You want to talk about tanking the economy in order to get your goals? Well, what happens when you intentionally collapse 1/6th the economy? Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:54 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry. But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work. No they will be cut because your employers are assholes that don't want to pay for employee healthcare. My employers aren't running a charity. They are running a goddamn business. I don't blame them for a second for running a cost/benefit analysis and coming to the conclusion that cutting my hours is less expensive.
I dont think you are quite looking at it right. In order to run a business the health of your workers is something that also is very very important and universal healthcare would do loads to improve the health of the American workforce which in the end would result in a better workforce which is of course more productive and more money for your employer in the long term. Healthcare is not just an extra burden with no benefits.
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On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government.
Republicans are engaging in an act of economic terrorism because they already tried to fight the law 41 times and lost every time, and for some reason can't accept the fact that when something is voted on, signed into law by the president, and has been upheld as constitutional by the supreme court, they should let it go and maybe focus on an area where they can actually do something that isn't ridiculous like shutting the government down.
Republicans passed 3-4 copies of the same exact bill that got turned down because it was saying 'give us this or we blow up the government'. Please stop trying to pretend that this is mostly on the democrats.
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On October 02 2013 03:00 XCetron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:47 Millitron wrote:On October 01 2013 21:44 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 01 2013 21:39 Th1rdEye wrote:On October 01 2013 21:32 jeremycafe wrote:It will all be over in a day or two, the country will move on, people will still get paid. Only ones who feel the suck are people who had plans to visit national parks. I have a 7 day backpacking trip planned for this friday, if the park is still closed by then I will surely be upset Part of me believes this to be true as well. They all just wanted some vacation time. Who wouldn't? It was beautiful this past weekend. Anyway, it doesnt undermine the fact that Obamacare is a big big big big mistake and needs to be revised. It cannot pass in its current form. The middle class will be hurting. Most people work for corporations who already do not want to provide anything for their employees at times, and this will just give tons of otherwise healthy americans to pay for healthcare, all the while having their hours cut at work so they need to find part time work elsewhere which ends up costing more in the long run anyway. It's actually a pretty serious matter....I can't express how distasteful I am towards the Obamacare bill. I completely understand why people are so against obamacare, even though I don't agree. But saying "tons of otherwise healthy american" as if they shouldn't have to contribute because they're healthy is like saying people shouldn't have to pay for car insurance since they've never crashed their car before. I know this is hours late, but you don't have to pay for car insurance everywhere. That's a state-by-state decision. California doesn't require car insurance, New York does.Personally, I don't think the government should be able to force you to buy anything, property rights are the foundation of all human rights. Mandatory purchasing of insurance is a serious undermining of those rights. We had a government shut-down in 1995. Did that ruin the country? http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/insurance_suspension.htm
Fine. Mississippi still doesn't require it.
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On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare? The main reason? It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. You want to talk about tanking the economy in order to get your goals? Well, what happens when you intentionally collapse 1/6th the economy? Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:54 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry. But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work. No they will be cut because your employers are assholes that don't want to pay for employee healthcare. My employers aren't running a charity. They are running a goddamn business. I don't blame them for a second for running a cost/benefit analysis and coming to the conclusion that cutting my hours is less expensive.
the unfortunate result of a sweeping change is that some will lose while others gain.
maybe you can be more altruistic than your employers and feel better for the poor people who now has better access to medical care
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On October 02 2013 03:05 heartlxp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare? The main reason? It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. You want to talk about tanking the economy in order to get your goals? Well, what happens when you intentionally collapse 1/6th the economy? On October 02 2013 02:54 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry. But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work. No they will be cut because your employers are assholes that don't want to pay for employee healthcare. My employers aren't running a charity. They are running a goddamn business. I don't blame them for a second for running a cost/benefit analysis and coming to the conclusion that cutting my hours is less expensive. the unfortunate result of a sweeping change is that some will lose while others gain. maybe you can be more altruistic than your employers and feel better for the poor people who now has better access to medical care
You won't convince that guy with the word altruism, he couldn't care less.
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On October 02 2013 03:03 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. Republicans are engaging in an act of economic terrorism because they already tried to fight the law 41 times and lost every time, and for some reason can't accept the fact that when something is voted on, signed into law by the president, and has been upheld as constitutional by the supreme court, they should let it go and maybe focus on an area where they can actually do something that isn't ridiculous like shutting the government down. Republicans passed 3-4 copies of the same exact bill that got turned down because it was saying 'give us this or we blow up the government'. Please stop trying to pretend that this is mostly on the democrats.
Oh thats right, republicans are also going to cost the economy BILLIONS of dollars for every week that they keep this up so @ Sc2superfan, you should be more angry at the republic party because in the long term the damage they do if they keep up the government shut down will be far more costly to the economy, and eventually your employers and then to you, than the extra burden of obamacare.
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On October 02 2013 03:01 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare? The main reason? It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. You want to talk about tanking the economy in order to get your goals? Well, what happens when you intentionally collapse 1/6th the economy? On October 02 2013 02:54 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry. But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work. No they will be cut because your employers are assholes that don't want to pay for employee healthcare. My employers aren't running a charity. They are running a goddamn business. I don't blame them for a second for running a cost/benefit analysis and coming to the conclusion that cutting my hours is less expensive. Get a better job then, it's only your inability to find a job that pays for better insurance that's at fault here.
Or the people who can't afford health insurance can get a better job.
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EPT
