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On October 01 2013 23:52 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 23:37 insectoceanx wrote:
This is fun, I'm a federal employee, right now we cannot do our work, we have to be at the office, and we are not getting paid. Wait what? Why do you have to be at the office?
Take care of closing operations, i am just a lowly 1039 gs-4 though so i didnt really have anything to do than submit my timesheet.
This shutdown is a big deal, right now is a big tourist time in national parks for the fall color change. All parks are closed, So people who were planning vacations will have to cancel and millions of dollars in the tourism industry is going to be lost.
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Since the local police "went home" in many places does this mean I am allowed to do whatever I want?
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This whole thing is so ridiculous to watch for us modern Europeans. I can't imagine why two partys, representing a nation, would fight so selfish to ruin their nation, they want to represent. -_-
The stability of a country should never be dependend on politics of the day. Stability first, politics after that.
All blame on the Republicans.
I guess now the US has lost every right to criticize EU for its economic politics. Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy.
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Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy.
That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : (
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On October 02 2013 01:22 CannonsNCarriers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 01:16 MstrJinbo wrote:On October 02 2013 01:08 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On October 02 2013 01:03 MstrJinbo wrote:On October 02 2013 00:55 Nevuk wrote:On October 02 2013 00:44 MstrJinbo wrote:On October 02 2013 00:42 Nevuk wrote:On October 02 2013 00:28 Mercy13 wrote:On October 02 2013 00:14 riyanme wrote:On October 02 2013 00:02 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
[quote]
-impossible isnt french -N.B.
- compromise isnt american politics - US politicians.
way to get screwed by the dudes you empowered by voting for them.
also it baffles me to see americans refusing universal healthcare. I cant figure why you would not want it. thanks... im not american so i dont get the real issue here... like as he said, why would anyone not want a health care? as a foreinger who doesn't know the obama care... what are the cons? The main criticisms with merit that I have heard are: 1. The government cannot afford the subsidies that will be required for poor people to buy insurance on the exchanges. 2. The medical device tax (intended to help pay for those subsidies, along with other costs of the ACA) will hurt manufacturers and cause the US to lose jobs overseas. 3. The ACA requires small business owners with over a certain number of employees to provide health insurance for those employees. This may cost small businesses a lot, and they will hire fewer people as a result. Personally, I think these concerns are valid, and the ACA should be amended to address them. However, causing a shut down and threatening a default are tactics that are reckless and immoral, so I'm with the Dems on this one. On point #2 a few senate democrats have said they were willing to negotiate on that, if it were not for the fact that the house decided to use a government shutdown as leverage. Sets a bad precedent and all. edit - Also, the ACA isn't even close to universal health care. Bad precidence? Congress has been doing this stuff for decades. It's an established tactic. It's true that this is the 18th government shutdown, but the majority of the previous ones were resolved within a day or two and bore no resemblance to this issue (and were in the 70s..). If you want to use Gingrich as an example of a precedent then um. Not much to say there. The debt ceiling might be what you're thinking of (that is an established tactic). The CR has enough votes to pass in the house (the bill the senate wants passed), Boehner is refusing to bring it to the floor for a vote because of the Hastert Rule, the one that states that the majority of the majority party must support the bill in order to hold a vote (ostensibly that's the reason, he's broken the rule in the past). I really don't see why he is doing this outside of some bizarre desperate gamble to avoid being primaried, retain the speaker position, or just sabotage the tea party members of his party. Here is some reading material on past govt shutdowns http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2013/09/30/history-government-shutdowns/JCbyamnf0ifg6DSCpEsTkK/story.html it's a really common tactic used by both sides. Is it a valid tactic when either side does it? Valid is your word not mine. No one is disputing the legality of it if that is what you are asking. Fine. "Should" either side do it? Is it a morally right thing to do?
It depends entirely on why they are doing it. I would argue that in this instance it is both moral and immoral. It is perfectly moral for the Republicans to demand some concessions, and it is completely immoral for Obama to refuse to negotiate. If a government shut-down occurs because Obama refuses to negotiate and Republicans refuse to be cowed into irrelevancy then the moral thing to do is to allow the shut-down and force him to work with us.
Clinton was beat with a government shutdown, Obama will be to. As long as Republicans don't cave.
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I'm currently going through the final steps of becoming a Peace Corps volunteer.
Since all of the people who are managing my paperwork can't work now, the process is on hold indefinitely. Really sort of screwing with the potential next 3 years of my life.
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On October 02 2013 02:36 Ketara wrote:
I'm currently going through the final steps of becoming a Peace Corps volunteer.
Since all of the people who are managing my paperwork can't work now, the process is on hold indefinitely. Really sort of screwing with the potential next 3 years of my life.
3 years ? your lucky, they got me back at least 5, square one for the sake of an upcomming election which is pretty much alrdy lost.
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On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : (
Sorry. 
But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder...
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How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage.
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On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage.
My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown.
My hours will be cut because of Obamacare.
Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple.
On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry. But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder...
On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cooke
You edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work.
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On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage.
They are prolly like me and dont really care untill theres no food or pot left. ->monies
So today im thinkin if i was american id be just waiting for shit to pop off, but not today, thats more of a friday thing.
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US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem.
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On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple.
I love you dude, you're honest. I don't agree with some of the stuff you say but you believe it. ty.
