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On August 27 2012 01:29 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote:
I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america.
We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is.
All in all "democraZy" i love you.
Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. Cynicism is on the rise. People have trouble telling the difference between an intellectual comment and a cynical one, causing a race for the bottom where people act as if living in America and North-Korea is essentially the same.
Well i supposed u have been in NK and in America otherwise you sound as cynical as you tell me to be, on a serious note i never said NK and America was the same.
So yes cynicism is on the rise, and people who does not really know how to read too.
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On August 27 2012 01:28 arChieSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote:
I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america.
We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is.
All in all "democraZy" i love you.
Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. I am not saying it is a bad place to "live" if you stay where they want you to stay, I am saying we the people in the west accepting everything "we do for democracy" is false retarded and is facking up the world.
I'd argue that having a false freedom of speech, being the most brainwashed people and having no values except private property as a very big sign of a shitty existence. I'd also say that every single one of those points isn't true. At least in my opinion.
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Once again i never said or accused the two members for ordering people to cut down private property, Three Femen movement members are trialed for hooliganism in a church in Russia two of the members fled the country and announced new actions, ( remember the last action was illegal hence the trial and verdict). And its not me that made up the crime its the Russian law.
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On August 27 2012 01:32 arChieSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 01:29 zalz wrote:On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote:
I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america.
We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is.
All in all "democraZy" i love you.
Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. Cynicism is on the rise. People have trouble telling the difference between an intellectual comment and a cynical one, causing a race for the bottom where people act as if living in America and North-Korea is essentially the same. Well i supposed u have been in NK and in America otherwise you sound as cynical as you tell me to be, on a serious note i never said NK and America was the same. So yes cynicism is on the rise, and people who does not really know how to read too.
Where did I say that you said that? I stated "people." If I had wanted to accuse you of saying that, I would have named you.
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On August 27 2012 01:33 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 01:28 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote:
I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america.
We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is.
All in all "democraZy" i love you.
Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. I am not saying it is a bad place to "live" if you stay where they want you to stay, I am saying we the people in the west accepting everything "we do for democracy" is false retarded and is facking up the world. I'd argue that having a false freedom of speech, being the most brainwashed people and having no values except private property as a very big sign of a shitty existence. I'd also say that every single one of those points isn't true. At least in my opinion.
Thats right, if you like living like that then what can I do? I am just stating what I think, thats all, you have your oppinion and I have mine.
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On August 27 2012 01:36 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 01:32 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:29 zalz wrote:On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote:
I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america.
We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is.
All in all "democraZy" i love you.
Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. Cynicism is on the rise. People have trouble telling the difference between an intellectual comment and a cynical one, causing a race for the bottom where people act as if living in America and North-Korea is essentially the same. Well i supposed u have been in NK and in America otherwise you sound as cynical as you tell me to be, on a serious note i never said NK and America was the same. So yes cynicism is on the rise, and people who does not really know how to read too. Where did I say that you said that? I stated "people." If I had wanted to accuse you of saying that, I would have named you.
Completely irrelevant to your post, but "greater evils rarely forgive lesser evils" is an amazing quote 
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On August 27 2012 01:36 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 01:32 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:29 zalz wrote:On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote:
I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america.
We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is.
All in all "democraZy" i love you.
Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. Cynicism is on the rise. People have trouble telling the difference between an intellectual comment and a cynical one, causing a race for the bottom where people act as if living in America and North-Korea is essentially the same. Well i supposed u have been in NK and in America otherwise you sound as cynical as you tell me to be, on a serious note i never said NK and America was the same. So yes cynicism is on the rise, and people who does not really know how to read too. Where did I say that you said that? I stated "people." If I had wanted to accuse you of saying that, I would have named you.
You are quoting a quote of mine, I though that was obvious... maybe my bad or just you not wanting to accept it.
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On August 27 2012 01:37 arChieSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 01:33 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 01:28 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote:
I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america.
