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On August 27 2012 02:07 arChieSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 01:47 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 01:45 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:41 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 01:37 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:33 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 01:28 arChieSC2 wrote:On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote:
I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america.
We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is.
All in all "democraZy" i love you.
Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. I am not saying it is a bad place to "live" if you stay where they want you to stay, I am saying we the people in the west accepting everything "we do for democracy" is false retarded and is facking up the world. I'd argue that having a false freedom of speech, being the most brainwashed people and having no values except private property as a very big sign of a shitty existence. I'd also say that every single one of those points isn't true. At least in my opinion. Thats right, if you like living like that then what can I do? I am just stating what I think, thats all, you have your oppinion and I have mine. In a world with no freedom of speech, your original post wouldn't happen. Why? is my post going to change anything? no it is not, the freedom of speech has been denied in form of murder in this system, only great men with great information is silenced, not a man in a forum being mr.captain obvious (me). I am a sheep as much as you are, It is just that I know I am a sheep. Edit: Wikileaks could be given as an example but I dont even know if thats true or just a bunch of bullshit that did not affect the USA in any way. The persecution of wikileaks is a crime against the freedom of speech. Afaik wikileaks is unique, and it only exists in the west. In any event, you did say you disagreed with me and I do respect that. The last I really want to say on this is really a comparison. Try comparing China's access to information and America's. Having more information is important, but that does not mean you gonna have more freedom for having more information neither your people is going to be more educated, even more when it is useless information, anyways I am not defending the Chinise position on the internet censure becouse It is a shame, the western is always talking about how much information we have and how usefull It is but the fact is that we are not more educated people than 15 or 20 years ago, when we did not even have 30% of that information to our disposition, an example on this can be found at the "education ranking" countrys like Cuba, Armenia, Barbados, Slovenia and 16 other countrys are higher ranked than the bench mark of the west (USA), what is the reason for such a country to have the best military by far a very strong political and economy power and not even top20 in the worlds educated countrys? In my honest oppinon its hard to belive that this country has no mechanism to change that and give a better education. I am going to stop posting this already if we feel to reply each other lets just talk on pm because this is offtopic already :S sorry to the OP.
I wouldn't feel too bad, the op is somehow posting from North Korea. That said coming from Australia the only thing that seems to be missing from society is good internet system :p. It's actually quite impressive that america is quite low on the list in education (relative to how powerful they are). But your right this is the last I'm going to post about this matter.
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Religion in Russia is just as much politics
The Russian curch is thoroughly corrupt and despicable. There should be a war on it.
The protests doesn´t even have to be about Putin, the church is reason enough.
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On August 27 2012 02:07 iiGreetings wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 00:04 zalz wrote:The destruction of private property is wrong. The imprisonment of individuals for expressing their opinions on the church and politics is even worse, but greater evils rarely forgive lesser evils. I can't say that I would take part in this kind of protests, but they are somewhat inevitable outbursts when you deny people the proper channels to protest. Regardless, I like that the punk-movement seems to be getting its teeth back. Giving a bigger finger to the man is always fun to see, especially in a country like Russia that needs a good dose of sense beaten into it. Lanfire
This really shows that the Pussy Riot "hooliganism" and their feminism movement was indeed a hate crime against religion No it doesn't. Pussy Riot is in jail, so they cannot possibly have committed this act. Or are you suggesting that the actions of others may be piled on them? Hence why he said their movement?
The Pussy Riot hooliganism and their feminism movement.
And makes the distinction between the two, the word hooliganism is used to refer to going on stage.
But at this point it is obvious that he is either intentionally distrupting the discussion, or he has so entirely lost track that it will take a dozen posts just to make him understand where he went off the deep-end.
Either way, the discussion is dead, as so often the case on TL, a result of childish semantics.
Twice I had to point out where he tried to steer the discussion off the cliff. I'm not going to do it a third time, and he seems intent on steering it off the cliff. It isn't my job to baby sit both sides of the discussion.
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War on religion? not a good idea. Seperation of church and state thats the important thing here.
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4 crosses... Alert me when it is 40 thousand and churches are going up in flames.
