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On February 05 2013 02:29 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 02:23 GogoKodo wrote:On February 05 2013 02:06 Al Bundy wrote:On February 05 2013 02:01 GogoKodo wrote:On February 05 2013 01:57 Al Bundy wrote:
Gotta love the fact that we have to PAY in order to NOT watch ads. Feels like i'm in business with the Mafia here Mafia, what? They aren't going to break your kneecaps if you don't pay. This is a pretty regular way of monetizing things. Well, that's not a very honest way to do business if you ask me. Back in the days, when people wanted to avoid ads, they simply switched channels. Anyway, there are a lot of foolish people on the internet who are willing to pay for stuff they can get for free, so GLHF to twitch. It's not dishonest in any way, I'm not sure how you find anything dishonest in what they are doing. You have the whole internet at your fingertips, when an ad comes on mute it and read some teamliquid. From my perspective, they take something that's free and try to sell it. That does not sound legit. Let's be real here; the emoticons, the turbo badge, the expanded chat colors are unnecessary, shallow and superficial and definitely not worth paying for. Also what is a priority customer support? I've been watching twitch for years and I've never had the need to use their customer support.
They take something that costs them quite a bit to produce and ask money for it.
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They put the turbo button where the browse button was, GRR
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You guys are all idiots, we all demand flawless audio and video streaming, yet somehow we feel the right to also feel abused somehow that we have to god-forbid watch ads to sustain that yes things cost money to sustain, if you feel so aggrieved by having to watch ads pay the $8 and stfu.
As for streamers if they don't like the new model go ahead feel free to provide your own streaming service go out invest your own time and money in setting up servers hiring staff finding people to buy your ad space then you can have the lions share of the revenue.
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Turbo is actually a great for me, I don't have enough money to sub to multiple people i would want to support and absolutely hate adds. With adblock neither twitch or the streamer get any money cause the ad never gets played for you.
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On February 05 2013 02:36 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 02:29 Al Bundy wrote:On February 05 2013 02:23 GogoKodo wrote:On February 05 2013 02:06 Al Bundy wrote:On February 05 2013 02:01 GogoKodo wrote:On February 05 2013 01:57 Al Bundy wrote:
Gotta love the fact that we have to PAY in order to NOT watch ads. Feels like i'm in business with the Mafia here Mafia, what? They aren't going to break your kneecaps if you don't pay. This is a pretty regular way of monetizing things. Well, that's not a very honest way to do business if you ask me. Back in the days, when people wanted to avoid ads, they simply switched channels. Anyway, there are a lot of foolish people on the internet who are willing to pay for stuff they can get for free, so GLHF to twitch. It's not dishonest in any way, I'm not sure how you find anything dishonest in what they are doing. You have the whole internet at your fingertips, when an ad comes on mute it and read some teamliquid. From my perspective, they take something that's free and try to sell it. That does not sound legit. Let's be real here; the emoticons, the turbo badge, the expanded chat colors are unnecessary, shallow and superficial and definitely not worth paying for. Also what is a priority customer support? I've been watching twitch for years and I've never had the need to use their customer support. They take something that costs them quite a bit to produce and ask money for it.
That's a reasonable way to see things, I can understand that.
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On February 05 2013 02:29 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 02:23 GogoKodo wrote:On February 05 2013 02:06 Al Bundy wrote:On February 05 2013 02:01 GogoKodo wrote:On February 05 2013 01:57 Al Bundy wrote:
Gotta love the fact that we have to PAY in order to NOT watch ads. Feels like i'm in business with the Mafia here Mafia, what? They aren't going to break your kneecaps if you don't pay. This is a pretty regular way of monetizing things. Well, that's not a very honest way to do business if you ask me. Back in the days, when people wanted to avoid ads, they simply switched channels. Anyway, there are a lot of foolish people on the internet who are willing to pay for stuff they can get for free, so GLHF to twitch. It's not dishonest in any way, I'm not sure how you find anything dishonest in what they are doing. You have the whole internet at your fingertips, when an ad comes on mute it and read some teamliquid. From my perspective, they take something that's free and try to sell it. That does not sound legit. Let's be real here; the emoticons, the turbo badge, the expanded chat colors are unnecessary, shallow and superficial and definitely not worth paying for. Also what is a priority customer support? I've been watching twitch for years and I've never had the need to use their customer support.
Bandwidth is not free. Neither is supporting their streamers and viewers. I agree that I'm not looking for the emoticons, badge, chat colours etc. so Turbo isn't for me. That doesn't make it wrong for them to do, or make it wrong for anyone else to want those things.
Priority customer support is exactly what it sounds like. You're taking your singular experience (mine as well, as I've never had an issue) and applying it to everyone else. I can be 100% certain that there have been viewers on twitch that have contacted support in one way or another, and I bet you know that too.
