|
Canada13407 Posts
On October 02 2013 03:41 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine... Serious answer: no. Eh. We have some pretty insane politicians. To be completely honest, I think the Republicans are 100% to blame here regardless if Obamacare is good policy or not. It's completely stupid and against the spirit of democracy and government to hold the country hostage because you don't agree with policy. The policy was passed and now both sides need to honor it. Can you imagine how disfunctional the country/world would be if every political party shut down the government every time the opposing side passes a policy they disagree with? If the Democrats give in, this just provides a terrible precedent for the future that can be abused by both Democrats and Republicans. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care That's not how the US federal government works and it arguablly should not work that way. Going to the people for the final say on every single contentious issue is not a good solution. Regardless of how bad or contentious the policy may be, Obamacare was passed legitimately by the government and needs to be honored.
I agree that it should be honoured but sometimes when something is so problematic that it can cost the country billions in time lost it might be better to allow the people to vote on it -_- then again obamacare isn't as far reaching as universal healthcare so for universal healthcare I would expect a national vote 
|
The public is the sheep then i guess?
|
so tired of those shitty powergames. they dont care whats good for the people,makes sense or is bad. its only about having the bigger politicspeen .
well guess thats what rich old men do.
|
On October 02 2013 03:47 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:41 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 02 2013 03:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine... Serious answer: no. Eh. We have some pretty insane politicians. To be completely honest, I think the Republicans are 100% to blame here regardless if Obamacare is good policy or not. It's completely stupid and against the spirit of democracy and government to hold the country hostage because you don't agree with policy. The policy was passed and now both sides need to honor it. Can you imagine how disfunctional the country/world would be if every political party shut down the government every time the opposing side passes a policy they disagree with? If the Democrats give in, this just provides a terrible precedent for the future that can be abused by both Democrats and Republicans. On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care That's not how the US federal government works and it arguablly should not work that way. Going to the people for the final say on every single contentious issue is not a good solution. Regardless of how bad or contentious the policy may be, Obamacare was passed legitimately by the government and needs to be honored. I agree that it should be honoured but sometimes when something is so problematic that it can cost the country billions in time lost it might be better to allow the people to vote on it -_- then again obamacare isn't as far reaching as universal healthcare so for universal healthcare I would expect a national vote
That's not really the issue though. Perhaps Obamacare is terrible and will bankrupt the country (it won't). Perhaps it's the best thing ever and we can all sing Kumbaya and no one will have bad experiences with health insurance again (it's not). Regardless of the policy, this law was passed and withstood numerous attempts by its opponents to repeal it. It's here for good and the House Republicans are being irresponsible and petty by doing this.
It's not the policy that's costing the country billions, it's the refusal of the House Republicans to understand how a representative democracy works that's costing the country billions.
|
On October 02 2013 03:48 Rassy wrote:
The public is the sheep then i guess?
No the sheep is the minority, there are twice as many wolves. In direct democracy the majority will vote to fuck over the minority.
|
On October 02 2013 03:39 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:37 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine... American politicians can afford to be crazy. Other politicians cannot. Well, Spanish politicians are just stupid, i don't know what's worse.
Oh believe me, Republicans beat anybody at that. Just consider that a consequent part of them believe the earth is 6000 years old, and you understand how screwed Americans are.
The idea that those people might get back to power at some point in the future is terrifying.
|
On October 02 2013 03:45 Millitron wrote:
Absolutely not. The American public doesn't have access to the data, nor the time or skills required, to figure out it'd be good for them. And even if it's good for a majority, that still doesn't mean its a good idea, because it may only be good short-term, while being terrible long-term.
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch." - Ben Franklin
Thing is theoretically the media should provide the data and analysis for people to make sound decisions. I realize that this a tad naive given the state of the current US mass media. But an actual democratic decision would still be better than the current regime of reaching a solution depending on which lobby can buy the highest number of votes.
|
On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care
It's funny because that would result in Obamacare losing HUGE at the polls, probably by more than 10 points.
