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On October 02 2013 03:16 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:13 farvacola wrote:On October 02 2013 03:12 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 03:08 Djzapz wrote:On October 02 2013 03:07 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 03:01 farvacola wrote:On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare? The main reason? It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. You want to talk about tanking the economy in order to get your goals? Well, what happens when you intentionally collapse 1/6th the economy? On October 02 2013 02:54 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:[quote] Sorry.  But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work. No they will be cut because your employers are assholes that don't want to pay for employee healthcare. My employers aren't running a charity. They are running a goddamn business. I don't blame them for a second for running a cost/benefit analysis and coming to the conclusion that cutting my hours is less expensive. Get a better job then, it's only your inability to find a job that pays for better insurance that's at fault here. Or the people who can't afford health insurance can get a better job. Sure and then somebody else will get the vacant job and they won't be able to afford health insurance and they'll be at a higher risk. Also not everybody can get a better job for a bunch of reasons. Bingo. I made shitty choices in my youth. I didn't go to school and I wasn't always the best worker. So I eventually took my future in my own hands and moved to North Dakota from California with nothing. I managed to get a job and am finally putting my life in order and now I have to deal with this crap? And then I get Democrats and liberals telling me to just go find a better job? Yeah, that's really gonna help foster that entrepreneurial spirit in our people. "Hey we're gonna put a bunch of roadblocks in your way when you try to improve yourself. Oh, but don't complain because you should just find someway to get over those roadblocks. How you ask? We don't give a shit. Just do it." Not everyone can, wants to, or should be like you, and your personal story means very little when it comes to national policy. So wait, who exactly is Obamacare aimed at helping then? If people who have shitty jobs are getting their hours cut over it, they are worse off. People with good jobs already either get insurance through their employer or can afford their own if they want it. Who does it help?
Liberals and Progressives to destroy the entrepreneurial spirit of the American people and make them slaves and dependent to the state and its social programs.
On a more serious note, the rift between the left and the right in the US is here to stay, really NO room or compromise(in the traditional sense). Ideology at its best really 
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On October 02 2013 03:24 AdamBanks wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:18 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 03:13 farvacola wrote:On October 02 2013 03:12 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 03:08 Djzapz wrote:On October 02 2013 03:07 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 03:01 farvacola wrote:On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:
[quote]
Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay?
Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason.
BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare? The main reason? It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. You want to talk about tanking the economy in order to get your goals? Well, what happens when you intentionally collapse 1/6th the economy? On October 02 2013 02:54 s3rp wrote:No they will be cut because your employers are assholes that don't want to pay for employee healthcare. My employers aren't running a charity. They are running a goddamn business. I don't blame them for a second for running a cost/benefit analysis and coming to the conclusion that cutting my hours is less expensive. Get a better job then, it's only your inability to find a job that pays for better insurance that's at fault here. Or the people who can't afford health insurance can get a better job. Sure and then somebody else will get the vacant job and they won't be able to afford health insurance and they'll be at a higher risk. Also not everybody can get a better job for a bunch of reasons. Bingo. I made shitty choices in my youth. I didn't go to school and I wasn't always the best worker. So I eventually took my future in my own hands and moved to North Dakota from California with nothing. I managed to get a job and am finally putting my life in order and now I have to deal with this crap? And then I get Democrats and liberals telling me to just go find a better job? Yeah, that's really gonna help foster that entrepreneurial spirit in our people. "Hey we're gonna put a bunch of roadblocks in your way when you try to improve yourself. Oh, but don't complain because you should just find someway to get over those roadblocks. How you ask? We don't give a shit. Just do it." Not everyone can, wants to, or should be like you, and your personal story means very little when it comes to national policy. Your employer cut your hours, boohoo, when this happens to poor, black, or minority voters, y'all tip your chin to the sky and say, "You need to work harder." Sorry, sc2superfan, you need a better job, and your employers lack of altruism is no one's fault but your own. His story does matter, I think you are forgetting that every individual is important, besides you cannot seriously believe that he is the only person in this situations, there are many many people in his exact same situation and trying to just push his story to the side as non-important is a poor way to look at this. But cant those individuals just work harder to get moer education and a better job? ;P therefore theres no one to blame but themselves? Its not my fault he wasnt born rich and made poor decisions
Its not very easy for someone to go back and get an education. And even then there are plenty of people who have proper education/worked hard but were dealt a pretty crappy hand.