We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is.
All in all "democraZy" i love you.
Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. I am not saying it is a bad place to "live" if you stay where they want you to stay, I am saying we the people in the west accepting everything "we do for democracy" is false retarded and is facking up the world. I'd argue that having a false freedom of speech, being the most brainwashed people and having no values except private property as a very big sign of a shitty existence. I'd also say that every single one of those points isn't true. At least in my opinion. Thats right, if you like living like that then what can I do? I am just stating what I think, thats all, you have your oppinion and I have mine.
In a world with no freedom of speech, your original post wouldn't happen.
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Russians must be learning from Norwegian black metal bands \m/ kvlt
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On August 27 2012 01:22 Lanfire wrote:
WTF? they did nothing illegal how can they be arrested and trailed if they did nothing illegal? if your movement does illegal stuff and promote illegal activities to your members than yes im against that movement. As far as i know off VVD and PVDA doesnt promote illegal activities under their members
"If its illegal its bad!"
That logic will haunt you one day I hope you know that, one day you'll find out that laws don't always know whats right and wrong.
By the way, were you against the united states being formed or something? You know that was an entire rebellion that puts this pussy riots movement to utter shame right? Are you honestly saying that you follow the law to the dot and are against anyone that defies any law?
Reading your posts in this thread... I feel really bad for you honestly.
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On August 27 2012 01:34 Lanfire wrote:
Once again i never said or accused the two members for ordering people to cut down private property, Three Femen movement members are trialed for hooliganism in a church in Russia two of the members fled the country and announced new actions, ( remember the last action was illegal hence the trial and verdict). And its not me that made up the crime its the Russian law.
Second time you lose the red-line of the discussion. It is getting frustrating that I have to pull you back in line again.
I said this:
You seem awefully eager to accuse these women whilst nothing they did is outside the law.
This, given the context, cannot be mistaken for anyone other than the two women that fled, the women we were discussing.
You react:
WTF? they did nothing illegal how can they be arrested and trailed if they did nothing illegal? if your movement does illegal stuff and promote illegal activities to your members than yes im against that movement. As far as i know off VVD and PVDA doesnt promote illegal activities under their members
Suddenly reverting the discussion back to the three women in jail, whilst we were obviously discussing the two women abroad, who you were accusing of instigating these events, without evidence mind you.
You keep flipping back between the three in jail and the two abroad, entirely depending on which you find more suitable at the moment.
First you accused them of being responsible for the cross cutting.
I said that they can't be held responsible, because they were in jail so couldn't do it.
You clarify, stating that you mean the women that fled.
I say that they can't be held responsible because there is nothing illegal about gathering support.
You suddenly revert back to the three women in prison, saying that they did do something illegal, which has no relation to the two women abroad, who we were discussing.
I'm not sure whether your English is lacking, or whether you are intentionally distorting the debate, either way, I'm not going to let you get away with it.
Once again i never said or accused the two members for ordering people to cut down private property
This is what you said
As the head of a movement or organisation you are responsible of what your members do. The two un-arrested members are abroard recruiting new members for their movement for making new and simulair actions. But as long as they dont do these actions themself they are not responsible?
So yeah, you did say they were to be held responsible, going so far as to even call their involvement "suspicious," which is one grade below conspiracy people screaming "I'M JUST ASKING QUESTION!"
Ugh, all this effort just to keep you on track. This is beyond tiring. I shouldn't be held responsible for making sure you manage to stay on top of the ball.
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On August 27 2012 00:12 Shiragaku wrote:
Wow...their priorities are not straight. It is Putin, not Christianity that they should be after. Pussy Riot protested in a church, but it was not the Church that ruined the election.
And regardless of what you may think of religion in general, this will definitely rally Christians in Russia against atheists.
This. If you want to make a statement and change the way things are done you need friends not enemies. This is especially true in Russia. Riot not an anti-religious band? Show it by demonstrating your solidarity with others in and outside the church, not by making the people who already likely thought lowly of you even more angry.