But I agree with everyone else. We shouldn't do things that way. Would be awesome just this once though.
|
Canada13407 Posts
On October 02 2013 03:49 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:47 ZeromuS wrote:On October 02 2013 03:41 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 02 2013 03:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine... Serious answer: no. Eh. We have some pretty insane politicians. To be completely honest, I think the Republicans are 100% to blame here regardless if Obamacare is good policy or not. It's completely stupid and against the spirit of democracy and government to hold the country hostage because you don't agree with policy. The policy was passed and now both sides need to honor it. Can you imagine how disfunctional the country/world would be if every political party shut down the government every time the opposing side passes a policy they disagree with? If the Democrats give in, this just provides a terrible precedent for the future that can be abused by both Democrats and Republicans. On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care That's not how the US federal government works and it arguablly should not work that way. Going to the people for the final say on every single contentious issue is not a good solution. Regardless of how bad or contentious the policy may be, Obamacare was passed legitimately by the government and needs to be honored. I agree that it should be honoured but sometimes when something is so problematic that it can cost the country billions in time lost it might be better to allow the people to vote on it -_- then again obamacare isn't as far reaching as universal healthcare so for universal healthcare I would expect a national vote That's not really the issue though. Perhaps Obamacare is terrible and will bankrupt the country (it won't). Perhaps it's the best thing ever and we can all sing Kumbaya and no one will have bad experiences with health insurance again (it's not). Regardless of the policy, this law was passed and withstood numerous attempts by its opponents to repeal it. It's here for good and the House Republicans are being irresponsible and petty by doing this.
OHHH so this isnt the first time they've tried to take it down. OK then. Ignore my ignorance on the matter not very well read on US politics just trying to understand it 
|
On October 02 2013 02:55 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare? He already explained it. His hours will be cut to keep him below the limit at which Obamacare requires his employer to pay for his insurance. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:54 Adila wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 Millitron wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. or maybe they can get the law changed? Just because something is law doesn't mean its permanent. I could've sworn we just had an election a year ago where this was a major issue and the Democrats still received the majority of the popular vote... There are quite a few Dems in the Senate that are willing to make modifications to the law. However, they are not willing to do it via the CR or debt ceiling fight. And I could've sworn we weren't a democracy for a reason. The American public simply doesn't have access to the data necessary, nor the time to do the math necessary to figure out if Obamacare would actually be good for them. Public opinion should not decide individual issues. "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch" - Ben Franklin
On October 02 2013 03:45 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care Absolutely not. The American public doesn't have access to the data, nor the time or skills required, to figure out it'd be good for them. And even if it's good for a majority, that still doesn't mean its a good idea, because it may only be good short-term, while being terrible long-term. "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch." - Ben Franklin
Libertarian spambot, or just a Randroid?
|
Canada13407 Posts
On October 02 2013 03:50 Hagen0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:45 Millitron wrote:
Absolutely not. The American public doesn't have access to the data, nor the time or skills required, to figure out it'd be good for them. And even if it's good for a majority, that still doesn't mean its a good idea, because it may only be good short-term, while being terrible long-term.
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch." - Ben Franklin Thing is theoretically the media should provide the data and analysis for people to make sound decisions. I realize that this a tad naive given the state of the current US mass media. But an actual democratic decision would still be better than the current regime of reaching a solution depending on which lobby can buy the highest number of votes.
I think this is just something that the US is different on. They are a different kind of democracy compared to Canada and the EU. Canada every year gets more like the US and I dislike it more and more.
|
On October 02 2013 03:28 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:24 greenelve wrote:On October 02 2013 03:12 Djzapz wrote:On October 02 2013 03:08 greenelve wrote:On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:
It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. May i ask how health care can lead to a collapse? And what is "single-payer"? :/ A system in which the government "insures" everybody, basically. That said, the law was not designed to get the healthcare industry to collapse. That's some conspiracy theory bullshit that you can expect sc2superfan to believe. Well...health care isnt anything else than a big pot where everyone is paying into and if someone gets sick and needs money, he can take something out of the pot. Its the same like unemployment benefit (which should exist in USA...afair...). Do people really turn this into conspiracy?  Well I'm not sure what you're asking but essentially he's saying that Obama's plans with "Obamacare" was to crash the private healthcare market to make this "big pot" you speak of. If that were true, it would be conspiracy-ish... but the idea is quite obviously preposterous and it's just one of the many irrational arguments brought forward by the less-educated republicans and teapartiers to try to discredit "Obamacare". Meanwhile, wiser republicans bring up the legitimate weaknesses of Obamacare instead of bringing up populist doomsday BS.
Harry Reid admitted that Obamacare can't work and that the plan is to use it to move ahead with single-payer.