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On February 05 2013 02:40 GogoKodo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 02:29 Al Bundy wrote:On February 05 2013 02:23 GogoKodo wrote:On February 05 2013 02:06 Al Bundy wrote:On February 05 2013 02:01 GogoKodo wrote:On February 05 2013 01:57 Al Bundy wrote:
Gotta love the fact that we have to PAY in order to NOT watch ads. Feels like i'm in business with the Mafia here Mafia, what? They aren't going to break your kneecaps if you don't pay. This is a pretty regular way of monetizing things. Well, that's not a very honest way to do business if you ask me. Back in the days, when people wanted to avoid ads, they simply switched channels. Anyway, there are a lot of foolish people on the internet who are willing to pay for stuff they can get for free, so GLHF to twitch. It's not dishonest in any way, I'm not sure how you find anything dishonest in what they are doing. You have the whole internet at your fingertips, when an ad comes on mute it and read some teamliquid. From my perspective, they take something that's free and try to sell it. That does not sound legit. Let's be real here; the emoticons, the turbo badge, the expanded chat colors are unnecessary, shallow and superficial and definitely not worth paying for. Also what is a priority customer support? I've been watching twitch for years and I've never had the need to use their customer support. Bandwidth is not free. Neither is supporting their streamers and viewers. I agree that I'm not looking for the emoticons, badge, chat colours etc. so Turbo isn't for me. That doesn't make it wrong for them to do, or make it wrong for anyone else to want those things. Priority customer support is exactly what it sounds like. You're taking your singular experience (mine as well, as I've never had an issue) and applying it to everyone else. I can be 100% certain that there have been viewers on twitch that have contacted support in one way or another, and I bet you know that too.
The free service I was referring to is the ability to disable ads. As a viewer, I can already block ads for free. But you know, the more I read this thread, the more I understand this Turbo deal. As part of the video gaming industry, Twitch is simply doing what other companies are already doing. I guess there is not point blaming them.
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On February 05 2013 02:14 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 02:07 Derez wrote:On February 05 2013 01:57 Al Bundy wrote:
Gotta love the fact that we have to PAY in order to NOT watch ads. Feels like i'm in business with the Mafia here. I'll keep using adblock, thanks. The paying isn't the issue to be honest, but paying an amount equal to a GSL subscription on a yearly basis is. I cheat twitch (and players) out of maybe 50 cents on a monthly basis by using adblock and I'm not paying 1800% of that to rectify it. Watching the ads is not gonna happen because they're all obnoxious and intrusive, so adblock it is. Have twitch make a fair offer as an alternative and I might consider it. Making a fair offer is exactly what they are doing after all you selfish fucks bitched and whined and ad blocked if you were ever subjected to the horrors of a noticeable ad. And it's still not enough. You won't consider any alternative offer. You simply want to consume the content, for free, without any inconvenience and that's what you're going to do. Luckily there are some honest people out there or the streaming industry would come crashing down. You are a leech. At least admit to it rather than trying to justify it.
Something having a price doesn't mean its a fair price. The vast majority of people don't watch enough twitch for this deal to be fair in any way; fair here being the price paid somewhat in the vicinity of the profits of the ads I'm paying to not see. Otherwise you end up with turbo-users subsidizing everyone else that uses the platform.
This is just a cheap shot at trying to get people to pay more than they should for the amount of content they consume, while feeling good about 'supporting e-sports' and just sending 90% of their subscription straight into the pockets of twitch instead of the people actually making the content. It's an exceptionally bad deal compared to subscribing for GSL, MLG, or pretty much anything else you can think of.
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I'm surprised that everyone is talking about whether it's ethical or whatever to charge people not to watch ads. I don't even understand how any of the content people disputing this watch would even exist without some sort of income....
Anyways though, a more legitimate conversation I think is about content creation. Without individual channels being incentivized through premium subscriptions, there is less impetus to create additional content, which hurts the overall viewership. If there was a way for individual watchers who purchased this turbo service to incentivize channels for providing additional content it would be win-win for everyone.
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I'm curious to see when will Twitch notice that they have absolutely no competition at the moment and that they can screw people as much as they want to..
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I'd gladly support Twitch and pay for the service (other than through ads) but only if they actually improved their services. One example would be a half decent Android app, which supports login and VODs. Or just work better than it does today.
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I'll probably buy this. I watch a lot of different streams and I HATE twitch ads, so subscribing to specific channels isn't a good option for me.
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Why is this called "Turbo"? When I saw the thread title I thought we'd get better stream connections. xD
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•Custom emoticon set: A Choice between the standard set and an all-new set of emoticons to express digital emotions
I'd rather pay for the ability to disable emoticons entirely.
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You pay 9$/month to get what you can get for free with a AdBlocker?
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On February 05 2013 01:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 01:12 FXOdesRow wrote:On February 05 2013 00:59 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
This should lead to a minor improvement in revenue for the regular channels (i.e. 99% of the player streams you watch). The channels will get paid for their ads ran to Turbo users as if the ad was actually seen. This means that if someone previous ad-blocked and now has Turbo, he will count as an ad to the regular channel.