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I think we need to remember that it's 4 crosses. Inanimate objects. Nobody was hurt.
Lets not throw away our sensibilities in the name of religion and turn into islamist-style extremists.
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Well, some people have decided to escalate things a bit. Wonder if the pressure will keep rising or if we'll see a drop down again. It really depends on how strict the government backlash against the hooligans is.
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On August 27 2012 00:12 Shiragaku wrote:
Wow...their priorities are not straight. It is Putin, not Christianity that they should be after. Pussy Riot protested in a church, but it was not the Church that ruined the election.
And regardless of what you may think of religion in general, this will definitely rally Christians in Russia against atheists.
Except for the fact that the Orthodox Church in Russia is extremely cozy with the Putin regime, and validates it. If you're gonna oppose Putin and his government, you're sooner or later going to have to run into the Orthodox Church there.
While the means are questionable, I definitely approve of the underlying intention of communicating people's dissatisfaction with the church there.
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As much as I dislike religion, and their public expressions, and as much as I think that its evils should be fought, I do not approve of vanadalizing private property in this manner. Fortunately only a couple of relatively unimportant crosses have been destroyed, I hope this will not escalate.
Maybe some good can come of this if this sparks some debate about reform in Russia.
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On August 27 2012 03:27 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 00:12 Shiragaku wrote:
Wow...their priorities are not straight. It is Putin, not Christianity that they should be after. Pussy Riot protested in a church, but it was not the Church that ruined the election.
And regardless of what you may think of religion in general, this will definitely rally Christians in Russia against atheists. Except for the fact that the Orthodox Church in Russia is extremely cozy with the Putin regime, and validates it. If you're gonna oppose Putin and his government, you're sooner or later going to have to run into the Orthodox Church there. While the means are questionable, I definitely approve of the underlying intention of communicating people's dissatisfaction with the church there.
BREAKING: Four Google offices are vandalised after stating support for gays.
Comments from the news piece reads:
"Except for the fact that the lgbt movement in US is extremely cozy with the Obama regime, and validates it. If you're gonna oppose Obama and his government, you're sooner or later going to have to run into the lgbt movement there
While the means are questionable, I definitely approve of the underlying intention of communicating people's dissatisfaction with the gays there."
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Israel1530 Posts
On August 27 2012 00:04 zalz wrote:The destruction of private property is wrong. The imprisonment of individuals for expressing their opinions on the church and politics is even worse, but greater evils rarely forgive lesser evils. I can't say that I would take part in this kind of protests, but they are somewhat inevitable outbursts when you deny people the proper channels to protest. Regardless, I like that the punk-movement seems to be getting its teeth back. Giving a bigger finger to the man is always fun to see, especially in a country like Russia that needs a good dose of sense beaten into it. Show nested quote +Lanfire
This really shows that the Pussy Riot "hooliganism" and their feminism movement was indeed a hate crime against religion No it doesn't. Pussy Riot is in jail, so they cannot possibly have committed this act. Or are you suggesting that the actions of others may be piled on them?
Not to mention, it could've been orchestrated by the Russian Government to get stricter hold of it's people/ConspiracyKeanu
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Femen is a very misled movement making money off feminist activism(which in my opinion should be against capital, as consumerism is a tool used to maintain women in a certain way) but Pussy Riot needs to be free so the voices of the oppressed are heard. The riots must continue. And there is no such thing as a legitimate protest or a unlegitimate protest just because they've wrecked some shit, suffering has gone unnoticed too long for some people and they will wreck shit until they are heard.
On August 27 2012 04:06 InRaged wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 03:27 Zato-1 wrote:On August 27 2012 00:12 Shiragaku wrote:
Wow...their priorities are not straight. It is Putin, not Christianity that they should be after. Pussy Riot protested in a church, but it was not the Church that ruined the election.
