EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 549
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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kmh
Finland351 Posts
On August 29 2019 15:53 Sapaio wrote: This could also be a brilliant press ball against EU to get new deal proposal. Think EU is scared about no deal brexit and with no parliament to stop Boris looking like real possibility, I wouldn't be surprised if EU gave comprises to the soft brexit deal in order to stop Boris. The EU has had time to prepare for no deal and steps have been taken. Basically the UK is holding a gun to it's head and threatening to shoot itself in the head unless the demands are met. However at this point, the EU has donned their apron, put down plastic sheets all over the room, and are currently on the phone trying to find a carpet cleaner. The UK negotiation tactic of trying to make the EU blink has not worked in the slightest during the last three years and it's not about to work now. To think it would is delusional. The EU has laid out what is acceptable and will not budge on e.g. the backstop unless some alternative that prevents a hard border is presented. The UK will not get the EU to budge on this. The EU has been very clear about this for a very long time now. So if the UK is about to splatter itself all over the walls, it'll definitely hurt the EU, but unlike the UK, the EU has actually prepared for this eventuality. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22071 Posts
The 4 freedoms are as ever non-negotiable because to compromise that would compromise every EU negotiation going forward and undermine the entire principle. And something needs to be done about the Irish border, you can't just ignore it and have a gaping hole in the EU's customs area and just hope no one takes advantage of it. Sofar I haven't seen a single solution out of the UK for how to deal with Northern-Ireland. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5032 Posts
On August 29 2019 17:50 maybenexttime wrote: First of all, a no-deal Brexit did not get a majority. It wasn't even entertained as a plausible option at the time. Secondly, the Leave campaign was based entirely on lies and half-truths whereas the Remain campaign was rather honest for the most part. So, please, spare us this bullshit about a democratic vote. The Brexiters tried their best to misinform people so that they'd make an uninformed decision. There should be some rigorous testing available to see which constitutes as an actual majority, no? Like I can hardly say a 48-52 is a majority for the 52, because if you'd retake the test might as well be the other way around. Voter insecurity around the issue, nonchalance and non-voters (barely half of the entire population voted for this thing), makes this as flimsy a proof for a majority wanting to leave as you could have. Referenda like this are just self defeating, they offer no insight if not every single person votes. Why else do you have a population? Also, you'd need some benchmark, like a 2/3 majority or something to actually claim you have a majority on the issue. It's like you give someone a choice to eat a sandwich without them knowing what's on it and while he's still undecided, but leaning towards eating it (but still thinking it over!!) and while he's listing pros and cons and he's at 5 pro's and 4 cons, but has 10 pro's and cons to list, you just stop him then and there by just shoving the sandwich in his face. The entire situation is so absurd and complicated that it just becomes nonsensical. There are so many logistical and administration hurdles that all I can do is sit back and look how humans try to tackle this insane, unnecessary problem. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On August 29 2019 13:06 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Sorry where is the dictatorship here? Remember David Cameron? “If we vote to leave then we will leave.There will not be another renegotiation or another referendum”. 1:17 - refresh your memory... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gUsKWsPcRXE All Boris is doing is respecting the will of the majority in a democratic vote and delivering on the Brexit mandate laid down by his predecessors.Leave means leave, that was all promised and laid out prior to the vote.The undemocratic ones are those trying to stop that process. I'm sorry, Nettles, can you find me the part of the campaign where it was promised we were going to suspend parliament as part of this process? No? | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4381 Posts
On August 29 2019 20:16 iamthedave wrote: I'm sorry, Nettles, can you find me the part of the campaign where it was promised we were going to suspend parliament as part of this process? No? The original promise to the British people after article 50 was enacted in a huge majority vote was the UK would leave the EU by or on March 29, 2019.This was repeated numerous times by May. Clearly, promises aren’t what they used to be. | ||
KwarK
United States43532 Posts
On August 29 2019 21:55 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: The original promise to the British people after article 50 was enacted in a huge majority vote was the UK would leave the EU by or on March 29, 2019.This was repeated numerous times by May. Clearly, promises aren’t what they used to be. If you were promised a trip to France and showed up only to find they hadn’t finished building a boat would you demand they keep their promise by throwing you into the sea? This is national suicide. | ||
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KwarK
United States43532 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On August 29 2019 21:55 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: The original promise to the British people after article 50 was enacted in a huge majority vote was the UK would leave the EU by or on March 29, 2019.This was repeated numerous times by May. Clearly, promises aren’t what they used to be. Why lie? 52-48 is not a huge majority vote. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5748 Posts