It may be tough on subscriber channels losing some members who prefer to pay for Turbo instead. With polling done by Twitch they state that the majority of subscribers pay because they want to support the channels, and less so for the ad removal. Twitch will be able to monitor what this does to those channels, and hopefully come up with something for it if it turns out to be an issue. It would be kind of cool if you had 3 slots with $1 to give to a channel with subscribers on Twitch.
It needs to be mentioned that Twitch is massive compared to the subscriber channels, and that this is a really important move for their overall business model. It is not an evil business model at all, in fact if they had never offered channels the option to get subscribers (which they didn't need to) then everything would look entirely normal. Sometimes the right move can impact people negatively, but it is important to see things in the right perspective.
Although this isn't great for us (TSL+ had a no ads feature, plans with the player channels) I want to say that I support Twitch doing this. Before anything else; we should all want Twitch to have a healthy business model. There is no doubt this is the right choice for a company like Twitch, and hopefully that will find its way back to our scene in one way or another.
Twitch already takes 50% of the subs money. If they would take 20% I'd be okay with twitch turbo but for now they are undercutting heavily the broadcasters who at the end of the day provide the content for twitch to make money on. I agree it's good for the users and for them but what about us ? Hopefully if it turns out to impact you negatively Twitch will work on an implementation that takes care of the subscriber channels. As far as I know they're entirely open to monitoring how this plays out for your channel. Playing to peoples emotions by basically saying "subscriber channels are the broadcasters who at the end of the day provide the content for Twitch", is rather unfair to all those channels who don't have a deal like yours. The vast majority of content creators are not negatively impacted by this (in fact slightly positive impact for them). When you say "us" you are only talking about a handful of channels (most of which are financially better off than every other content creator without a subscription deal). Maybe it pushes subscriber channels to start providing content specifically for their subscribers such as giveaways, Q&A with their subs, etc, in order not to rely on users wanting to remove Twitch ads. We have subscription plans for our players too so I'm in the same boat as you there. If we do subscription channels I would like to see my players try and offer something of value to their fans that they can be happy with, created by ourselves.
I see a lot of good coming from this turbo option by twitch, mostly from this bolded portion of Nazgul's post. I subscribe currently to 3 streamers, and aside from CatZ sending random replay packs, there is nothing that these channels do to earn my subscription other than my desire for them to succeed. This isn't to say that they do nothing at all (one of them is JP, who at least seems to do plenty for his subscribers), just that what they do doesn't affect me at all, either due to the time these options (giveaways, interactions, etc) are available compared to when I am, or aren't anything I'm interested in.
With Turbo, I'm able to still give to the streamer (my ad "views" will now count) without feeling that... I don't want to say I'm being cheated because I knew what I was getting myself into, but not getting value for my money. If a streamer wants to keep my subscription, they wont be able to just hold the "you get no ads!" thing over me, they'll have to provide me something that I wouldn't get otherwise.
This will also allow the more dedicated streamers to distance themselves from the rest of the pack. A streamer who goes above and beyond to provide for their subs will earn considerably more money from those who were subscribing, or would subscribe for the ad block alone, because they're now able to entice the viewer to subscribe while having a turbo account (I'm assuming this would give them ad revenue plus subscriber revenue?). Streamers playing a couple FFA's, or ARAMs, duo queuing normal games, 4v4's, raffling off lessons, more dedicated interaction in general for their streamers can really profit from this if it's working out the way I feel it should in a perfect world.
This is in no way a bad thing, and if you're a streamer with a subscription plan already I urge you to see this as an option to take your streaming further. Especially for those gamers who make less money in tournaments and more from their streaming, taking an hour or 2 a day for subs can be even more beneficial for you. I look forward to seeing who does something great with this in the future, and giving them all my money.
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I don't understand this whole Ad Block thing... you can't sit there and watch a 20 seconds commercial once in a while to support the streamers? Or like someone mentioned, mute a commercial and do something else on the internet or even get up for a few seconds and do something outside of your pc...
why do people use Ad Block....?
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I'd rather just support the channels I watch (with subscriptions) 
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hypothetically a streamer could set up two different streams and call one "PREMIUM" where he plays adds the entire time gaining impressions while no one actually watches any adds and the other stream is his regular "commerical every 20-30 minutes" kinda deal.
#profit?
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On February 05 2013 03:16 NuKE[vZ] wrote:
I don't understand this whole Ad Block thing... you can't sit there and watch a 20 seconds commercial once in a while to support the streamers? Or like someone mentioned, mute a commercial and do something else on the internet or even get up for a few seconds and do something outside of your pc...
why do people use Ad Block....?
Because in some countries ads can be more annoying than that ?
Like the "interactive" ads (true story) where you have to clic shit in order to actually fucking END the ad.
That's really great when it's for some baby products or whatever. Great audience targetting.
Also, some ads run really poorly on lower end PCs and can make the browser freeze/crash.
I had no problem with ads at the beginning of twitch, when it was just a short low quality video thing, but when they started with the "ultra high quality" interactive ads I literally had no choice but to get adblock in order to be able to watch streams at all.
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EPT