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Canada13389 Posts
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power.
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On October 02 2013 03:24 greenelve wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:12 Djzapz wrote:On October 02 2013 03:08 greenelve wrote:On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:
It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. May i ask how health care can lead to a collapse? And what is "single-payer"? :/ A system in which the government "insures" everybody, basically. That said, the law was not designed to get the healthcare industry to collapse. That's some conspiracy theory bullshit that you can expect sc2superfan to believe. Well...health care isnt anything else than a big pot where everyone is paying into and if someone gets sick and needs money, he can take something out of the pot. Its the same like unemployment benefit (which should exist in USA...afair...). Do people really turn this into conspiracy? 
Well I'm not sure what you're asking but essentially he's saying that Obama's plans with "Obamacare" was to crash the private healthcare market to make this "big pot" you speak of. If that were true, it would be conspiracy-ish... but the idea is quite obviously preposterous and it's just one of the many irrational arguments brought forward by the less-educated republicans and teapartiers to try to discredit "Obamacare". Meanwhile, wiser republicans bring up the legitimate weaknesses of Obamacare instead of bringing up populist doomsday BS.
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On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power.
The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown.
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On October 02 2013 03:28 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:24 greenelve wrote:On October 02 2013 03:12 Djzapz wrote:On October 02 2013 03:08 greenelve wrote:On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:
It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. May i ask how health care can lead to a collapse? And what is "single-payer"? :/ A system in which the government "insures" everybody, basically. That said, the law was not designed to get the healthcare industry to collapse. That's some conspiracy theory bullshit that you can expect sc2superfan to believe. Well...health care isnt anything else than a big pot where everyone is paying into and if someone gets sick and needs money, he can take something out of the pot. Its the same like unemployment benefit (which should exist in USA...afair...). Do people really turn this into conspiracy? Well I'm not sure what you're asking but essentially he's saying that Obama's plans with "Obamacare" was to crash the private healthcare market to make this "big pot" you speak of. If that were true, it would be conspiracy-ish... but the idea is quite obviously preposterous and it's just one of the many irrational arguments brought forward by the less-educated republicans and teapartiers to try to discredit "Obamacare". Meanwhile, wiser republicans bring up the legitimate weaknesses of Obamacare instead of bringing up populist doomsday BS.
Never underestimate the power of populist doomsday bs on Christians, they (we i guesS) have been waiting for that shit for like 2000 years.
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Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine...
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Obama's health care bill is very badly done. Aside from the problem sc2superfan has with it there are provisions banning govenment bargaining with over drug prices amd similar stuff. Essentially it's a huge pork bill for the pharmaceutical, health care and insurance industries.
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On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine...
All successful politicans prolly meet the criteria for something in the DSM. These days they are a class unto there own.
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On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine...
Serious answer: no.
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On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine...
American politicians can afford to be crazy. Other politicians cannot.
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Could someone make a poll on when the government will re-open again?
With the options: 1-3 days, 4 days- 1 week, between 1 week and 2 weeks,longer then 2 weeks,never.
I dont know how to make polls but am kinda curious what people think and we might as well have some fun with it lol.
My guess is between 4 days and 1 week. The debt ceiling is nearing and that definatly will have to be dealth with or we will see a realy significant imput on the us (and world) economy.
Republican party uses obama care as leverage in raising the debt ceiling as well,it seems to be a bit of the same discussion.
Obama will not give in on obama care i think, (it basicly is the core of his presidency and the biggest thing he wants to achieve) so the republicans have to make way sooner or later annyway as letting usa default on their debt is not an option.
They will probably do so at the verry verry last moment though.
"Obama's health care bill is very badly done. Aside from the problem sc2superfan has with it there are provisions banning govenment bargaining with over drug prices amd similar stuff. Essentially it's a huge pork bill for the pharmaceutical, health care and insurance industries."
Hmm now it starts to make sense to me why the republicans are so fiercely against it.
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On October 02 2013 03:35 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine... Serious answer: no.