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On October 02 2013 00:35 jeremysaint wrote:
I notice that the only support for republicans is from people in the usa. Foreigners support democrats or are (rarely) indifferent. Coincidentally im sure, foreigners are also overwhelmingly better informed on usa politics than americans.
Americans have different values and see things differently than most europeans/foreigners, while I am not far right by any means I have ideological clashes with many non-americans because I value the individual more than others.
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On October 01 2013 21:44 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 21:39 Th1rdEye wrote:On October 01 2013 21:32 jeremycafe wrote:It will all be over in a day or two, the country will move on, people will still get paid. Only ones who feel the suck are people who had plans to visit national parks. I have a 7 day backpacking trip planned for this friday, if the park is still closed by then I will surely be upset  Part of me believes this to be true as well. They all just wanted some vacation time. Who wouldn't? It was beautiful this past weekend. Anyway, it doesnt undermine the fact that Obamacare is a big big big big mistake and needs to be revised. It cannot pass in its current form. The middle class will be hurting. Most people work for corporations who already do not want to provide anything for their employees at times, and this will just give tons of otherwise healthy americans to pay for healthcare, all the while having their hours cut at work so they need to find part time work elsewhere which ends up costing more in the long run anyway. It's actually a pretty serious matter....I can't express how distasteful I am towards the Obamacare bill. I completely understand why people are so against obamacare, even though I don't agree. But saying "tons of otherwise healthy american" as if they shouldn't have to contribute because they're healthy is like saying people shouldn't have to pay for car insurance since they've never crashed their car before.
I know this is hours late, but you don't have to pay for car insurance everywhere. That's a state-by-state decision. California doesn't require car insurance, New York does.
Personally, I don't think the government should be able to force you to buy anything, property rights are the foundation of all human rights. Mandatory purchasing of insurance is a serious undermining of those rights.
On October 02 2013 02:32 Caladan wrote:
This whole thing is so ridiculous to watch for us modern Europeans. I can't imagine why two partys, representing a nation, would fight so selfish to ruin their nation, they want to represent. -_-
The stability of a country should never be dependend on politics of the day. Stability first, politics after that.
All blame on the Republicans.
I guess now the US has lost every right to criticize EU for its economic politics. Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy.
We had a government shut-down in 1995. Did that ruin the country?
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People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop.
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On October 02 2013 02:46 Anesthetic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 00:35 jeremysaint wrote:
I notice that the only support for republicans is from people in the usa. Foreigners support democrats or are (rarely) indifferent. Coincidentally im sure, foreigners are also overwhelmingly better informed on usa politics than americans. Americans have different values and see things differently than most europeans/foreigners, while I am not far right by any means I have ideological clashes with many non-americans because I value the individual more than others.
Value the individual? I dunno, more like you feel the individual has the power to overcome life with hardwork? The whole american thing (i thought) was that you could grab life by the balls and thru hardwork make this world your bitch. Correct me please.
edit: perhaps im overstating, its the opportunity provided to grab life by the balls thats apart of the american dream, not that its achieved? again help
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On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry. But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work.
Isn't the republican solution to stop whining and get a better job then?
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On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop.
Okay, well since Obama gave delays to all his friends and to Big Business why can't he give me a delay?
Republicans are fighting to stop the bullshit law from taking effect. They are not shutting down the government for no reason.
BTW, the Republicans passed 3-4 bills that would fund the government.
On October 02 2013 02:49 Livelovedie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 02:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On October 02 2013 02:39 unkkz wrote:
How is the American public not going crazy over this though? The chairman is pretty much holding an entire country hostage with the threat of extreme financial damage. My hours won't be cut because of a government shutdown. My hours will be cut because of Obamacare. Gotta say, I prefer the shutdown. Pretty simple. On October 02 2013 02:39 Caladan wrote:On October 02 2013 02:35 Mercy13 wrote:Even we wouldn't be so dumb, not even Italy. That's the meanest thing I've ever heard anyone say about America : ( Sorry. But seriously, you guys need to write your representatives, you need to act and remind them for whom they are working! Your politicians clearly lost their mind and need some reminder... On October 02 2013 02:42 mcc wrote:
US system is just purely nonsensical. If some group in the government has ability to shutdown the functioning of the government that should imply that they have some kind of majority popular support and then it should be them running the government, not the other side. If they do not have majority support they should not be able to shutdown government. The schizophrenical design of US political system is easily the cause of this problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/359992/powers-separated-purpose-charles-c-w-cookeYou edit: both should read this. It will clear some things up about the way our Republic is supposed to work. Isn't the republican solution to stop whining and get a better job then?
I am looking for a better job, but the fact is that with little education and not a lot of work experience, getting a "better" job is hard. Obviously I don't blame anyone but myself for that, but that doesn't mean someone like me, who is technically below the poverty line, should have my hours cut. Just because I didn't make the best choices in my youth shouldn't give Obama the right to destroy my life.
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On October 02 2013 02:47 Ketara wrote:
People who's hours are being cut because of Obamacare, that is unfortunate, but it is going to happen regardless of whether or not the government is shut down, because the law is already funded and still in effect even during the shutdown.
All the Republican congressmen are doing is hurting the country for no reason. They are throwing a childish temper tantrum. They need to stop.
or maybe they can get the law changed?
Just because something is law doesn't mean its permanent.
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EPT
