EPTCrosses chopped in Russia - Page 3
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Lanfire
Netherlands151 Posts
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plated.rawr
Norway1676 Posts
On August 27 2012 00:57 darthfoley wrote: So you can burn churches down...unless they're old? Correct. Old buildings are monuments of history. New buildings are easilly replaced. I don't give two tosses about its religious symbolic value. I care about history. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On August 27 2012 00:58 ecstatica wrote: Church needs Putin, not the opposite. Church sees him as a long-term investment, therefore they publicly voiced support during the election. Putin will flirt with the church, since it's extra votes from zealots plus majority of population technically is orthodox, but he is not commiting anywhere in a big way. So what do you define as "commiting in a big way"? Getting a cross tattoo on his forehead? | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 27 2012 00:33 Shiragaku wrote: Well from what I saw, it just shows the priests are rich corrupt bastards. I am more curious about the Putin-Church connection. Here's a nice article that summarizes the relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church and Putin: http://chinamatters.blogspot.com/2012/08/church-state-party-girdles-and-pussy.html TLDR: The vast majority of Church funding comes from the St. Andrew Foundation, a Russian nonprofit headed by Vladimir Yakunin, who, like Putin, is a veteran of the KGB First Chief Directorate (Foreign Intelligence). The money comes from Russian Railways, who Yakunin heads, and Gazprom which is a general piggy bank for the Russian government. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On August 27 2012 00:58 Lanfire wrote: As the head of a movement or organisation you are responsible of what your members do. The two un-arrested members are abroard recruiting new members for their movement for making new and simulair actions. But as long as they dont these actions themself they are not responsible? I don't recall them directly calling on their followers to chop down crosses, nor recruiting people to make "new and similar" actions. Perhaps you can provide a link that shows this? I'm sure everyone in this topic would like to see evidence for such explosive facts. | ||
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Kojak21
Canada1104 Posts
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ecstatica
United States542 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:00 zalz wrote: So what do you define as "commiting in a big way"? Getting a cross tattoo on his forehead? Maybe publicly admitting to being a christian? Going to church outside of major religious state events? I don't even think he ever mentioned believing in god. | ||
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Lanfire
Netherlands151 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:03 zalz wrote: I don't recall them directly calling on their followers to chop down crosses, nor recruiting people to make "new and similar" actions. Perhaps you can provide a link that shows this? I'm sure everyone in this topic would like to see evidence for such explosive facts. "“In regard to the pursuit, two of our members have successfully fled the country! They are recruiting foreign feminists to prepare new actions!,” a Twitter account called Pussy Riot Group said." Which was in the source i mentioned earlier. http://www.euronews.com/newswires/1636062-pussy-riot-says-two-members-flee-russia/ if the chopping down crosses was part of the new actions cant say 100%, suspicious yes | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:11 Lanfire wrote: "“In regard to the pursuit, two of our members have successfully fled the country! They are recruiting foreign feminists to prepare new actions!,” a Twitter account called Pussy Riot Group said." Which was in the source i mentioned earlier. http://www.euronews.com/newswires/1636062-pussy-riot-says-two-members-flee-russia/ if the chopping down crosses was part of the new actions cant say 100%, suspicious yes Ooh, so now you think it is "suspecious" for them to try and garner support for their movement... Suspecious political movements, always trying to get people to support them... You want to file a police report to have the VVD and the PVDA arrested? Last week I saw them on TV, trying to gather followers, and I just walked through Leiden's shopping street and saw a VVD-supported political event, handing out leaflets and yelling party-slogans. Straight to jail! You seem awefully eager to accuse these women whilst nothing they did is outside the law. Just because you don't agree with a group doesn't mean you can claim they are responsible for actions they have no involvement in, or suggest that they are acting illegally whilst doing nothing illegal. if the chopping down crosses was part of the new actions cant say 100%, suspicious yes Ooh, and for this part, no, it isn't suspicious. Just cause you made up a connection doesn't make it suspicious. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:17 zalz wrote: Ooh, so now you think it is "suspecious" for them to try and garner support for their movement... Suspecious political movements, always trying to get people to support them... You want to file a police report to have the VVD and the PVDA arrested? Last week I saw them on TV, trying to gather followers, and I just walked through Leiden's shopping street and saw a VVD-supported political event, handing out leaflets and yelling party-slogans. Straight to jail! You seem awefully eager to accuse these women whilst nothing they did is outside the law. Just because you don't agree with a group doesn't mean you can claim they are responsible for actions they have no involvement in, or suggest that they are acting illegally whilst doing nothing illegal. Zalz, what do you think about my post on the link between Putin and the Church? | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:17 Shady Sands wrote: Zalz, what do you think about my post on the link between Putin and the Church? I think it is a good insight into the inner workings of the relationship between the Putin government and the Orthodox church, and I think everyone should read it, especially people that try to brush off the relationship that these two groups have. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
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Lanfire
Netherlands151 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 27 2012 00:38 arChieSC2 wrote: I hate everyone saying people oppresed this, in that type of countrys that, and most of the comments come from people from europe and america. We are the most brain washed people in the planet (well maybe nk..), we defend private property before life, we do nothing when our govenments join in wars we dont want them to go, we get constantly lied and when we realize that all we say is "well i dont really care, i knew that, or in other countrys that is worse" the fact is that the media and afine governments are just telling you how evil the rest of the world is and how good "our" system is. All in all "democraZy" i love you. Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:22 Lanfire wrote: WTF? they did nothing illegal how can they be arrested and trailed if they did nothing illegal? if your movement does illegal stuff and promote illegal activities to your members than yes im against that movement. As far as i know off VVD and PVDA doesnt promote illegal activities under their members Leaving Russia, for now, is not illegal. Trying to build up support for a movement, is not illegal. Tell me what did these 2 girls of Pussy Riot that fled Russia do that was illegal? Other than your completely fabricated accusation that they ordered people to chop down private property. Made-up crimes do not constitute illegal behaviour, and you only make a fool out of yourself by continueing your fanatical witch-hunt against crimes that you made up in the first place. | ||
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arChieSC2
Spain162 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote: Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. I am not saying it is a bad place to "live" if you stay where they want you to stay, I am saying we the people in the west accepting everything "we do for democracy" is false retarded and is facking up the world. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On August 27 2012 01:24 bo1b wrote: Why on earth do so many people believe the west is such a bad place to live in? It makes very little sense to me. Cynicism is on the rise. People have trouble telling the difference between an intellectual comment and a cynical one, causing a race for the bottom where people act as if living in America and North-Korea is essentially the same. | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On August 27 2012 00:12 Shiragaku wrote: Wow...their priorities are not straight. It is Putin, not Christianity that they should be after. Pussy Riot protested in a church, but it was not the Church that ruined the election. And regardless of what you may think of religion in general, this will definitely rally Christians in Russia against atheists. I didn't know that not believing in Christianity = Atheist. I also like how if someone who is an Atheist does a hate crime = all Atheists labeled by religious groups, but when you have groups like the Westboro Baptist Church, they don't count towards the other Christians. | ||
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darthfoley
United States8004 Posts
On August 27 2012 00:59 plated.rawr wrote: Correct. Old buildings are monuments of history. New buildings are easilly replaced. I don't give two tosses about its religious symbolic value. I care about history. Sorry, but I think that's a pretty dumb position to have. | ||
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