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UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 524

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Posts containing only Tweets or articles adds nothing to the discussions. Therefore, when providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion.
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Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18452 Posts
May 23 2019 09:17 GMT
#10461
Remember when Bush had a shoe thrown at him and the internet thought that was hilarious?
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
May 23 2019 10:29 GMT
#10462
On May 23 2019 18:17 Acrofales wrote:
Remember when Bush had a shoe thrown at him and the internet thought that was hilarious?


The internet was definitely correct.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Rasalased
Profile Joined May 2019
89 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-23 10:35:29
May 23 2019 10:34 GMT
#10463
The extreme right just wants to weaponize everything. They want this stuff thrown at them, so they can talk about the left assassinating people. It especially helps them because they know the extreme right is far more violent than the extreme left. So the more they can get people to talk about extreme left violence, the better. Especially when they know that their rhetoric is directly fanning and in some cases even condoning that extreme right violence.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22638 Posts
May 23 2019 10:45 GMT
#10464
On May 23 2019 18:17 Acrofales wrote:
Remember when Bush had a shoe thrown at him and the internet thought that was hilarious?
Because it was an insult to Bush, who ducked expertly and wasn't meant as an attempt at inflicting bodily harm.

If the man had thrown bricks the reaction would have been very different from most people (there will always be some who cheer for people they dont agree with being hurt).
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18452 Posts
May 23 2019 11:35 GMT
#10465
On May 23 2019 19:45 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2019 18:17 Acrofales wrote:
Remember when Bush had a shoe thrown at him and the internet thought that was hilarious?
Because it was an insult to Bush, who ducked expertly and wasn't meant as an attempt at inflicting bodily harm.

If the man had thrown bricks the reaction would have been very different from most people (there will always be some who cheer for people they dont agree with being hurt).

I was just contrasting it with this faux outrage over a milkshake.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27460 Posts
May 23 2019 15:04 GMT
#10466
On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.


Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things.

If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers.


Show nested quote +
“Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.

“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.

“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.



That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat).

Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters.

Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny.

My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion.

This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing.

I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something.

Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too.

Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous.

The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen.

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-23 15:06:58
May 23 2019 15:06 GMT
#10467
In other news, many europeans report that they're denied their vote.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/eu-citizens-denied-vote-european-election-polling-booths-admin-errors

Officially second class citizen now, feels good to live and pay taxes here.
On track to MA1950A.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27460 Posts
May 23 2019 15:09 GMT
#10468
On May 24 2019 00:06 m4ini wrote:
In other news, many europeans report that they're denied their vote.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/eu-citizens-denied-vote-european-election-polling-booths-admin-errors

Officially second class citizen now, feels good to live and pay taxes here.

How do we fuck up that badly? :S
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-23 15:14:42
May 23 2019 15:13 GMT
#10469
Not really hard to understand once you experienced the UK as a foreigner. Hell it's not even hard to understand by just listening to your politicians talk.
On track to MA1950A.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10960 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-23 15:19:30
May 23 2019 15:18 GMT
#10470
Your goverment/buerocracy is a total mess since you were not supposed to take part in these elections and, oh wonder, you are not prepared.

Other reasons might or might not entail:
+ Show Spoiler +
Your official ruler is still a Queen.
Your second chamber of parlament is still largely hereditiary.
Your goverment over the last 3 years has proven to be totally incapable of reaching any sort of compromise due to a crysis your former goverment, the same party, started.
Your media is blatantly spewing anti EU lies since forever.
Your Politicians and the Media blame the EU for tons of your homemmade Problems.
Your electorate has and had absolutely no clue what the EU does.
Your treating EU-Elections and public referendums like protest votes whiteout any regard to whats actually at stake but the colour of passports is a major topic.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
May 23 2019 15:19 GMT
#10471
You forgot "hostile enviroment".
On track to MA1950A.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
May 23 2019 15:24 GMT
#10472
On May 24 2019 00:04 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:
I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.


Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things.

If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers.


“Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.