And regardless of what you may think of religion in general, this will definitely rally Christians in Russia against atheists. Except for the fact that the Orthodox Church in Russia is extremely cozy with the Putin regime, and validates it. If you're gonna oppose Putin and his government, you're sooner or later going to have to run into the Orthodox Church there. While the means are questionable, I definitely approve of the underlying intention of communicating people's dissatisfaction with the church there. BREAKING: Four Google offices are vandalised after stating support for gays. Comments from the news piece reads: "Except for the fact that the lgbt movement in US is extremely cozy with the Obama regime, and validates it. If you're gonna oppose Obama and his government, you're sooner or later going to have to run into the lgbt movement there While the means are questionable, I definitely approve of the underlying intention of communicating people's dissatisfaction with the gays there."
This makes no sense whatsoever. I can guarantee you this: the kind of activism from Pussy Riot would never support an economical neoliberalist like Obama.
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Israel1530 Posts
On August 27 2012 03:21 gnatinator wrote:
I think we need to remember that it's 4 crosses. Inanimate objects. Nobody was hurt.
Lets not throw away our sensibilities in the name of religion and turn into islamist-style extremists.
I think ew need to remember that it's just a one day ban on Jewish stores, not even on all of them, nobody was hurt.
The fact that no one got hurt, doesn't mean that it won't escelate.
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Russian Federation748 Posts
In Soviet Russia, cross bows before you !
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Religion shouldn't exist
The only religion that should exist is Buddhism because it is (one of) the only religion(s) where you actually work to promote happiness & prosperity. Religions like Christianity just try to create a model society by shunning away people they consider to be unfit for said model society. I don't understand how Christians don't realize by now that they are straying further and further every day from what 'God' supposedly would want. Religion just spreads hatred. It doesn't ultimately spread peace, happiness, or well-being. As someone who was born Christian, I gave up my religion after seeing the abomination that Christianity has become today. I don't understand how Christians spread god's word by ostracizing homosexuals, shitting on other religions, protecting priests from prosecution after molesting boys, and a bunch of other retarded shit.
Also, the shit Christians say...
I could write a book on it...
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trustfund kids feel obligated to change the world through futile means. i'll admit that they shouldn't be jailed for 2 years, but the idea that you are going to protest in russia... it's not a good one. nor a particularly effective one throughout history, assuming your goal is to not be shot without justification.
the problem with things like this is that powerless people feel obligated to act before they can formulate an effective response to injustice. they then try to milk public sympathy to make up for their poor foresight.
i have no doubt a perticular group of angsty teenagers will try to make this into a holy war, when it is not. some kids ran into a church and started acting like kids... the reaction was overblown... in russia...
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On August 27 2012 00:13 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 00:12 Shiragaku wrote:
Wow...their priorities are not straight. It is Putin, not Christianity that they should be after. Pussy Riot protested in a church, but it was not the Church that ruined the election. In Soviet Russia, Putin has more power than God.
even I have more power than "God"
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In the words of Rodney King " Can...can't we all j-j-just get along?" The world is to small of a place for everyone to have their own little corner.
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On August 27 2012 04:33 RageBot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 03:21 gnatinator wrote:
I think we need to remember that it's 4 crosses. Inanimate objects. Nobody was hurt.
Lets not throw away our sensibilities in the name of religion and turn into islamist-style extremists. I think ew need to remember that it's just a one day ban on Jewish stores, not even on all of them, nobody was hurt. The fact that no one got hurt, doesn't mean that it won't escelate.
Please get out with this "argument". Did you really just pull a Nazi Germany on 4 crosses being chopped down?
"God, one day, people in Russia will want a more free society, and before you know it we will be gassing Jews."
Honestly, its one big slippery slope argument got there, 4 crosses being vandalised will not result in Christians being lined up in the streets and shot.
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On August 27 2012 04:49 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 00:13 RockIronrod wrote:On August 27 2012 00:12 Shiragaku wrote:
Wow...their priorities are not straight. It is Putin, not Christianity that they should be after. Pussy Riot protested in a church, but it was not the Church that ruined the election. In Soviet Russia, Putin has more power than God. even I have more power than "God"
Speaking of semantics derailing threads, what a ridiculous statement. Whether or not "God" exists, a debate that is irrelevant to the topic at hand, it's undeniable how much power the idea holds. In fact, one of the main points of antitheism is the irrational delegation of authority that religion allows for.
Regarding the original topic, vandalising crosses is not only exercising censorship but also constitutes hate crime.
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EPT