It's legitimate weaknesses are so numerous and so burdensome that they will cause the collapse of the system.
|
On October 02 2013 03:12 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:08 greenelve wrote:On October 02 2013 02:55 sc2superfan101 wrote:
It's a law designed to fail. It was designed to lead to a collapse in the health-care industry so Democrats could use that collapse as ammo to get what they really want: single-payer. May i ask how health care can lead to a collapse? And what is "single-payer"? :/ A system in which the government "insures" everybody, basically. That said, the law was not designed to get the healthcare industry to collapse. That's some conspiracy theory bullshit that you can expect sc2superfan to believe.
This is exactly the case. I am surprised conservative talking point have gone so far off the deep end when the reality is so compelling. The reason social welfare programs are so feared by conservatives is that its impossible to take them away after they are given. After the ACA saves us billions in healthcare costs, saves millions of lives and saves even more from financial ruin there will be too much focus on the ends to change take issue with the means.
At the end of the day I think conservatives are fighting a losing battle. I would love to see a shift in focus by conservatives such that they say, if we are going to do social welfare then lets do it in the most fiscally responsible way possible. I would love to see a bill crafted by tea party Republicans that has as its only rule that it must provide affordable healthcare for every person in our borders without exception. I would also like to see this type of behavior from Democrats when Republicans are in power. If they set an agenda of tax cuts and business subsidies then that is what the American people voted for and we should try to do it in a way that helps those who need it most.
|
On October 02 2013 03:50 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:39 Godwrath wrote:On October 02 2013 03:37 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine... American politicians can afford to be crazy. Other politicians cannot. Well, Spanish politicians are just stupid, i don't know what's worse. Oh believe me, Republicans beat anybody at that. Just consider that a consequent part of them believe the earth is 6000 years old, and you understand how screwed Americans are. The idea that those people might get back to power at some point in the future is terrifying.
I blame South Park and other shitty media for making young people believe the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans.
|
On October 02 2013 03:48 Rassy wrote:
The public is the sheep then i guess?
The Sheep is people who will have their hours cut to avoid providing insurance for them, it's people who will be stuck paying higher insurance premiums, and its small businesses who will have to provide insurance for their employees.
The Wolves are big pharma, the AMA, and big insurance companies.
On October 02 2013 03:51 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:55 Millitron wrote:On October 02 2013 02:53 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay? Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason. BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government. May I ask why exactly you are so against Obamacare? He already explained it. His hours will be cut to keep him below the limit at which Obamacare requires his employer to pay for his insurance. On October 02 2013 02:54 Adila wrote:On October 02 2013 02:51 Millitron wrote:On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop. or maybe they can get the law changed? Just because something is law doesn't mean its permanent. I could've sworn we just had an election a year ago where this was a major issue and the Democrats still received the majority of the popular vote... There are quite a few Dems in the Senate that are willing to make modifications to the law. However, they are not willing to do it via the CR or debt ceiling fight. And I could've sworn we weren't a democracy for a reason. The American public simply doesn't have access to the data necessary, nor the time to do the math necessary to figure out if Obamacare would actually be good for them. Public opinion should not decide individual issues. "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch" - Ben Franklin Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:45 Millitron wrote:On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care Absolutely not. The American public doesn't have access to the data, nor the time or skills required, to figure out it'd be good for them. And even if it's good for a majority, that still doesn't mean its a good idea, because it may only be good short-term, while being terrible long-term. "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch." - Ben Franklin Libertarian spambot, or just a Randroid?
Rand Paul is not a Libertarian, despite what he might claim. He's a Neocon through and through.
|
On October 02 2013 03:50 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care It's funny because that would result in Obamacare losing HUGE at the polls, probably by more than 10 points. But I agree with everyone else. We shouldn't do things that way. Would be awesome just this once though.
Funnily enough, the same thing could be said about the GOP.
|
On October 02 2013 03:44 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care The best part is that the GOP has already tried repealing ACA 41 times, and hasn't gotten it done once!
This is after it was passed through Congress, signed by the President, deemed constitutional by the supreme court, and was one of the most important issues of the recent presidential election.