“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.

“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.



That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat).

Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters.

Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny.

My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion.

This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing.

I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something.

Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too.

Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous.

The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen.


A striking difference could be that Abbott gets flack because she's a black person and/or a woman,rather than because of her policies. Meaning the same reason for her getting shit upon wouldn't get a white man in trouble.

Farage gets flack because of his awful standpoints and lies.

Not sure what you had in mind about Abbott though, couldn't really find something despicable about her just now.
passive quaranstream fan
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27460 Posts
May 23 2019 15:25 GMT
#10473
On May 24 2019 00:18 Velr wrote:
Your goverment/buerocracy is a total mess since you were not supposed to take part in these elections and, oh wonder, you are not prepared.

Other reasons might or might not entail:
+ Show Spoiler +
Your official ruler is still a Queen.
Your second chamber of parlament is still largely hereditiary.
Your goverment over the last 3 years has proven to be totally incapable of reaching any sort of compromise due to a crysis your former goverment, the same party, started.
Your media is blatantly spewing anti EU lies since forever.
Your Politicians and the Media blame the EU for tons of your homemmade Problems.
Your electorate has and had absolutely no clue what the EU does.
Your treating EU-Elections and public referendums like protest votes whiteout any regard to whats actually at stake but the colour of passports is a major topic.

I don’t think some of that is fair, the Irish have fuck all idea what the EU actually does either, they just tend to like it so their ignorance isn’t exposed.

Not sure about other parts of Europe, I imagine it’s broadly the case but can’t really comment on anyone but our neighbours.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27460 Posts
May 23 2019 15:40 GMT
#10474
On May 24 2019 00:24 Artisreal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2019 00:04 Wombat_NI wrote:
On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:
I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.


Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things.

If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers.


“Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.

“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.

“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.



That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat).

Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters.

Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny.

My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion.

This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing.

I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something.

Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too.

Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous.

The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen.


A striking difference could be that Abbott gets flack because she's a black person and/or a woman,rather than because of her policies. Meaning the same reason for her getting shit upon wouldn't get a white man in trouble.

Farage gets flack because of his awful standpoints and lies.

Not sure what you had in mind about Abbott though, couldn't really find something despicable about her just now.

I picked her because she’s a lightning rod for stuff and just to illustrate certain trends, and she’s actively spoke on the topic of hostility of that kind, and left leaning media op-eds that I read on it, sprung to mind.

They’re not directly equivalent, no.

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany12017 Posts
May 23 2019 15:42 GMT
#10475
Totally fits my experience with UK bureaucracy. It seems to be designed to be specifically as annoying and hostile as possible to foreigners, including EU citizens.

I was to be in the UK for a months, and figured that i might as well spend that time working and earning a bit of money. Already had something lined up, too. Turns out that no, UK bureaucracy says that isn't possible. Well, it is possible, but i needed some UK number that allows me to work. Which would take 6 weeks to process. And required a UK adress. And the process for me to get that number needed to be started when i was in the UK. I couldn't do anything from Germany, and whenever i talked to UK bureaucrats, the second i mentioned that i was not currently in the UK, the only response to any of my question was always "It is against the law". No advice on what to do, no way to do this. I couldn't even set up the in person interview in the UK from Germany either, because that would also be " against the law". I know that we Germans are supposed to have a horrible bureaucracy, but i have never experienced anything like that here. Just rules and rules and rules with no sensible reason for them to exist except to make stuff hard for people.

So no, i am not really surprised that the UK pulled the same shit for the EU elections. They probably made it technically possible to get registered to vote, just really, really hard, and gave you no information on what you need to do to be registered. The UK is really good at weaponizing bureaucracy.

Also, pretty much any goodwill towards the UK is totally gone here nowadays. I know it is not nice, but at this point i mostly just hope that you crash and burn out of the EU so we no longer have to deal with your bullshit.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-23 15:58:13
May 23 2019 15:54 GMT
#10476
On May 24 2019 00:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2019 00:24 Artisreal wrote:
On May 24 2019 00:04 Wombat_NI wrote:
On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:
I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.


Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things.

If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers.


“Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.

“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.

“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.



That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat).

Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters.

Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny.

My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion.

This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing.

I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something.

Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too.

Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous.

The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen.


A striking difference could be that Abbott gets flack because she's a black person and/or a woman,rather than because of her policies. Meaning the same reason for her getting shit upon wouldn't get a white man in trouble.

Farage gets flack because of his awful standpoints and lies.

Not sure what you had in mind about Abbott though, couldn't really find something despicable about her just now.

I picked her because she’s a lightning rod for stuff and just to illustrate certain trends, and she’s actively spoke on the topic of hostility of that kind, and left leaning media op-eds that I read on it, sprung to mind.

They’re not directly equivalent, no.


Thank you for elaborating. I wasn't sure what you meant but that renders it clearer.
On May 24 2019 00:42 Simberto wrote:
Totally fits my experience with UK bureaucracy. It seems to be designed to be specifically as annoying and hostile as possible to foreigners, including EU citizens.

I was to be in the UK for a months, and figured that i might as well spend that time working and earning a bit of money. Already had something lined up, too. Turns out that no, UK bureaucracy says that isn't possible. Well, it is possible, but i needed some UK number that allows me to work. Which would take 6 weeks to process. And required a UK adress. And the process for me to get that number needed to be started when i was in the UK. I couldn't do anything from Germany, and whenever i talked to UK bureaucrats, the second i mentioned that i was not currently in the UK, the only response to any of my question was always "It is against the law". No advice on what to do, no way to do this. I couldn't even set up the in person interview in the UK from Germany either, because that would also be " against the law". I know that we Germans are supposed to have a horrible bureaucracy, but i have never experienced anything like that here. Just rules and rules and rules with no sensible reason for them to exist except to make stuff hard for people.

So no, i am not really surprised that the UK pulled the same shit for the EU elections. They probably made it technically possible to get registered to vote, just really, really hard, and gave you no information on what you need to do to be registered. The UK is really good at weaponizing bureaucracy.

Also, pretty much any goodwill towards the UK is totally gone here nowadays. I know it is not nice, but at this point i mostly just hope that you crash and burn out of the EU so we no longer have to deal with your bullshit.

If I remember correctly you can work without the Nr for like 3 months which is barely enough to obtain it.
also try calling Scotland, my wife's had a difficult but amicable experience with the Hotlines while attempting to obtain that fateful number
passive quaranstream fan
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany12017 Posts
May 23 2019 16:52 GMT
#10477
That problem is in the past now, i was there and didn't work due to the unobtainable number (even though as a EU citizen i should have had the right to), and am pretty much done with that now. Everyone told me that i need that number the second i start working, including the people that i would have worked for.

I pretty much have no interest in going to the UK again, so i guess the weaponized bureaucracy fulfilled its goal of keeping out us evil foreigners and keeping the UK pure.

As one can tell, i am still a bit pissed off about this experience, and i can only see the voting thing through this lense. I am pretty sure that the UK bureaucracy works like that by design. Even if they cannot prevent the EU foreigners from working in the UK while they are in the UK, they surely will make it as hard as possible for them to do so in the hopes of discouraging them from coming over. The same is happening to the act of voting right now. Simple as that. Prevent the Romanians from taking out jobs and all that jazz.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-23 18:35:20
May 23 2019 18:34 GMT
#10478
Just a wee bit cross you seem to me
passive quaranstream fan
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
May 23 2019 20:09 GMT
#10479
Just voted for the Brexit Party, hoping they hit 40%.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5872 Posts
May 23 2019 20:35 GMT
#10480
On May 24 2019 00:42 Simberto wrote:
Totally fits my experience with UK bureaucracy. It seems to be designed to be specifically as annoying and hostile as possible to foreigners, including EU citizens.


To rent a room, you need a UK-based bank account, and to get a UK-based bank account you need a UK-based address. xD
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