On August 30 2019 02:59 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Why lie? 52-48 is not a huge majority vote. No to mention the fact that the Leave campaign leaders kept saying that leaving without a deal is outside the realm of possibility. "Easiest deal in history". | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On August 29 2019 19:06 ahswtini wrote: Leader of Scottish Conservatives Ruth Davidson has resigned https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/1167010124667527168 Just so people would understand the context, this was someone who managed to swing back the Conservative party in Scotland, of all places. On August 29 2019 14:38 mahrgell wrote: + Show Spoiler + Brexit will happen. and if he is no-confidenced before Brexit, this won't avoid Brexit, but just give him a nice majority to sit on for the next couple of years. At this point, one probably should wait with the vote of no confidence until 2 months after Brexit. Once the chaos has hit and even the most deluded realized what they got into. And then the following reelections can actually be won. And while at it, Corbyn probabably should leave too. Like even in the last hours, he hasn't given up on trying to achieve personal gain. He never cared about the matter itself. If he did, he wouldn't have poisoned every frickin bill by tying it to him becoming PM. The general way how the opposition is united, and how you get people to turn over from the government to your side is certainly not, by always putting yourself, one of the most hated politicians always on top. Instead of suggesting a "government of national unity", like it is done in most places in crisis situations, where someone neutral is put on top it was always: BUT I MUST BECOME PM... Fuck Corbyn, get out please. I am saying that this is very clever to avoid being a scapegoat. I didn't say this will prevent a hard brexit. | ||
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KwarK
United States43532 Posts
On August 30 2019 02:59 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Why lie? 52-48 is not a huge majority vote. He’s talking about the Parliamentary vote to invoke Article 50 with no plan and work out the deal later. I suspect most of the voters for that also assumed that no deal wasn’t an option because nobody actually wants no deal. | ||
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KwarK
United States43532 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11732 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9270 Posts
On August 30 2019 03:14 KwarK wrote: There is no way Scotland stays in the Union after this. The whole issue is Scots being outnumbered and dragged into whatever dumb idea the English have. Brexit is not doing much to alleviate their concerns. Why would they leave now? That means being out of both the EU and the UK for probably more than two years. Also, good luck negotiating a mutually acceptable withdrawal agreement with the UK's government  | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8231 Posts
On August 30 2019 04:12 Sent. wrote: Why would they leave now? That means being out of both the EU and the UK for probably more than two years. Also, good luck negotiating a mutually acceptable withdrawal agreement with the UK's government Well they can, and hear me out here, make plans and preperations for leaving before you actually pull the plug and doom your country to an economic apocalypse. It wouldn't be that hard to plan it so that leaving UK and joining EU would happen simultaneously. Almost like the Brits could learn a thing or two from that as well. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9270 Posts
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Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
On August 30 2019 05:17 Excludos wrote: Well they can, and hear me out here, make plans and preperations for leaving before you actually pull the plug and doom your country to an economic apocalypse. It wouldn't be that hard to plan it so that leaving UK and joining EU would happen simultaneously. Almost like the Brits could learn a thing or two from that as well. Political mood in Scotland has favoured a quick, possibly accelerated, eu membership for a while now. SNP MEPs are generally well received and there seems to be a genuine desire from both sides to have a good relationship if independence were to happen. Obviously practicalities may turn differently, Spain usually being tipped as having most to lose from Scottish independence given Catalonian and Basque-country causes. I'm more wary for the currency. There was no real address of that question, and afaik there hasn't been any serious proposals or studies of what Scotland should do. Using Euro outside Eu or pound when outside UK may be difficult for central bank logistics, even if it is only a short term situation. And that doesn't address national feeling or sentimental at all yet | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On August 30 2019 03:34 Simberto wrote: This is what I've thought might happen. What does NI stand to gain by staying with the UK if/when it leaves the EU? If they stay with the UK, the UK leaves the EU, and the UK doesn't get their shit together for solving the border problem (by how big of a mess everything is, this is probably going to be the case), then there could be a lot of issues popping up for NI and Ireland. Not to mention NI stayed with the UK it would be tied to an economy that is almost certainly going to tank/go into a recession, and be tied to a currency that is likely to drop substantially in value. I just can't see why they would stay. Scotland already appears to be prepared to leave the UK to stay in the EU, and I would think NI would follow.Hey, that would also be a way to solve the problem with the NI border. NI just leaves the UK and stays in the EU, either as a part of Ireland or on their own. | ||
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