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On August 27 2012 01:41 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 01:37 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:33 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 01:28 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote:
I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america.
We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is.
All in all "democraZy" i love you.
Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. I am not saying it is a bad place to "live" if you stay where they want you to stay, I am saying we the people in the west accepting everything "we do for democracy" is false retarded and is facking up the world. I'd argue that having a false freedom of speech, being the most brainwashed people and having no values except private property as a very big sign of a shitty existence. I'd also say that every single one of those points isn't true. At least in my opinion. Thats right, if you like living like that then what can I do? I am just stating what I think, thats all, you have your oppinion and I have mine. In a world with no freedom of speech, your original post wouldn't happen.
Why? is my post going to change anything? no it is not, the freedom of speech has been denied in form of murder in this system, only great men with great information is silenced, not a man in a forum being mr.captain obvious (me).
I am a sheep as much as you are, It is just that I know I am a sheep.
Edit: Wikileaks could be given as an example but I dont even know if thats true or just a bunch of bullshit that did not affect the USA in any way.
Edit2: In the esential freedom of speech you get knocked when you say what you think in public (having some power) and get instant owned by the media, that did never happen... right? 
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On August 27 2012 01:45 arChieSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 01:41 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 01:37 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:33 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 01:28 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote:
I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america.
We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is.
All in all "democraZy" i love you.
Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. I am not saying it is a bad place to "live" if you stay where they want you to stay, I am saying we the people in the west accepting everything "we do for democracy" is false retarded and is facking up the world. I'd argue that having a false freedom of speech, being the most brainwashed people and having no values except private property as a very big sign of a shitty existence. I'd also say that every single one of those points isn't true. At least in my opinion. Thats right, if you like living like that then what can I do? I am just stating what I think, thats all, you have your oppinion and I have mine. In a world with no freedom of speech, your original post wouldn't happen. Why? is my post going to change anything? no it is not, the freedom of speech has been denied in form of murder in this system, only great men with great information is silenced, not a man in a forum being mr.captain obvious (me). I am a sheep as much as you are, It is just that I know I am a sheep. Edit: Wikileaks could be given as an example but I dont even know if thats true or just a bunch of bullshit that did not affect the USA in any way.
The persecution of wikileaks is a crime against the freedom of speech. Afaik wikileaks is unique, and it only exists in the west. In any event, you did say you disagreed with me and I do respect that.
The last I really want to say on this is really a comparison. Try comparing China's access to information and America's.
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IF they ordered there members to cut down crosses than yes they are responsible. But being suspicous that they did order or not its not the same as accusation.
They are however part of an organisation that promotes illegal activtities so i do accuse the two that fled of promoting illegal activities under their members. If the cross cutting is part of that activitie i of course dont know.
This is indeed what i said;
As the head of a movement or organisation you are responsible of what your members do. The two un-arrested members are abroard recruiting new members for their movement for making new and simulair actions. But as long as they dont do these actions themself they are not responsible?
But i dont see where you read that they are responsible for the cross cutting. So dont say you clearly say that they are responsible when i say, That as the head of a movement you are responsible of what your members do that does not implicate that they did the cross cutting
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On August 27 2012 01:56 Lanfire wrote:
IF they ordered there members to cut down crosses than yes they are responsible. But being suspicous that they did order or not its not the same as accusation.
They are however part of an organisation that promotes illegal activtities so i do accuse the two that fled of promoting illegal activities under their members. If the cross cutting is part of that activitie i of course dont know.
You're just not getting it. Dude, you're going to wear Zalz fingers off from him trying to help you understand this.
Or maybe you do completely understand it and you're STILL just trying to justify your baseless hate against these people.
Sigh... people could really learn if they could learn to admit they're wrong in the first place...