So this bill has already been through it all and Republicans still can't accept it.
|
On October 02 2013 03:49 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:47 ZeromuS wrote:On October 02 2013 03:41 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 02 2013 03:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine... Serious answer: no. Eh. We have some pretty insane politicians. To be completely honest, I think the Republicans are 100% to blame here regardless if Obamacare is good policy or not. It's completely stupid and against the spirit of democracy and government to hold the country hostage because you don't agree with policy. The policy was passed and now both sides need to honor it. Can you imagine how disfunctional the country/world would be if every political party shut down the government every time the opposing side passes a policy they disagree with? If the Democrats give in, this just provides a terrible precedent for the future that can be abused by both Democrats and Republicans. On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care That's not how the US federal government works and it arguablly should not work that way. Going to the people for the final say on every single contentious issue is not a good solution. Regardless of how bad or contentious the policy may be, Obamacare was passed legitimately by the government and needs to be honored. I agree that it should be honoured but sometimes when something is so problematic that it can cost the country billions in time lost it might be better to allow the people to vote on it -_- then again obamacare isn't as far reaching as universal healthcare so for universal healthcare I would expect a national vote That's not really the issue though. Perhaps Obamacare is terrible and will bankrupt the country (it won't). Perhaps it's the best thing ever and we can all sing Kumbaya and no one will have bad experiences with health insurance again (it's not). Regardless of the policy, this law was passed and withstood numerous attempts by its opponents to repeal it. It's here for good and the House Republicans are being irresponsible and petty by doing this. It's not the policy that's costing the country billions, it's the refusal of the House Republicans to understand how a representative democracy works that's costing the country billions.
I think the attempted repeals were up to 38 last time I checked. And these people have the gall to talk about wasting government resources.
It's childish and honestly embarrassing at this point, house republican are acting like angsty teenagers throwing a fit. ACA is here, it's going nowhere in the near future, and when they get slammed again in 2016 it will still be here.
Edit: 41 times apparently, gogo effective use of your time I guess.
|
On October 02 2013 03:50 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:39 ZeromuS wrote:On October 02 2013 03:31 GTPGlitch wrote:On October 02 2013 03:27 ZeromuS wrote:
OK is there somewhere I can read in simple terms why obamacare has resulted in the shut down?
This seems weird to me. In Canada if a budget bill is turned down the government keeps working and everyone goes back to the polls to elect another government. The idea being if the majority of the elected people representing the regular people are voting down a budget, then it means the people dont agree with how the gov wants to spend money so its time to vote and see who has the power. The majority in the house, the GOP, attached demands to the passing of the budget that included delaying obamacare/ACA for a year. Democrat majority in the Senate refused to negotiate with them because they don't want to bow to economic terrorism. House refused to send a budget without the OC/ACA attachments, Senate refuses to pass one with those attachments, government shutdown. That sounds so petty and ridiculous its disgusting. If its causing THAT big a rift in the government it should be put to a popular vote of the people. A referendum - everybody gets a chance to vote for obama care or against obama care It's funny because that would result in Obamacare losing HUGE at the polls, probably by more than 10 points. But I agree with everyone else. We shouldn't do things that way. Would be awesome just this once though.
Just want to point out that it's interesting that while approval for Obamacare is pretty darn low, when polls ask the public if they approve of individual items in Obamacare, approval for those items are generally quite high.
On October 02 2013 03:52 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 03:50 Biff The Understudy wrote:On October 02 2013 03:39 Godwrath wrote:On October 02 2013 03:37 Anesthetic wrote:On October 02 2013 03:32 sharkie wrote:
Are American politicians crazy?
Sorry if offensive, but this is a serious question of mine... American politicians can afford to be crazy. Other politicians cannot. Well, Spanish politicians are just stupid, i don't know what's worse. Oh believe me, Republicans beat anybody at that. Just consider that a consequent part of them believe the earth is 6000 years old, and you understand how screwed Americans are. The idea that those people might get back to power at some point in the future is terrifying. I blame South Park and other shitty media for making young people believe the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans.
Well to be fair the Democrats can be just as bad as Republicans. It just so happens that this time it's the Republicans who are going off the deep end.
|
This isn't a complete shutdown. If a government completely shuts down, people would be looting every store right now with no fear of law enforcement. The partial shutdown is more like someone not paying their rent and utilities because of some internal problem, except on a government scale. This isn't the citizen's problem and it doesn't affect most of us directly (ofc unless you work for the government directly; teachers, law enforcement, etc still have to work).
This shutdown is basically the GOP's last resort to stop obamacare from going into effect.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