Serious response: Read history.
The ancient greeks up to now should be sufficent
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Canada13389 Posts
On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown.
That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care
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On October 02 2013 03:37 Anesthetic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine... American politicians can afford to be crazy. Other politicians cannot.
Well, Spanish politicians are just stupid, i don't know what's worse.
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On October 01 2013 21:21 LaughingTulkas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 21:11 electronic voyeur wrote:http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/30/20758038-shutdown-begins-as-congress-remains-deadlocked?liteThe US Federal government has officially shut down.For the first time in nearly two decades, the federal government staggered into a partial shutdown Monday at midnight after congressional Republicans stubbornly demanded changes in the nation's health care law as the price for essential federal funding and President Barack Obama and Democrats adamantly refused. As Congress gridlocked, Obama said a "shutdown will have a very real economic impact on real people, right away," with hundreds of thousands of federal workers furloughed and veterans' centers, national parks, most of the space agency and other government operations shuttered. He laid the blame at the feet of House Republicans, whom he accused of seeking to tie government funding to ideological demands, "all to save face after making some impossible promises to the extreme right wing of their party.”
The shutdown is expected to place tens of thousands of federal workers on furlough, close national parks and monuments, and disrupt services like food assistance and IRS audits.
Services like benefit payments and national security operations would go on as usual, and -- because of a bipartisan measure passed by both houses of Congress and signed into law by the president late Monday -- members of the military will continue to be paid.
The new health care insurance "exchanges" mandated by the new health care law also went live even as the shutdown became official.
The full force of the shutdown has yet to be measured, and its effects have yet to be fully felt. Yet it is certain that the shutdown will have devastating short term and long term effects on all sectors of the US government. Do you think Obamacare should be revised? Should Congress have compromised? What could the government have done to prevent such a devastating event? It can't really be that devastating because both sides of the aisle would rather this happen than have any change in their stance on healthcare. So at least from their perspective, this is a the preferable outcome. Thinking that it's some catastrophic event is just media hype. Basically some fringe government employees are not going to have to go on furlough, which while very unfortunate for their families, is not some great terrible event in the grand scheme of things. Dems would rather have a shutdown than change Obamacare. Rebs would rather have a shutdown than accept Obamacare. Q.E.D. we have a shutdown. (Hey, how about we cut back government spending so we don't have to keep borrowing more money to pay for the government and this whole issue goes away. Am I crazy? Cut all program's budgets by like 2% or whatever needed, I'm SURE there is fat to be trimmed and we don't have to lose any services.)
I wish people would stop saying Q.E.D. when they don't know how to use it properly.
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On October 02 2013 03:35 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine... Serious answer: no.
Eh. We have some pretty insane politicians.
To be completely honest, I think the Republicans are 100% to blame here regardless if Obamacare is good policy or not. It's completely stupid and against the spirit of democracy and government to hold the country hostage because you don't agree with policy. The policy was passed and now both sides need to honor it. Can you imagine how disfunctional the country/world would be if every political party shut down the government every time the opposing side passes a policy they disagree with? If the Democrats give in, this just provides a terrible precedent for the future that can be abused by both Democrats and Republicans.
On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care
That's not how the US federal government works and it arguablly should not work that way. Going to the people for the final say on every single contentious issue is not a good solution. Regardless of how bad or contentious the policy may be, Obamacare was passed legitimately by the government and needs to be honored. The Republicans have tried to repeal the policy through legitimate channels many many times and failed. It clearly is not going away. Now they're resorting to illegitimate means to get it repealed.
This situation akin to a small child throwing a tantrum because he doesn't want to eat his vegetables after he tried crying to his parents about how bad the vegetables tastes.
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Yo Joe, tell Obama I'm not talking to him anymore. I'd tell him myself but I'm not talking to him anymore. Thanks. Faith in humanity -10 points.
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On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care
The best part is that the GOP has already tried repealing ACA 41 times, and hasn't gotten it done once!
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On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care
Absolutely not. The American public doesn't have access to the data, nor the time or skills required, to figure out it'd be good for them. And even if it's good for a majority, that still doesn't mean its a good idea, because it may only be good short-term, while being terrible long-term.
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch." - Ben Franklin
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