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On August 27 2012 00:04 zalz wrote:The destruction of private property is wrong. The imprisonment of individuals for expressing their opinions on the church and politics is even worse, but greater evils rarely forgive lesser evils. I can't say that I would take part in this kind of protests, but they are somewhat inevitable outbursts when you deny people the proper channels to protest. Regardless, I like that the punk-movement seems to be getting its teeth back. Giving a bigger finger to the man is always fun to see, especially in a country like Russia that needs a good dose of sense beaten into it. Show nested quote +Lanfire
This really shows that the Pussy Riot "hooliganism" and their feminism movement was indeed a hate crime against religion No it doesn't. Pussy Riot is in jail, so they cannot possibly have committed this act. Or are you suggesting that the actions of others may be piled on them?
Hence why he said their movement?
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On August 27 2012 01:47 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 01:45 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:41 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 01:37 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:33 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 01:28 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote:
I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america.
We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is.
All in all "democraZy" i love you.
Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. I am not saying it is a bad place to "live" if you stay where they want you to stay, I am saying we the people in the west accepting everything "we do for democracy" is false retarded and is facking up the world. I'd argue that having a false freedom of speech, being the most brainwashed people and having no values except private property as a very big sign of a shitty existence. I'd also say that every single one of those points isn't true. At least in my opinion. Thats right, if you like living like that then what can I do? I am just stating what I think, thats all, you have your oppinion and I have mine. In a world with no freedom of speech, your original post wouldn't happen. Why? is my post going to change anything? no it is not, the freedom of speech has been denied in form of murder in this system, only great men with great information is silenced, not a man in a forum being mr.captain obvious (me). I am a sheep as much as you are, It is just that I know I am a sheep. Edit: Wikileaks could be given as an example but I dont even know if thats true or just a bunch of bullshit that did not affect the USA in any way. The persecution of wikileaks is a crime against the freedom of speech. Afaik wikileaks is unique, and it only exists in the west. In any event, you did say you disagreed with me and I do respect that. The last I really want to say on this is really a comparison. Try comparing China's access to information and America's.
Having more information is important, but that does not mean you gonna have more freedom for having more information neither your people is going to be more educated, even more when it is useless information, anyways I am not defending the Chinise position on the internet censure becouse It is a shame.
The western is always talking about how much information we have and how usefull It is but the fact is that we are not more educated people than 15 or 20 years ago, when we did not even have 30% of that information to our disposition, an example on this can be found at the "education ranking" countrys like Cuba, Armenia, Barbados, Slovenia and 16 other countrys are higher ranked than the bench mark of the west (USA), what is the reason for such a country to have the best military by far a very strong political and economy power and not even top20 in the worlds educated countrys?
In my honest oppinon its hard to belive that this country has no mechanism to change that and give a better education.
I am going to stop posting this already if we feel to reply each other lets just talk on pm because this is offtopic already :S sorry to the OP.
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Even if I'm not a true orthodox christian (more like having a neutral stance regarding religion, tho I was born and christened under orthodox religion ) I do not agree with such acts, defiling monuments no matter what they represent is an act of hooliganism. On the other hand we have the convicted Pussy Riots that criticized current Russian president, doesn't matter how or where, but they did it and got punished. I guess Russia is hundreds of years behind the rest of the world when speaking about democracy (speaking for myself, where I live, things aren't so beautiful , yet we do not throw in jail everyone that expresses their opinion against current power)
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You're just not getting it. Dude, you're going to wear Zalz fingers off from him trying to help you understand this.
Or maybe you do completely understand it and you're STILL just trying to justify your baseless hate against these people.
Sigh... people could really learn if they could learn to admit they're wrong in the first place...
I dont hate PR i dont even know them and never heard any song of them, i just dont agree with their political ideas.
And when there political ideas involves illegal activities like hooliganism in a church i think they should get punished just as the law describes. And thankfully they did get punished.
I really dont care if someones political few is to burn down churches but the difference between a few and actually doing it is something else for that matter.
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EPT
